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Old 11-14-2020, 02:26 PM   #61
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I guess I wasn't surprised by the price when you look at their other prices and the huge battery bank.


It looks like they have built their own "Volta" system but with Lithium iron batteries instead of the automotive style. Stated at 48v and charging in 3 hours so alternator probably not quite as high output as Volta, IIRC, as ARV is only counting on about 400 amps average charge rate equivalent if it were 12v. At 48v closer to 100 amps which would be really nice.


I am not so sure about their extreme stealth claim, though, unless you are parked in an industrial area. Many municipalities frown on commercial "trucks", as in box trucks, parked on residential streets overnight, so even if they don't see it as an RV, you could also get hassled.
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Old 11-14-2020, 03:32 PM   #62
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Wendland and ARV should know better than to say or insinuate that this is a class B. Why oh why would they do that???
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Old 11-14-2020, 03:41 PM   #63
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Wendland and ARV should know better than to say or insinuate that this is a class B. Why oh why would they do that???
ARV has not called it a Class B. The name B Box is because it is about the same size as a Class B Sprinter.
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Old 11-14-2020, 04:16 PM   #64
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In the video, you'll see what peteco is referring to. If not all out calling it a class b (but pretty close) they strongly insinuate as peteco says.
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Old 11-14-2020, 04:22 PM   #65
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I guess I wasn't surprised by the price when you look at their other prices and the huge battery bank.


It looks like they have built their own "Volta" system but with Lithium iron batteries instead of the automotive style. Stated at 48v and charging in 3 hours so alternator probably not quite as high output as Volta, IIRC, as ARV is only counting on about 400 amps average charge rate equivalent if it where 12v. At 48v closer to 100 amps which would be really nice.


I am not so sure about their extreme stealth claim, though, unless you are parked in an industrial area. Many municipalities frown on commercial "trucks", as in box trucks, parked on residential streets overnight, so even if they don't see it as an RV, you could also get hassled.
I'm not surprised at the price. I'm living it and paying for it.

I'm still digesting the batteries. I know they are installing Lithiumwerks Valence batteries like mine. I originally just assumed Volta because they said 48V and in their ARV video didn't dwell on it.

Stealth like boondocking has many definitions by many people and are sort of getting intertwined just like my Facebook group Pursuing Pork Tenderloin Sandwiches arguing the definition of a Fritter constantly. Just have to suck it up and ignore it. Both are basically off-grid camping not in formal campgrounds to me. You might say one is in the boonies and one is in cities. Walmarts and such you could use either term. You are just not screaming RV in appearance but fool nobody unless someone comes up to you to order an ice cream cone. Less so if you own a van.
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Old 11-14-2020, 04:35 PM   #66
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Wendland and ARV should know better than to say or insinuate that this is a class B. Why oh why would they do that???
Wendland can say anything but ARV did not call it a B but named it a B-Box for describing its outside dimensions are no different than a Class B true van which cannot be said of any other manufacturer in North America currently saying it about their B+'s. Interesting ARV said B-box is a registered name.

This technically is still a Class C. It does answer some advantages of cab-chassis that only European manufacturers have done and we Americans have envied. Now that ARV has done it, I bet others will be racing to get in the market too on a mass scale.
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Old 11-14-2020, 04:38 PM   #67
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In the video, you'll see what peteco is referring to. If not all out calling it a class b (but pretty close) they strongly insinuate as peteco says.
I suppose the real question is why care about it so much?

The question of what class it is doesnít matter to the vast majority of buyers, it borders on the irrelevant for all practical purposes. Provides for continuing controversy on this forum and similar places but not much elsewhere...
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Old 11-14-2020, 04:54 PM   #68
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I suppose the real question is why care about it so much?

The question of what class it is doesnít matter to the vast majority of buyers, it borders on the irrelevant for all practical purposes. Provides for continuing controversy on this forum and similar places but not much elsewhere...
Not sure I agree. If you edit out all the marketing abuse, the three classes IMO do a pretty good job of naming three more or less distinct sub-markets of the RV industry:

Class A RVs look like busses.
Class B RVs look like delivery vans.
Class C RVs look like fiberglass boxes stuck onto a truck.

The experience of owning and using each is very different from the others, and the target markets don't overlap too much. This seems useful to me.

The trouble starts when marketers start making up confusing labels like "B+". I think that "B-box" is just as confusing. Although I agree that ARV never said that this was a B-van, their choice of the name "B-box"is unfortunate and is just going to cause more trouble.
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Old 11-14-2020, 05:19 PM   #69
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Interesting question about solar panels - just substitute solar charge by driving, not for my style of camping. The answer of solar not been economical from ARV sounds like an oxymoron statement.
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Old 11-14-2020, 05:24 PM   #70
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I sort of agree, since you could probably put 1000 watts of solar on that big flat roof. But with 15K watt/hrs. of lithium batteries, you need a lot more to make a dent in recharging than I would with my 2.4K watt/hrs. of lithium.

But he did say they'd add it if the buyer wants it. Which is the whole customization niche of ARV. Just wish their prices weren't so high.
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Old 11-14-2020, 05:50 PM   #71
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I sort of agree, since you could probably put 1000 watts of solar on that big flat roof. But with 15K watt/hrs. of lithium batteries, you need a lot more to make a dent in recharging than I would with my 2.4K watt/hrs. of lithium.

But he did say they'd add it if the buyer wants it. Which is the whole customization niche of ARV. Just wish their prices weren't so high.
With 1000W panels, for about $5K you could get 2500-5000Wh/day assuming 5 hours harvesting. No driving. At $2K ARV cost for solar, $5K ARVís price for solar would increase their price of ARVís C by 1.3%.

Choice of customer would be based on selling points which could be convincing. I see one tradeoff; correct installation of solar panels would likely increase the height above their advertised 10í. I am not sure if structure of the box structurally allows mounting panels with a gap. It seems as a gap between dark solar panels would be necessary based on their comments of dark color labels not being permitted.
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Old 11-14-2020, 06:41 PM   #72
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With 1000W panels, for about $5K you could get 2500-5000Wh/day assuming 5 hours harvesting. No driving. At $2K ARV cost for solar, $5K ARVís price for solar would increase their price of ARVís C by 1.3%.

Choice of customer would be based on selling points which could be convincing. I see one tradeoff; correct installation of solar panels would likely increase the height above their advertised 10í. I am not sure if structure of the box structurally allows mounting panels with a gap. It seems as a gap between dark solar panels would be necessary based on their comments of dark color labels not being permitted.

So George, wonder what a Humble Road would charge for a custom b box? Wait, or Yourselves! Please negotiate price and delivery date sometime first quarter 2021, <200K selling price. Maybe a little more if it is either George's work.

Thank you.

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Old 11-14-2020, 07:05 PM   #73
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So George, wonder what a Humble Road would charge for a custom b box? Wait, or Yourselves! Please negotiate price and delivery date sometime first quarter 2021, <200K selling price. Maybe a little more if it is either George's work.

Thank you.

Bud
Sorry Bud, have no answer, you would need to ask George from the Humble Road.

My cost of a new van plus top-notch materials was about $70K plus my design, manufacturing and assembly. I am not in the business so no quote for you nor anyone else. But my strong opinion is that prices for Bs in NA are insane especially if compared with Europe.
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Old 11-15-2020, 03:36 PM   #74
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I suppose the real question is why care about it so much?

The question of what class it is doesnít matter to the vast majority of buyers, it borders on the irrelevant for all practical purposes. Provides for continuing controversy on this forum and similar places but not much elsewhere...
Yep, I so agree! Does it really matter - nope!
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Old 11-15-2020, 06:56 PM   #75
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Interesting question about solar panels - just substitute solar charge by driving, not for my style of camping. The answer of solar not been economical from ARV sounds like an oxymoron statement.
I guess you have never had 800ah plus lithium battery banks and a second alternator producing 320 amps per hour charging at max and 280 amps steady for an hour. I have 420 watts of solar on my roof and it doesn't make much of a contribution to where I don't even think about it anymore since I store in a garage and have no need for even maintenance charging. With my order for nearly five foot shorter van and desiring two skylights, a Maxxfan and the rooftop air conditioner any solar would be just gratuitous to say you have it. ARV has done the analysis from a cost benefit view, a practical trade off view for other desires and customer input. They understand high capacity battery systems and second alternator technology probably better than anyone. BTW, they have never built a van with an Onan type generator or propane since their inception 8 years ago except I think the first one.

ARV has produced an extended van with 1,200 watts of solar. To get that much they had to build a structure over the whole van to clear the ceiling fan, vents, antennas, etc. and then it came down over the front slope. The B-box is wider than a van so you probably could get a 1,000 watts of solar easy.

This prototype B-box ARV said has 13,000 watts of batteries in a 48V configuration. I think I heard that. I haven't tried to do the calculations. I see 1,152ah of 12V batteries if it remained a 12V system (8 - 144ah 12V batteries) that I can understand which is 352ah more than I have. That would make solar even more inconsequential.

I suspect customers may make better practical use of that rooftop with no rooftop air conditioning with more skylighting, rooftop storage for kayaks and such, or a full deck like Sue Valentine has for her 144 WB ARV Bucky.
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Old 11-15-2020, 07:13 PM   #76
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I guess you have never had 800ah plus lithium battery banks and a second alternator producing 320 amps per hour charging at max and 280 amps steady for an hour. I have 420 watts of solar on my roof and it doesn't make much of a contribution to where I don't even think about it anymore since I store in a garage and have no need for even maintenance charging. With my order for nearly five foot shorter van and desiring two skylights, a Maxxfan and the rooftop air conditioner any solar would be just gratuitous to say you have it. ARV has done the analysis from a cost benefit view, a practical trade off view for other desires and customer input. They understand high capacity battery systems and second alternator technology probably better than anyone. BTW, they have never built a van with an Onan type generator or propane since their inception 8 years ago except I think the first one.

ARV has produced an extended van with 1,200 watts of solar. To get that much they had to build a structure over the whole van to clear the ceiling fan, vents, antennas, etc. and then it came down over the front slope. The B-box is wider than a van so you probably could get a 1,000 watts of solar easy.

This prototype B-box ARV said has 13,000 watts of batteries in a 48V configuration. I think I heard that. I haven't tried to do the calculations. I see 1,152ah of 12V batteries if it remained a 12V system (8 - 144ah 12V batteries) that I can understand which is 352ah more than I have. That would make solar even more inconsequential.

I suspect customers may make better practical use of that rooftop with no rooftop air conditioning with more skylighting, rooftop storage for kayaks and such, or a full deck like Sue Valentine has for her 144 WB ARV Bucky.
You make your point very clear; you have bigger batteries and if you drive and use engine to charge batteries you donít need solar.
I donít drive a lot, we just like camping not cruising so for us solar is important, you are not going to convince me about needs for large battery bank and no solar and I will not convince you about solar and we should agree to disagree.

I very much doubt you have 420W of solar with a hole punched by ARV through one of the panels.

Cheers.
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Old 11-15-2020, 10:14 PM   #77
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For what it's worth, we totally get that as battery banks get bigger, solar becomes less important, while high-output alternators and maybe even a good generator, maintain their relevance.

For us in our own van, stopping at 400Ah for now means that 400 watts on the roof will be helpful, and since we're yanking that stupid satellite dish dome off there and have no interest in roof racks, we have room for it. We might at some point sneak another 200Ah into the van, but for now that will have to wait until we see how much room the current plan eats up, in back, behind the lounge. So, regarding the B-Box, we get their logic and appreciate it. We simply cannot accept that price tag, but it's a very interesting approach and we applaud their work.
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