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Old 02-27-2016, 02:33 AM   #101
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I have no words for JH's arrogance. I'd put up an WGO manual anyday to one of his. Oh yeah, some of his products don't even ship with one.

Oh, and funny my lowly Travato didn't need a "shake-out". Everything has worked perfectly from day one. Same with the other two I've owned. How quaint that a new RV should need immediate dealer repairs. How 20th century of them.

This Hymer deal I'm afraid is hitting at what I think is the peak of the RV market. The industry is cyclical and we will soon be on the downward slope again if the economy tightens, which I think will happen after the election. Then we'll see how much patience Hymer will have with management after what will probably be typical RT bumpy roll-outs and prices that can't go low enough to compete with the likes of WGO. Who can go MUCH lower, BTW, than what they are charging now.
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Old 02-27-2016, 02:49 AM   #102
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JH doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut, but if he is to survive, I think he better learn. His rants, bragging, insults of criticizers, etc, have been proved wrong and nasty time and time again, but he still does it again. I can't imagine Hymer putting up with it for long.

I think the lid will go on the bad roll outs, and crappy service pretty quickly. We heard of improved call back times even before the announcement.

I would think your worst nightmare would be to be running Roadtrek customer service, with a callback list that is weeks behind, and a section of "troublemaker" customers that you aren't ever going to call, and then hear that the company has been sold, and the Hymer head of customer service is coming in to go over your policies, tomorrow
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Old 02-27-2016, 02:54 AM   #103
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Have any of the Roadtrek "consultants" piped up on any of this, or their status?
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Old 02-27-2016, 03:09 AM   #104
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Have any of the Roadtrek "consultants" piped up on any of this, or their status?
Consultants....LOL. That's a good one
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Old 02-27-2016, 04:36 AM   #105
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I better not say anything. By now I suspect Campskunk has a picture of me wearing a Roadtrek watch cap.
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Old 02-27-2016, 01:38 PM   #106
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I think you will be disappointed if you are hoping for Hymer to quickly sweep out any of the management of Roadtrek. I don't see anything in the way that Hymer does business that doesn't indicate that there will be a very long period where they will be working to align everyone with their corporate culture and way of doing business. Hymer was returned to family control a few years ago and they seem to me to be just about the perfect answer for long term stability for the people in Kitchener after the ownership by the investment group.

Will some people leave on their own as a result of the change? Seems to happen every time things change...

Will others leave at some point if they don't adapt to the new environment? May happen, of course, but I sure would not expect it anytime soon...

I suggest you come back in a year and see what has happened at Erwin Hymer Group North America (might as well get used to the new name, but hopefully they will come up with a standard shortened version), you might be surprised how things can change...
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Old 02-27-2016, 02:12 PM   #107
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At the the very beginning of this discussion, I said I thought that it would be 6-12 months before Hymer would do anything much in the management ranks, and still do. That, of course, doesn't mean folks wouldn't leave on their own if see things not going their way.

Harsh house cleaning immediately is not a good acquisition strategy, and I am sure Hymer has done enough of it to know it.

I would imagine it will become pretty evident that JH's swashbuckling, abrasive, aggressive, style was much more compatible with the investment group's goal of making a splash, getting noticed, and building short term value, than it would fit with a more long term, friendly, value building, strategy. Hopefully, for all the folks that are involved, Hymer will be the friendly long term thinkers.
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Old 02-27-2016, 02:32 PM   #108
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You would be surprised how people change when these types of things happen. When Alan Mulally was brought into Ford from Boeing there were plenty of people who very quickly changed from their old behaviors that had been working fine for them under the old culture to very different behaviors under the new culture. Of course, there were plenty who got the opportunity to depart because they wouldn't change and plenty left on their own because they didn't see a future in the new significantly streamlined management structure.
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Old 02-28-2016, 12:26 AM   #109
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I would agree that nothing much will change personnel wise for a while. In my dealings with the Germans, they are very results oriented. They'll have metrics for output and profitability and other goals that they'll use to judge the management teams effectiveness. Meet those and I doubt they care about how much of an ass JH is.

For the workers, they need all the hands they can get to increase production as much as they are implying they are. So I think the workforce could have a bright future if they are willing to follow the way the German's want to do things.
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Old 02-28-2016, 04:56 PM   #110
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First statement I have seen on the big Facebook group from the Roadtrek CEO regarding the focus of the brand under the new ownership...

Jim Hammill

Also it's important to remember I remain the CEO of Roadtrek and I do not intend to change that. There will be no changes except improvements in product and quality and customer service. We can always be better. Issues are opportunities
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Old 02-28-2016, 05:00 PM   #111
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First statement I have seen on the big Facebook group from the Roadtrek CEO regarding the focus of the brand under the new ownership...

Jim Hammill

Also it's important to remember I remain the CEO of Roadtrek and I do not intend to change that. There will be no changes except improvements in product and quality and customer service. We can always be better. Issues are opportunities
What a bummer message that is.
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Old 02-28-2016, 05:42 PM   #112
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I wonder sometimes what Jim did to generate such love here. Did he stop by at your houses and piss on your lawns? His less than civil behavior and rude statements in many occasions seem no worse than what I see here regularly. In fact, there are a few personalities here who I find to be in the same mold as the several Roadtrek characters who are so reviled here. I realize that, in some cases, opinions are unlikely to change no matter what happens, but golly gee, maybe it's time to move on...

Life seems too short to focus on the past, at least for me...

Clearly, this is just my opinion on this
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Old 02-28-2016, 08:19 PM   #113
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I wonder sometimes what Jim did to generate such love here. Did he stop by at your houses and piss on your lawns? His less than civil behavior and rude statements in many occasions seem no worse than what I see here regularly. In fact, there are a few personalities here who I find to be in the same mold as the several Roadtrek characters who are so reviled here. I realize that, in some cases, opinions are unlikely to change no matter what happens, but golly gee, maybe it's time to move on...

Life seems too short to focus on the past, at least for me...

Clearly, this is just my opinion on this
I think it all started back with the etrek early claims of run times, charging times, etc that were obviously violating the laws of physics. JH took it very personally if anyone asked how they got those claims, and he took it very personally. He even went on some of the boards calling anyone who questioned the claims some very vile stuff, and then sent out the attack dogs to go after anything and anybody that questioned Roadtrek. It escalated when folks started to get banned from the Facebook site and attacked there.

It is a shame, as it certainly didn't need to be that way. There never was an explanation from him how after numerous spec changes and rewrites, the etrek specs wound up right where the questioners said they would be. It all repeated itself to a large extent with the latest new product issues, and the way some customers got treated.

A post like he put up sounds like someone who is hearing footsteps, and there must be a lot of other places than here speculating on the future of Roadtrek management. Obviously he knows that Roadtrek was remiss in quality and customer service, or he wouln't have mentioned that as prime issues which are probably right on the top of Hymer's to do list.
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Old 02-28-2016, 08:33 PM   #114
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I wonder sometimes what Jim did to generate such love here. Did he stop by at your houses and piss on your lawns? His less than civil behavior and rude statements in many occasions seem no worse than what I see here regularly. In fact, there are a few personalities here who I find to be in the same mold as the several Roadtrek characters who are so reviled here. I realize that, in some cases, opinions are unlikely to change no matter what happens, but golly gee, maybe it's time to move on...

Life seems too short to focus on the past, at least for me...

Clearly, this is just my opinion on this
'Mergers of Equals' are very difficult as each partner is testing the way forward and wants to retain a level of autonomy.

100% Acquisition by a Goliath once completed must be overwhelming. Jim H. is feeling the stings from all directions. People calling out his past missteps, others asking Hymer to do what Jim was unable to do (given the size of Roadtrek), and loss of freedom to command the Roadtrek ship without scrutiny from above.

This is just the beginning. If / When Hymer has meetings in which he is not included, it is natural to feel excluded and believe you are being excluded from the future.

Finally, heaven forbid the Roadtrek division has falling sales or increased warranty claims. Jim will be asked to answer and explain to seasoned RV peers and not investment gurus.

Best of luck. J.H.
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Old 02-28-2016, 09:20 PM   #115
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I am aware of all the stuff that has happened in the past with Jim and the several other Roadtrek related personalities having seen him in action and having been kicked off Mike's group for trying to be humerous here and having it reported to Mike by whatever his name is these days for no apparent purpose other than getting me banned. For me, at this point, with the new deal, rehashing the past is getting tiring, I am wiping the slate clean and looking forward to see how things play out...
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Old 02-28-2016, 11:15 PM   #116
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"I remain the CEO of Roadtrek and I do not intend to change that." J. Hammill

That quote, Ladies and Gentlemen, comes from a Man who clearly knows his days are numbered.

Just a few observations...In my humble opinion, a satisfied owner of a 05 210.

1. CEO of Roadtrek?...No Jim, you are the CEO of the E. Hymer Group of North America, as clearly stated in the Press Release.

2. "I do not intend to change that." Well Jim, the power to name a new CEO belongs to someone else, which will be done in due time.


Why the lack of love for JH?


For starters, all the reasons Booster mentioned. In the end, all of us "Armchair Enginners" were proven correct. All of the missteps with the premature release of "new" Technology that RT truly did not understand. All of the deliberately deceiving information that RT continues to put out. Just one shining example...All of the info on the Zion refers to the single "400 Amp" standard battery. That would be great. If it were true. In fact, the battery is less than 200 Amps. RT has had plenty of time to correct that claim and new Customers continue to buy Zions, blissfully unaware of the deception. The smaller than Spec grey water tanks installed on some Sprinters, the issues with Ecotrek, Voltrek and on and on. All on JH's watch...

As recently as three weeks ago, I stood inside a brand new 210, trying to justify spending $100K+ to replace what I have now. Sorry, not going to happen. Not right now anyway. I'll stay on the sidelines and watch things play out. If and when the dust settles and the product hopefully improves, then I'll pull the trigger.

In the meantime, I'll continue to read the comments on this and several other Forums

Good Day, Everyone ��
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Old 02-29-2016, 05:38 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by angelmroman View Post
"I remain the CEO of Roadtrek and I do not intend to change that." J. Hammill

That quote, Ladies and Gentlemen, comes from a Man who clearly knows his days are numbered.

Just a few observations...In my humble opinion, a satisfied owner of a 05 210.

1. CEO of Roadtrek?...No Jim, you are the CEO of the E. Hymer Group of North America, as clearly stated in the Press Release.

2. "I do not intend to change that." Well Jim, the power to name a new CEO belongs to someone else, which will be done in due time.


Why the lack of love for JH?


For starters, all the reasons Booster mentioned. In the end, all of us "Armchair Enginners" were proven correct. All of the missteps with the premature release of "new" Technology that RT truly did not understand. All of the deliberately deceiving information that RT continues to put out. Just one shining example...All of the info on the Zion refers to the single "400 Amp" standard battery. That would be great. If it were true. In fact, the battery is less than 200 Amps. RT has had plenty of time to correct that claim and new Customers continue to buy Zions, blissfully unaware of the deception. The smaller than Spec grey water tanks installed on some Sprinters, the issues with Ecotrek, Voltrek and on and on. All on JH's watch...

As recently as three weeks ago, I stood inside a brand new 210, trying to justify spending $100K+ to replace what I have now. Sorry, not going to happen. Not right now anyway. I'll stay on the sidelines and watch things play out. If and when the dust settles and the product hopefully improves, then I'll pull the trigger.

In the meantime, I'll continue to read the comments on this and several other Forums

Good Day, Everyone ��
I agree with much of what you said. In the context of what he said, I suggest that his recent statement was meant to reassure the Roadtrek brand fans, some of them predicting the demise of the brand under the new deal, that he is remaining as the head of Roadtrek in addition to taking on new responsibilities as the head of the overall Erwin Hymer Group activities in North America. I read it as a message that Roadtrek will continue as a brand within Erwin Hymer with improved products, quality, and customer service.

My inclination is to take it on face value and not read more into it than what is there...
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Old 03-01-2016, 03:48 AM   #118
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Why the lack of love for JH?

My opinion:

It's an unfortunate combination of a company who had a very good reputation that started to decline and a CEO that wanted to maintain the no1 rank at all costs.

He did this with an attitude, getting involved in social networks in a clumsy manner to cover up the inability of its company to cope with the very ambitious technological project they rushed to the market.

When I visited the plant in 2013 to discuss some minor changes to the vehicle I just ordered, I was surprised by the lack of enthusiasm of all the professionals at RT I met. They were very friendly but I had the clear feeling they had a major problem: a lack of competent ressources in design management and engineering.

My suspicions were confirmed when my dealer received my vehicle, most of the requests I made were not done. And some changes to the vehicle were made without my consent. They were considering bringing back the vehicle to the plant to correct everything. Not a good start! I canceled my contract and was lucky to be able to order a new vehicle on a new chassis from a very reputable company, just in time for the 2014 summer.

The good thing he did: push his company at all costs to develop new technology solutions that will one day become functional and easily available for all. Believing that there's a market for small and extra-small class B vehicles (Zion SRT and Link).
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Old 03-01-2016, 05:14 AM   #119
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Agree, this is a good compromise for a gentlemen off-roader. Not really an all-terrain (the big overhang is problematic), but a nice combination for a luxury outlander. I'm sure Hymer could convince MB to offer a 4x4 cut-away Sprinter chassis, which I believe is still not available in NA
These Hymer ML-T vans look like they would be serious competition for the RVs built by Leisure Travel Vans. I gathered the info below from the web site and their online brochure. Since I'm paticularly interested in how well any RV suits a tall person (6' or taller), I noted bed length, interior headroom and the location of appliances relative to the floor.

All: They all have a tall refrigerator, mounted about 6-8 inces above the floor, with a freezer on top. A freezer on the bottom would be more convenient, since people get food out of the refrigerator more often than they get food from the freezer. A refrigerator on top means less frequent bending for a tall person. All models have a propane oven under the counter. I didn't see a microwave in any of them. None of them have the floor mounted appliances that are found on some Roadtreks.

1. Mechanics: It's not a dual-rear-wheel Sprinter. The good news is that they can offer Crosswind Assist, since Mercedes doesn't offer this on a dually. The questionable news is that it would seem to be less stable when fully loaded. The four rear wheels are probably there for a reason.

2. Exterior: There are no "swoopy-doopy" paint swirls on the outside. Personally, I hate those. The rear mast design and overall paint could be more elegant for my tastes, but at least it's not a dozen different colors wrapped around a fiberglass box.

3. Interior: The interiors have wood stains, fittings and upholstery that seem well chosen to make the interior look luxurious and calming. The cabinets don't look like Home Depot closeouts--they seem designed and built specifically for these RVs. There are 13 different fabric or fabric/leather choices. If you want carpet, there are 2 different ones to chose from. It seems like the photography of the interiors uses a lens that makes everything look much larger and more spacious than it really is. While Hymer isn't the only one using such a lens, their lens seems to distort more than others.

Interior specs:
Maximum headroom (Flat floor on ML-T 540 and ML-T 560, so it's the same throughout): approx. 198cm (78 inches). The other models have a small stepup to rear bedroom area, about 3-6 inches. The text for the series says that they all have a flat floor. The stepup shows in the 360 degree photos.

I'm not sure what "SA" that's mentioned in their bed size measurements means. I assume that it refers to the way that the front bed is oriented: it's aligned straight with the axle. These beds could also be specially made for space aliens ("SA") but I dunno. I just converted their specs, as is, into inches.

HYMER ML-T 540
Bed size rear L x W approx. 200cm x 145cm/122cm [78.74 inches x 58.09 inches/48.03 inches]

HYMER ML-T 560
Bed size rear L x W approx. 200cm x 148cm [78.74 inches x 58.27 inches]

HYMER ML-T 580 (Twin Beds)
Bed size rear L x W approx. 194cm x 80cm / 187cm x 80cm [76.38 inches x 31.5 inches / 73.62 inches]

HYMER ML-T 620
Bed size front L x B approx. 185cm x 110cm (SA) [72.84 inches x 43.31 inches (SA)]
Bed size rear L x W approx. 197cm x 80cm / 200cm x 80cm [77.56 inches x 31.5 inches / 78.74 inches x 31.5 inches]

HYMER ML-T 630
Bed size front L x B approx. 185cm x 110cm (SA) [72.84 inches x 43.31 inches (SA)]
Bed size rear L x W approx. 190cm x 140cm / 200cm x 140cm (SA) [74.8 inches x 55.12 inches / 78.74 inches x 55.12 inches]
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Old 03-01-2016, 12:46 PM   #120
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At the current time, the only model anywhere that would compel me to replace my 08 RS Adventurous is the Hymer ML-T. No big advantage to me to go to another Sprinter Class B but the extra storage in the ML-T and the fact that it is only slightly larger than a Class B and the overall floorplan with the twin beds would be ideal for us. LTV is surely nice but too big for us. If they could do the 4x4 in the ML-T over here that would be perfect.
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