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Old 11-19-2020, 06:40 PM   #61
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A bit disappointing that with all that room, they still stuck the A/C on the roof.
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Old 11-19-2020, 07:56 PM   #62
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A bit disappointing that with all that room, they still stuck the A/C on the roof.
Without a roof AC and solar panels its height could likely be below 10'.
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Old 11-19-2020, 08:06 PM   #63
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I agree about the cabinetry - looks identical to the entry level Solis model cabinets. It will be interesting to see how they hold up under rugged usage conditions the EKKO is targeted for.

At $164k list the EKKO street price should end up around $125k once traditional WGO discounting of 25-30% returns after Covid. For a compact rig with standard AWD, gear garage, fully enclosed all-weather systems, 50 gal water, 315 Ah lithium, 455w solar, and dedicated second alternator charging that's quite unique.
The sad part about the price is that it should really cost no more than about $65K before the alleged discounts.

If Winnie really sells these things they'll make one hell of a profit on each.
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Old 11-19-2020, 09:48 PM   #64
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Winnebago is expected to announce its new EKKO model entry into the small B+ (aka B-Box) market on Nov 18th. Preliminary information indicates EKKO will be based on Ford's EcoBoost Transit Chassis with optional All Wheel Drive.

EKKO appears to mimic European Semi-Integrated designs with external dimensions equal to or smaller than Class B vans. Total length will be less than Winnebago's Era van based on the Sprinter chassis.

Additional features are expected to include fully insulated four season plumbing and HVAC systems, insulated windows, and an enclosed rear gear garage suitable for bikes and other outdoor equipment.

Note this information is based on industry supply chain sources and may differ from the final WGO product.
Hello, I just saw the specs on the new Class B EKKO and has some great things. It is a bit pricy so I am sticking with my 2020 Travato K until things change. I have also considered a Wonder with some of the same things.
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Old 11-19-2020, 09:51 PM   #65
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What I’m really surprised about is that they didn’t go with a Volta3 power system and bigger inverter if they really want to make it an off grid machine.
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Old 11-19-2020, 09:53 PM   #66
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Hello, I just saw the specs on the new Class B EKKO and has some great things. It is a bit pricy so I am sticking with my 2020 Travato K until things change. I have also considered a Wonder with some of the same things.
Good luck getting your hands on the Wonder RTB (Iím assuming thatís what youíre referring to because of the garage storage). Unless you find a used one, getting a new one is an 18-24 month wait.
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Old 11-19-2020, 11:16 PM   #67
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I would guess that the lack of the Volta system was to keep the undercarriage clean and have the lithium batteries in the heated space. It also lets them use the factory-installed 2nd alternator, which puts out 12v, not the 48v that the Volta system needs. The second alternator is an under $300 option on the Transit. That combined with the Xantrex and Lithionics batteries makes for a Lithium system that is almost certainly many thousands less to produce than the Volta system.

As I think about our next camper this is almost exactly the electrical system that I had in mind. The factory-installed 2nd alternator makes it a difficult choice to pass up.
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Old 11-20-2020, 01:27 AM   #68
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I would guess that the lack of the Volta system was to keep the undercarriage clean and have the lithium batteries in the heated space. It also lets them use the factory-installed 2nd alternator, which puts out 12v, not the 48v that the Volta system needs. The second alternator is an under $300 option on the Transit. That combined with the Xantrex and Lithionics batteries makes for a Lithium system that is almost certainly many thousands less to produce than the Volta system.

As I think about our next camper this is almost exactly the electrical system that I had in mind. The factory-installed 2nd alternator makes it a difficult choice to pass up.
The Volta system is inside the coach on the Boldt, not underneath. Itíll be interesting to see if this system for the Ekko works well for off gridding for any extended time. Solar does not seem to be the saving grace for these systems that the manufacturers would have us believe. The second alternators are far more important.
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Old 11-20-2020, 01:56 AM   #69
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What is the reason an extra 6” of vehicle height (10 ft vs 9’ 6”) is a deal breaker?

How will you be restricted in some way by that extra 6”?

Our truck is 12’ 6” and there are very few clearance issues on the road since large trucks are 13’ high. There are some low clearance locations that would get us but not many...

The restrictions in other cases (drive throughs, parking structures, etc) would typically limit you at 9’ 6”.

The only thing we run into are low branches but the truck is designed to deflect small ones and we avoid the thick ones...
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Old 11-20-2020, 01:59 PM   #70
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The sad part about the price is that it should really cost no more than about $65K before the alleged discounts.

If Winnie really sells these things they'll make one hell of a profit on each.
I'll make you a deal.
Build the same exact thing, and I'll pay you $90K.
It'll be an easy $25K for you.
As a matter of fact, I'll find three other buyers too!
$100K, just like that. BOOM!
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Old 11-20-2020, 04:02 PM   #71
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I'll make you a deal.
Build the same exact thing, and I'll pay you $90K.
It'll be an easy $25K for you.
As a matter of fact, I'll find three other buyers too!
$100K, just like that. BOOM!
B-class is an interesting market, prices in NA are through the roof, customers defend them even thou most of them want to negotiate lower prices for themselves. As long as we, we the customers will indorse that high prices are OK they will continue. If I would be a manufacturer, I would love the hear customer telling everyone that high prices are OK.
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Old 11-20-2020, 04:52 PM   #72
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The sad part about the price is that it should really cost no more than about $65K before the alleged discounts.

If Winnie really sells these things they'll make one hell of a profit on each.
The Transit chassis is $40,000 minus a fleet discount, so the rest of it, including the lithium battery system, hot water heater, furnace, fridge, air conditioner, toilet, etc. plus the cabin materials and labor plus some profit should cost around $25,000?

Canít imagine you could reach your cost even with a DIY build with your free labor. An similar composite panel bare cabin is going to cost $10,000+ from someplace like Total Composites. You could do the cabin on the cheap but it wonít be as well built or insulated.
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Old 11-20-2020, 05:01 PM   #73
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B-class is an interesting market, prices in NA are through the roof, customers defend them even thou most of them want to negotiate lower prices for themselves.
Winnebago list prices do tend to run sky high. With normal retail discounts the EKKO street price should be well below a LTV Wonder with AWD. But current Covid driven demand has allowed dealers to recapture much of that discount margin.

Domestic vs European RV pricing has always been a bit of a mystery. Clearly it's not hugely profitable (until just recently) or those profits would be apparent in domestic RV manufacturer stock prices and market cap. If there were really big money to be made it would have attracted new competitors.
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Old 11-20-2020, 05:23 PM   #74
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Domestic vs European RV pricing has always been a bit of a mystery. Clearly it's not hugely profitable (until just recently) or those profits would be apparent in domestic RV manufacturer stock prices and market cap. IF there were really big money to be made it would have attracted new competitors.
Seems pretty obvious to me:
--European roads are cramped and claustrophobic, so people want/need relatively tiny RVs.
--Therefore, a much higher percentage of RV production is concentrated on B's and small C's.
--Therefore, the manufacturers can afford to invest in 21st century manufacturing techniques, including specialized components engineered for assembly and proper assembly lines and automation.
--Therefore, European RVs are built like cars rather than like houses.
--Therefore, Eurpoean RVs are vastly cheaper to build and sell.
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Old 11-20-2020, 05:36 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by avanti View Post
Seems pretty obvious to me:
--European roads are cramped and claustrophobic, so people want/need relatively tiny RVs.
--Therefore, a much higher percentage of RV production is concentrated on B's and small C's.
--Therefore, the manufacturers can afford to invest in 21st century manufacturing techniques, including specialized components engineered for assembly and proper assembly lines and automation.
--Therefore, European RVs are built like cars rather than like houses.
--Therefore, Eurpoean RVs are vastly cheaper to build and sell.
Exactly! Honda Accord built using North America RV manufacturing technologies would cost $XXX,XXX.

In addition: In Europe weight plays significant role in driver licenses, insurance and registration. In Germany I have seen police with scales weighing what look like an overweight camper.
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Old 11-20-2020, 05:36 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by avanti View Post
Seems pretty obvious to me:
--European roads are cramped and claustrophobic, so people want/need relatively tiny RVs.
--Therefore, a much higher percentage of RV production is concentrated on B's and small C's.
--Therefore, the manufacturers can afford to invest in 21st century manufacturing techniques, including specialized components engineered for assembly and proper assembly lines and automation.
--Therefore, European RVs are built like cars rather than like houses.
--Therefore, Eurpoean RVs are vastly cheaper to build and sell.
Will Thor take advantage of these economies of scale when they start up the new manufacturing facility for Hymer compact Class C’s in Indiana? If so, will the savings reduce the customer price or increase profits or both?
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Old 11-20-2020, 05:50 PM   #77
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Will Thor take advantage of these economies of scale when they start up the new manufacturing facility for Hymer compact Class Cís in Indiana? If so, will the savings reduce the customer price or increase profits or both?
I have 2 hopes, Roadtrek/Rapido/Westfalia and Hymer/Thor.
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Old 11-20-2020, 06:55 PM   #78
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If so, will the savings reduce the customer price or increase profits or both?
It will increase profits until somebody else does it too. THEN it will reduce customer price.
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Old 11-21-2020, 06:38 PM   #79
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It will increase profits until somebody else does it too. THEN it will reduce customer price.
BINGO!! We have a winner...
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Old 11-22-2020, 01:09 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Scottbaldassari View Post
I'll make you a deal.
Build the same exact thing, and I'll pay you $90K.
It'll be an easy $25K for you.
As a matter of fact, I'll find three other buyers too!
$100K, just like that. BOOM!
Sure will, easy! Give me Winnebago's resources and I'll do it in a heartbeat.
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