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Old 10-19-2013, 11:40 AM   #1
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Default Shop talk

This can be just a generic topic about DIY maintenance and tools etc.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:46 AM   #2
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Default Re: Shop talk

I bought this splitter / separator / fork kit for when I start working on the front end. ($17 on sale)



The three fork heads came with two handles. One of the handles is for an air hammer - I figured that might make it easier than swinging a hammer lying on my back under the van.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Shop talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by markopolo
I bought this splitter / separator / fork kit for when I start working on the front end. ($17 on sale)



The three fork heads came with two handles. One of the handles is for an air hammer - I figured that might make it easier than swinging a hammer lying on my back under the van.
The forks work pretty well, I like the air hammer one, pretty cool. Mine are all manual only. Be aware that you stand a high chance of destroying the boot when you use them, so you don't want to use them on parts you are going to resuse. On the older style we have with greaseable fittings and looser boots you stand a better chance of getting away with it with no boot destruction. The new ones with the sealed boots always get wrecked.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Shop talk

Thanks for the tip re: boots. The list of projects is getting long! Mostly maintenance. I'm looking forward to it though. After reading through lots of your posts and the owner manual and repair manual I have (and online stuff) I have a good idea of what I should be doing re: coolant, ATF, gear oil, engine oil, lubrication etc.

You need the tools though and a garage really helps.
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Old 10-19-2013, 01:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: Shop talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by markopolo
Thanks for the tip re: boots. The list of projects is getting long! Mostly maintenance. I'm looking forward to it though. After reading through lots of your posts and the owner manual and repair manual I have (and online stuff) I have a good idea of what I should be doing re: coolant, ATF, gear oil, engine oil, lubrication etc.

You need the tools though and a garage really helps.
We are at the 5 year mark and now out of warranty on everything, so I am going through a lot of the same things, but not hard part replacement yet. It hurts to put so much in at the low miles we have, but time also counts on most of this stuff. I changed oil and filter yesterday, and pulled the transmission pan. It has drained overnight, and today I will add the drain plug to the pan, put in the new filter, and put it back together. I really like the reusable trans pan gasket. Easy to use, and reuse, and no leaks. I will then go after the coolant. I had done a partial, Dexcool change a few years ago, but now with no warranty to worry about, the Dexcool will go away and get replaced with Zerex GO5. Story has it that the GO5 has the same long life and protection properties, but not the downside (plasticizer in the Dexcool) eating seals and gaskets, of deteriorating if it sees air. It is also, allegedly, compatible with Dexcool so if a little is left in at the swap it won't muck up like the green stuff can. Luckily, the 6.0 gasser has a block drain, so it is easier. The hard part is catching all the old antifreeze, as we are on septic, so it can't go down the drain. I have to haul it all to the local hazardous waste facility. I will also change the oil in the differential. It was changed when Chevy had to rebuild it, but it also got all new gears and bearings, so I want to get the breakin debris out. I will be using Redline synthetic gear oil. Then lube the chassis with moly grease and give the front wheel bearings (sealed type) a shot of synthetic Royal Purple grease. Once the van is moved to the other stall of the shop, it will go on stands to get the weight of the tires (Michelin cracking prevention) and we will change the brake fluid using Castrol Dot4 fluid (we do all our brake fluids every 2-3 years and have not had any brake repairs in the wet parts since we started doing it 25 years ago, which is amazing).

Then we sit back and wait to be able to go somewhere!
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Old 10-19-2013, 02:25 PM   #6
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Default Re: Shop talk

Thought I'd reply to RPO / RTV / differential discussion http://www.classbforum.com/phpBB2/vi...&t=1825#p17143 in this new "Shop talk" topic.

I should have mentioned the TSB's I read apply to my model year or close to it. The solution is to use a traditional gasket. It might not apply to your much newer van.

Quote:
This bulletin is being issued to inform dealers about the compatibility and usage of the new Fuel Efficient SAE 75W-90 Synthetic Axle Lubricant, GM
P/N 12378261 (In Canada use P/N 10953455), with current axles, and with the non-synthetic axle lubricant, GM P/N 1052271 (In Canada use P/N
10950849), for the rear axles on the above light-duty trucks.

Testing has shown that the new synthetic lubricant will chemically attack the Room Temperature Vulcanizing (RTV) sealant. Use only the non-synthetic
lubricant, P/N 1052271, in axles using RTV sealant (See 9.5 and 10.5 information below)
Quote:
All 10.5 inch axles prior to March 3, 1999 are compatible if the axle shaft hub seal (RTV) is replaced with P/N 327739 gasket when changing to
synthetic lubricant.
Quote:
It is recommended that synthetic lubricant be used when changing rear axle lubricant for the following reasons:

Potential fuel economy
Lower operating temperature under severe usage conditions
I just don't feel like buying a gasket and removing the cover right now so will use a fluid transfer pump to siphon as much of the old oil out as I can. Synthetic gear oil is pricy. $25 per quart (Royal Purple) compared to $6 per quart (regular GL5 80W-90) around here. Might need 3 quarts (not 100% sure on the quantity).
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Old 10-19-2013, 02:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: Shop talk

Royal Purple is really expensive on everything. I only use it for wheel bearing grease (it is really good in the bicycles also). I haven't bought any Redline lately, but I like them because the seem to specialize in gear oils. I got into using Redline with some balky manual transmissions years ago, and the Redline cured them. The Chevy stuff is probably very spendy, too.

It is very possible I will use the suction pump, too, The covers are a PITA to get off, clean and back on leak free, especially if they have sealant holding them.

If your van made it this far on the regular oil, it is highly unlikely to have any oil related problems in the future. From what I have seen, they tend to run cooler as they get older and run in, unless of course they are failing.
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Shop talk

That's what I was thinking too re: the differential oil change. And that's the oil (80W-90 GL5) spec'd in my owner manual.

Royal Purple sent me a hat for completing a survey. Somebody has to pay for that hat.

In my research re: the axle I saw this GM 10.5, 14 Bolt Full Float Disc Brake Conversion Kit:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-10-5-14-Bolt ... 1291274935

We could probably gain some Cargo Carrying Capacity in these Chevy / GM vans (or at least lighten the load on the tires). Maybe the new vans come with rear disc brakes.
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Shop talk

You have a full floater? Ours is a semi floater, but it does have disc brakes. We do have higher rear capacity, I think (6040#?)
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: Shop talk

I don't know enough to know

I Google the casting number on the differential casing - 26011826 - and the first result is always http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10.5%22_Co ... fferential on my computer and it notes the "the full floating design". However I don't find any reference to 26011826 on the Wikipedia page
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Old 10-19-2013, 09:51 PM   #11
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Default Re: Shop talk

The casting number looks like 26011828 now that I cleaned it a bit.

Confirmed - my van has a full-float rear axle.

Quote:
Check to ensure that you have Full-Floating Axle it will have a 6 bolt flange holding in the pinion just behind the pinion yoke.
I definitely have the 6 bolt flange just behind the pinion yoke.

Good info here re: the GM Corporate 14 Bolt full-floating rear axle: http://www.billavista.com/Tech/Articles ... index.html

Handy reference chart to identify differentials: http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-rods ... z2iCeo6th0

--------------------------------------------

I put the van up on 4 axle stands today. All wheels off the ground.\
Oil is draining.
Trans fluid is draining (the drain plug came off easy). You just need the right tool: Torx T-55
I'll rotate the tires tomorrow while it is off the ground.
Also, refresh the gear oil tomorrow.

I'm having trouble figuring out how to drain the antifreeze. Might be 5 to 6 gallons! My Haynes manual mentions drains in the block but I can't find them. I guess I could disconnect the large diameter hose?
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:24 PM   #12
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Default Re: Shop talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by markopolo
The casting number looks like 26011828 now that I cleaned it a bit.

Confirmed - my van has a full-float rear axle.

Quote:
Check to ensure that you have Full-Floating Axle it will have a 6 bolt flange holding in the pinion just behind the pinion yoke.
I definitely have the 6 bolt flange just behind the pinion yoke.

Good info here re: the GM Corporate 14 Bolt full-floating rear axle: http://www.billavista.com/Tech/Articles ... index.html

Handy reference chart to identify differentials: http://www.roadkillcustoms.com/hot-rods ... z2iCeo6th0

--------------------------------------------

I put the van up on 4 axle stands today. All wheels off the ground.\
Oil is draining.
Trans fluid is draining (the drain plug came off easy). You just need the right tool: Torx T-55
I'll rotate the tires tomorrow while it is off the ground.
Also, refresh the gear oil tomorrow.

I'm having trouble figuring out how to drain the antifreeze. Might be 5 to 6 gallons! My Haynes manual mentions drains in the block but I can't find them. I guess I could disconnect the large diameter hose?
Full floater is good! Wish we had one. All that sounds familiar. Oil and trans are done, antifreeze if everywhere, as it is a touch messy. On our gasser, you remove the lower radiator hose at the radiator, and remove the one block drain that it has, which took a 17mm allen wrench and lots of sockets, extensions and adapters to get in past the oil cooler lines. Normally, you can't get more than about 1/2 the coolant out unless you pull the block drains. They are usually through the side of the block, just above the top of the pan. Often one on each side. They may be hex head, allen head, square head, recessed square head, or even torx, usually a 1/4 npt thread. They are likely to be painted over the same color as the block.

Also be sure to check the manual for the proper refill procedure, so you get all the air out and don't cause an airlock or pocket. On ours, you have to disconnect an air bleed from the radiator, disconnect the top radiator hose and fill there until it comes out the bleed hose, put the top radiator hose back on, fill the radiator the rest of the way through the cap opening, then put the bleed hose back on. whew.

I still have the differential oil to do, and the brake fluid change.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: Shop talk

Thanks for the tip re: the air bleed - apparently mine is on the thermostat housing. As for my block drains, they are "blocked" by two engine mounts - one on each side. all the discussions on the diesel forums indicate the mounts have to be removed. I'll skip that (pretty sure unless it looks easier tomorrow) and instead drain as much coolant as I can. I might repeat that procedure in about a week (if I have lots of coolant left over) as I already bought enough coolant and distilled water to make 6 gallons. I'll continue with Dexcool so no mixing two types of coolant issues.
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:51 PM   #14
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Booster - does your manual recommend adding "Coolant Supplement Sealer" tabs after a coolant system flush and refill?
Mine does.
A search turned up a PDF and FAQ from Bar's: ( http://barsproducts.com/support/faq/31#q7 )
Quote:
Are these the same tablets the auto and truck manufactures use?
Yes, these are the same tablets as used by many OEM auto and truck manufacturers.
General Motors (3634621)
Ford Motor (F6SE-19A511-AA)
Chrysler (0431-8005)
Also, I might as well replace all the grease zerks as a couple look to be leaking. One leaked instantly when I did the lube job last time. I removed and cleaned it out and it worked ok after that. The leaking ones probably have grit in them.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: Shop talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by markopolo
Booster - does your manual recommend adding "Coolant Supplement Sealer" tabs after a coolant system flush and refill?
Mine does.
A search turned up a PDF and FAQ from Bar's: ( http://barsproducts.com/support/faq/31#q7 )
Quote:
Are these the same tablets the auto and truck manufactures use?
Yes, these are the same tablets as used by many OEM auto and truck manufacturers.
General Motors (3634621)
Ford Motor (F6SE-19A511-AA)
Chrysler (0431-8005)
Also, I might as well replace all the grease zerks as a couple look to be leaking. One leaked instantly when I did the lube job last time. I removed and cleaned it out and it worked ok after that. The leaking ones probably have grit in them.
Nothing on anti-leak adding in our service manual. Good info and part numbers on the tablets. Around here about all you see is the "aluminum" powder, which doesn't seem to do anything but plug the heater core.

The leaking fittings bring back (fond?) memories of the perpetual discussions/arguments in the machinery and plant maintenance business. Almost everyplace I worked, I was in charge of, or the engineering support for, the maintenance department. While I like machinery clean and well maintained, I would always instruct the techs to grease the fittings, but leave grease on them. Just the little blob the gun leaves, not the mess you get if you are on the fitting crooked. Almost all techs took issue with this, and to their defense, much of it came from the technical schools' training. The reasoning for leaving the grease is pretty simple. It will keep water from getting to he check ball and possible corroding it, and it will catch and hold any dirt the fitting sees (this is the biggest issue), which will get wiped off at the next greasing. A fitting that is wiped "clean" will have just enough grease left around the ball to hold some grit, and if it looks clean, 99% of folks won't wipe it before they grease. Even if they do wipe it, the grit is in the seam around the ball and may stay. I got filled in on this issue many years ago by a very experienced (classic old timer to me, as I was about 25) bearing engineer, at one of the major manufacturers, when we were working with them on phantom bearing failures in some equipment. It wasn't the cause in our case, but it was so obviously a good idea it has stuck with me for all this time. The greased parts of our cars look pretty messy!
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:31 AM   #16
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Default Re: Shop talk

Re: transmission fluid drain. The 4L80-E took about 4.5L of Dexron VI using the drain plug to drain. I think it takes 7.2L if you drop the pan.
Re: differential. I was only able to pump out 2.2L (just over 1/2 gallon) of oil out of the fill hole.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:00 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markopolo
Re: transmission fluid drain. The 4L80-E took about 4.5L of Dexron VI using the drain plug to drain. I think it takes 7.2L if you drop the pan.
Re: differential. I was only able to pump out 2.2L (just over 1/2 gallon) of oil out of the fill hole.
Ours called out 7.7 quarts for a pan drop on the transmission. I put in 7 because the last time I had to pull some back out. Haven't checked it yet because it is still on the stands in the front so it isn't really a good idea to be putting it in gear with the rear wheels on the ground. I did the Roadmaster that has a 4L60E last week and it called out 5 quarts and I put in 4 (also the last time had to siphon) and it is just about right. Lately, it seems all of them I do come out over full when putting in what they say. The are also very hard to check as you can't see the hot fluid on the dipstick, and the dipstick picks up fluid from the long guide tube.

I think I will get to the differential tomorrow. It will be interesting to see how much oil it will take. I have a gasket on hand, if I have to open it up, assuming the generator is not in the way.

Did the coolant today, quite a job. It took 10 fills of the block through the top radiator hose, with the block drain in and then removed to get the orange out of the water. A lot of waste water and buckets required, and I still need to haul it all to recycling. It wouldn't just flush, the block had to be full to pick up the old coolant, and the old wouldn't come out the vent either. Don't know where it was hiding. It called out 15.5 quarts of coolant for a complete flush, and I only go about 11.5 in, so I was afraid there was still a lot of Dexcool left, but it hasn't turned back orange yet (very pale yellow on the GO5). I did the refill procedure exactly as the service manual stated, but it still airlocked. I started it, and it came to temp and then kept rising without the upper radiator hose getting hot. Squeezed the hose, revved a little, turned the heater on and off, but none of the tricks worked. Shut it off and let it heat soak for about 10 minutes, and I think enough warmth got to the thermostat to partially open it. When I restarted, it burped a bunch of air out the radiator fill and the top hose got warm right away. It then held temp fine, but still bleed a lot of air. The manual talks about a "vacufill" machine, so they know it a problem, I think. Definitely points out that you should always make sure it is temp controlling and with a hot radiator at idle, before blasting off on a highway test drive where you could overheat it.
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:21 AM   #18
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Default Re: Shop talk

Lot of work but your coolant changeover job is done now and I'm paying attention to your tips
23.5 qts coolant spec'd for my van It won't take that much because I can't access the drains on the block. I found them but no way to get a tool on them. Engine mounts are in the way.

A couple of years ago I bought two 2.5 gallon jugs of RV antifreeze and I kept the containers thinking they'd be useful for something. That something will be using those two jugs to transport the old coolant to the drop-off place.
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:13 AM   #19
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The info I have been able to find is that the 10.5 differential holds 2.75 quarts, so you at 2.3+ quarts is pretty close. If it is like the rest of their capacities, you probably got all of it out!

My manual says to replace the cover bolts if you take the cover off to change the oil. Any of your literature say anything about that? I can't imagine the tine cover being structural.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:47 AM   #20
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I've read online about replacing the bolts. Nothing about it in my Haynes book or owner manual.

80W-90 oil is very thick and it was time consuming to pump out. I had to use a small diameter hose to in the differential housing. The combined hoses were too long for the thick oil so I ended up cutting the small diameter hose as short as possible and even then the oil only came out in spurts. I was thinking "I should've bought a gasket and removed the cover".
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