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Old 06-27-2018, 07:58 PM   #41
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Very interesting and for Roadtrek. One comment - no other Canadian Sprinter "B" manufacturers are listed. Perhaps Hymer/RT got dropped because they manufacture in Canada and the upfitter programme is run out of MB-USA?
Have you looked at the MasterUpfitter list? There are 22 Canadian MasterUpfitters and lots of other Sprinter RV manufacturers, like Coachman, Pleasure-Way, Forest River and LTV part of Triple E Recreational Vehicles. The MasterUpfitter program is sponsored by Daimler Mercedes-Benz Vans, which is a separate entity from MB USA and MB Canada.

The Canadian upfitter website:
https://www.mercedes-benz-vans.ca/en/upfitters

As I said earlier Hymer is a major Mercedes-Benz van partner and one of their biggest customer. I'm sure Roadtrek gets all the Mercedes support they need through the Hymer European connections.

https://www.upfitterportal.com/en-ca/upfitters/locator

https://www.daimler.com/company/busi...des-benz-vans/
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Old 06-27-2018, 08:16 PM   #42
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I don't know how Voltstart could be a cause of dismissal. You can start a Sprinter without the key in the ignition from the fob so anyone can idle the engine to charge their batteries. The high idle feature is from MB. I thought Hymer had gone to that recently. They didn't offer it initially. The 5 starts before you have to engage a key start I am pretty sure comes from MB programming because they all have it. The 30 minutes per auto start is rather conservative since MB guidelines is up to 2 hours and then drive the Sprinter. Advanced RV is programmable to run any amount of minutes up to 1 hr 55 min. So, I'm not seeing why that is a reason and if it is for some reason, I'm sure Hymer could rectify it easily and stay in the upfitter program.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:08 PM   #43
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.

To be an accredited upfitter, the RV manufacturer must adhere to a strict set of rules and guidelines laid out by MB. eg. how many holes you can drill, what are the max size of the holes, where can you drill the holes, etc., Any deviation from the rules and guidelines can result in a "dismissal".

Did RT do something wrong?
Would RT owners lose any or part of the MB warranty?
eg. if the Voltstart kicks in too often and ruined the emission system, who's fault is that? MB guaranteed the emission system, but that is for road use only. Would the Voltstart requires additional warranty costs?

Qs and Qs... Lots of Qs.
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Old 06-27-2018, 10:48 PM   #44
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Would RT owners lose any or part of the MB warranty?
Third party modifications cannot by US law affect the OEM warranty.

Of course, the OEM warranty does not cover damage proved to have been caused by such a third-party modification. But it never did. You are not "losing" any warranty protection.

More generally, the Master Upfitter program is a contract between the OEM and the upfitter. It does not directly involve the end user.
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Old 06-28-2018, 12:37 AM   #45
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Third party modifications cannot by US law affect the OEM warranty.

Of course, the OEM warranty does not cover damage proved to have been caused by such a third-party modification. But it never did. You are not "losing" any warranty protection.

More generally, the Master Upfitter program is a contract between the OEM and the upfitter. It does not directly involve the end user.
You are repeating yourself.

Yes we know that...

Note my qualifier -- lose any or part of the MB warranty?
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Old 06-28-2018, 12:48 AM   #46
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Note my qualifier -- lose any or part of the MB warranty?
Respectfully, note my use of the word -- affect the OEM warranty. "Los[ig] any or part of the MB warranty" would count as "affecting" that warranty. This cannot happen in the US.

If I repeat myself, it is because people keep suggesting things that cannot happen, and this misleads other people--leading to a vicious cycle. You asked a question and I answered it. Correctly.
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Old 06-28-2018, 01:32 AM   #47
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Respectfully, note my use of the word -- affect the OEM warranty. "Los[ig] any or part of the MB warranty" would count as "affecting" that warranty. This cannot happen in the US.

If I repeat myself, it is because people keep suggesting things that cannot happen, and this misleads other people--leading to a vicious cycle. You asked a question and I answered it. Correctly.

You did not answer it, you went on a tangent.


We are talking about IF an upfitter got dismissed because he's not adhering to MB's rules. eg. drilling a hole too big, or in an unapproved location. If that is the case, MB is fully within its right to deny part of the warranty where the claim is caused by the "wayward" hole. RT will have to bear the warranty to the customer.

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Old 06-28-2018, 02:39 AM   #48
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I don't get it. In late 2017 they announce Hymer dismissed from Master Upfitter program. On March 15, 2018 MB does a press release announcing the partnership in the design of the new Sprinter with Hymer and the fact Hymer is the largest customer. Why form a design partnership with a Company you dismiss from your Master Upfitter program? (If it is only about money MB would't dismiss Hymer.)

We are missing some key information.
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Old 06-28-2018, 03:48 AM   #49
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You did not answer it, you went on a tangent.


We are talking about IF an upfitter got dismissed because he's not adhering to MB's rules. eg. drilling a hole too big, or in an unapproved location. If that is the case, MB is fully within its right to deny part of the warranty where the claim is caused by the "wayward" hole. RT will have to bear the warranty to the customer.

I'm sorry, but this is simply incorrect.

The OEM warranty is a contract between Mercedes and the end user. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the upfitter or what they did to the van.

The Master Upfitter program is a contract between Mercedes and the upfitter. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the end user.

These two contracts do not reference each other, and they do not interact in any way. Whether or not the upfitter is a member of the Master Upfitter program has no effect whatsoever on what the warranty does or does not cover. Period. Magnusun -Moss guarantees that a modification as such cannot affect any consumer warranty--whether or not the entity making the modification is a "Master Upfitter".

As I explained, however, the OEM warranty excludes failures provably caused by post-sale modifications to the vehicle that are not approved by Mercedes. This is obvious. OF COURSE MB can't be responsible for modifications beyond their control. But it makes no difference WHO made those modifications. It could be a master upfitter, it could be a non-affiliated upfitter, it could be Joe's Garage, it could be the owner him- or herself. Doesn't matter. The Master Upfitter program is a useful mechanism for MB to document what they consider permissible modifications, but it has nothing to do with your warranty, and some upfitter getting kicked out of the program will not change anything between you and MB.

You asked about "losing part of your warranty". You do NOT lose part of your warranty, ever. The kinds of damages you are asking about are not covered by the warranty, and never have been. This may sound like splitting hairs, but I can assure you that these distinctions make all the difference when push comes to shove. I realize I post this information often, but the fact is that the Internet is full of claims that this or that will "void the warranty" (or in your case, part of it). ALL of these claims are incorrect, and I think that this is an important fact.

It would be really nice if you could go to Mercedes and get a rejected warranty claim reversed by pointing to your upfitter's Master Upfitter membership, but I can assure you (from sad experience) that this is not the case.
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Old 06-28-2018, 01:52 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by avanti View Post
Third party modifications cannot by US law affect the OEM warranty.
Do you have a citation of this law by any chance? I'd like to be able to refer to it if a Dodge dealer ever refuses warranty work on my Promaster conversion.

EDIT: Nevermind. I kept reading and saw the later post where you mentioned the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act. Love learning from you folks here!

I did see in the government explanation of the Act below "...it is permissible to disclaim warranty coverage for defects or damage caused by the use of parts or service you didn’t provide." So if an upfitter's modifications somehow caused a problem with the original equipment, that would not be covered under the OEM warranty. But that makes sense, and is fair.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/busi...#Magnuson-Moss
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Old 06-28-2018, 02:37 PM   #51
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I just had a sensor replaced in my Chevy 170RT. It was related to the steering wheel and required dropping the steering column. Because of the numerous changes to the wiring by RT, they had to keep it overnight. When they called, they said that it was taking about 3 times as long as they didn't want to mess up the conversion work. It is still under warranty from GM, but I expected that they might bill me for the extra time. I called RT and asked... they told me that they would cover the extra charge under their 6 year warranty.

But... Chevy ate the extra time... which was nice. This probably varies from dealership to dealership.
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Old 06-28-2018, 05:36 PM   #52
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I don't get it. In late 2017 they announce Hymer dismissed from Master Upfitter program. On March 15, 2018 MB does a press release announcing the partnership in the design of the new Sprinter with Hymer and the fact Hymer is the largest customer. Why form a design partnership with a Company you dismiss from your Master Upfitter program? (If it is only about money MB would't dismiss Hymer.)

We are missing some key information.
That press statement by MB Van head Volker Mornhinweg appears to reference Hymer AG signing the contract to buy several thousand of the new Sprinter front wheel drive 'tractor head' units to build semi-integrated (Class B+) small motorhomes for the European market.

MB Sprinter's new fwd tractor head unit allows them to compete with Fiat's Ducato head units for low-floor motorhome market share in Europe for the first time. FWD Sprinters will not be sold in North America, and in fact I don't think any tractor-head units have been available since the VW Eurovan / Rialta units from the early 2000s.

Hymer AG has a very different model line than Erwin Hymer Group North America.
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Old 06-28-2018, 06:15 PM   #53
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I'm pretty sure that Hymer is buying a license to cover their entire umbrella of companies. I wouldn't read anything into Roadtrek being "dismissed", as that probably is simply a nice way of saying they didn't pay the fee, so they are released from the program as Roadtrek.
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Old 06-28-2018, 08:04 PM   #54
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There was no mention of Roadtrek. It was Erwin Hymer Group of North America, Inc.
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Old 06-29-2018, 02:02 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by wincrasher View Post
I'm pretty sure that Hymer is buying a license to cover their entire umbrella of companies. I wouldn't read anything into Roadtrek being "dismissed", as that probably is simply a nice way of saying they didn't pay the fee, so they are released from the program as Roadtrek.

BINGO - I think that is the most likely scenario.


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Old 06-29-2018, 02:10 AM   #56
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Default Erwin Hymer Group NA Dismissed by Daimler Vans from MasterUpfitter Program

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There was no mention of Roadtrek. It was Erwin Hymer Group of North America, Inc.
Roadtrek is now just a brand owned by Erwin Hymer Group of North America, Inc.

http://www.roadtrek.com/news-events/...eaders-choice/

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