Class B Market Share, Sales and Shipments

[N147JK]

Originally Posted by Davydd

People don’t want to pay the price for “well-made” They understand.

Do consumers understand they can demand good quality at an affordable price, instead of acquiescing to the status quo? What ever happened to the concept of the "critical consumer"?

[GeorgeRa]

Customers defending high prices support high prices. Statements such as quality is not cheap doesn’t help. Meaningless MSRP by 30% forcing customers to interact with used car salesmanship mentality is painful for some, myself included. With willing customers manufacturers do – “why not”

[Davydd]

OK, criticize everyone on this board who bought a Thor product, which has consistently been demeaned as the poster child of poor quality on this board.

You go to an RV show and see just about everything good and bad. So who buys the bad? As I said, they know. It is what they can afford or willing to pay.

[booster]

I think this is a rebound effect from the manufacturing "program of the month" about "quality is free". It was based on the idea of that by improving quality the return rate, customer satisfaction, etc would easily cover the costs of whatever it took to improve the quality level. Of course they ignored the market they were in so it go applied to everything. I worked in manufacturing all through the decades as a manufacturing engineer and got put though all those programs in the various places I worked. To get the quality up there were many, many of "programs" that we had to install because management thought they would work. Of course none of these programs were industry or facility specific either so that got applied to mostly places they weren't appropriate. They were expensive, time intensive, and often just used to beat on the staff harder. It got to the point that anything that had an acronym made the whole staff shudder. Most of that stuff blew up when inflation and recessions hit and the cost control versions started showing up. Mean time between failure rates usually would target beyond the expected life because of bell curves, but they insisted on moving them to midpoint, resulting many more failures. To compensate for the costs of that, they shortened warranties to much less time and let the poor products continue. The sales and accountants claimed that it was less expensive to find new customers than keep old ones happy.


That said, there are ways to make things more efficiently, mostly by improving equipment and processes, but also by better training and treating the manufacturing crew with dignity. These kinds of things also have quite accurate payback periods in most cases, IMO, if the people doing them know what they are doing. Management routinely would deny anything more than a very short term payback project as all they were worried about the monthly/yearly bottom line and probably their bonuses.


Davydd is right, you can still get quality stuff but it generally made by small businesses that don't have the resources to invest in cost savings projects as they can't be justified by the sales they have. That makes the products appear to cost a lot more compared to the mass produced low quality comparables than most people would expect.



As Mumkin said, it is very bad when somebody who touts premium products and has much higher pricing because of it produces some of the worst products. That is an inexcusable thing to me. Unfortunately, the pandemic years produced shortages of RVs and manufacturers have jumped all over the idea of being able to charge whatever they want and still ship shoddy products as they still could sell them. It will be very interesting to see if they pricing comes back in line as sales slow down and quality starts to matter more in driving sales.

[booster]

This is a very interesting topic to me and obviously quite a few others, but perhaps the moderators could move it out of the sales update ongoing thread to a new on to make it more useful and not clutter up the sales one.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by booster

This is a very interesting topic to me and obviously quite a few others, but perhaps the moderators could move it out of the sales update ongoing thread to a new on to make it more useful and not clutter up the sales one.

Done.
New thread created:
https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...ods-13828.html

[Davydd]

Class Bs are already difficult to manufacture simply because space is limited for designing and that space is in a fixed van that is not boxy and easy to finish off as a Class C or trailer. Manufacturing is extremely limited where assembly line production may not be the easiest to accomplish with the intricacy of building a van. Production in volume is a problem as well. There are over 800 filled campsite spaces where I am at on the south end of South Padre Island. I've been up and down two campground and haven't counted yet a dozen Class Bs.

[Punkinhead]

Originally Posted by Davydd

There are over 800 filled campsite spaces where I am at on the south end of South Padre Island. I've been up and down two campground and haven't counted yet a dozen Class Bs.

I wouldn't expect a lot of people in Class B's to be camping at a place like that. During Jan/Feb we stayed in 8 or so state and national parks and there were several B's in each of them and over a half dozen in a few of them. One of the reasons we have a B is so we don't have to stay in the parking lot style campgrounds that my parents had to use in their large Class A. We stayed in one like that in Gulf Shores for one night. We had a reservation for a second night but bailed to a nicer place. It was four 1/4 mile rows that were straight as an arrow, zero lot line, and no grass or trees. We were the only B - the rest were gigantic 5th wheels and Class A's. Yuck.

[rockymtnb]

Today marks the tenth anniversary of the Class B Market Share, Sales and Shipments thread. To the best of my knowledge this has been the longest running continuously updated topic on the Class B Forum. (The Post Your MPG thread started earlier but had long periods of inactivity).

In the introductory post Markopolo questions whether Roadtrek will be able to hold their number one market position of 23 years in the face of growing competition from Winnebago and Thor. And whether upcoming Transit and RAM Promaster vans may shake up the market for fiberglass top conversions on traditional Ford and Chevy chassis.

Turns out those were remarkably prescient questions. Winnebago overtook Roadtrek as the market share leader in 2015. Roadtrek self-immolated in 2019, albeit not as an act of faith or sacrifice. Fiberglass topped van conversions faded into history in the face of euro-style high roof vans. And eventually Thor, the giant Borg of the RV industry, assimilated its hold on the number 1 position atop all RV classifications by overtaking the Class B market.

Class B's have had quite a ride from being a small niche of the RV market 10 years ago to becoming the fastest growing RV segment these last four years, while overtaking big Class A units to become the second best selling motorized RV type in North America.

So here's a toast to the next 10 years!

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by Punkinhead

I wouldn't expect a lot of people in Class B's to be camping at a place like that. During Jan/Feb we stayed in 8 or so state and national parks and there were several B's in each of them and over a half dozen in a few of them. One of the reasons we have a B is so we don't have to stay in the parking lot style campgrounds that my parents had to use in their large Class A. We stayed in one like that in Gulf Shores for one night. We had a reservation for a second night but bailed to a nicer place. It was four 1/4 mile rows that were straight as an arrow, zero lot line, and no grass or trees. We were the only B - the rest were gigantic 5th wheels and Class A's. Yuck.

I'm going on toward 250,000 miles of Class B camping and I have been in every National Park campground in the lower 48 and most in Alaska and Canada. BLM land and National forest I am very familiar with. i've street camped in NYC, Las Vegas strip, Newport, RI mansion district and other unusual places. i've boondocking just about everywhere. I've been to Quartszite and Slab City. I've winter camped in Michigan's UP when it was 15 below zero. I've attended many Class B rallies over the years. Harvest Host wineries, distilleries and breweries I don't pass up and if not Harvest Host I'm not above asking if I can stay. But like the birds from South America and us from Minnesota in the winter you find sanctuary and rest for awhile. That's South Padre Island with 13+ miles of sand beaches, restaurants galore serving fresh catch seafood and a free bus line to get anywhere. On our way down to SPI we moochdocked with friends in Kansas and Texas and stayed at a winery in Oklahoma. We will be heading west at the end of the week and I guess join all the rest of those Class B'ers.

[Boxster1971]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I'm going on toward 250,000 miles of Class B camping and I have been in every National Park campground in the lower 48 and most in Alaska and Canada. BLM land and National forest I am very familiar with. i've street camped in NYC, Las Vegas strip, Newport, RI mansion district and other unusual places. i've boondocking just about everywhere. I've been to Quartszite and Slab City. I've winter camped in Michigan's UP when it was 15 below zero. I've attended many Class B rallies over the years. Harvest Host wineries, distilleries and breweries I don't pass up and if not Harvest Host I'm not above asking if I can stay. But like the birds from South America and us from Minnesota in the winter you find sanctuary and rest for awhile. That's South Padre Island with 13+ miles of sand beaches, restaurants galore serving fresh catch seafood and a free bus line to get anywhere. On our way down to SPI we moochdocked with friends in Kansas and Texas and stayed at a winery in Oklahoma. We will be heading west at the end of the week and I guess join all the rest of those Class B'ers.

Great post David - you are an inspiration to all B travelers. Our travel experiences have been similar - but only for 160,000 miles so far.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by rockymtnb

Today marks the tenth anniversary of the Class B Market Share, Sales and Shipments thread. To the best of my knowledge this has been the longest running continuously updated topic on the Class B Forum. (The Post Your MPG thread started earlier but had long periods of inactivity).

In the introductory post Markopolo questions whether Roadtrek will be able to hold their number one market position of 23 years in the face of growing competition from Winnebago and Thor. And whether upcoming Transit and RAM Promaster vans may shake up the market for fiberglass top conversions on traditional Ford and Chevy chassis.

Turns out those were remarkably prescient questions. Winnebago overtook Roadtrek as the market share leader in 2015. Roadtrek self-immolated in 2019, albeit not as an act of faith or sacrifice. Fiberglass topped van conversions faded into history in the face of euro-style high roof vans. And eventually Thor, the giant Borg of the RV industry, assimilated its hold on the number 1 position atop all RV classifications by overtaking the Class B market.

Class B's have had quite a ride from being a small niche of the RV market 10 years ago to becoming the fastest growing RV segment these last four years, while overtaking big Class A units to become the second best selling motorized RV type in North America.

So here's a toast to the next 10 years!

Good summary... I remember my first year or two driving to AZ in my new 2004, it was a REALLY exciting day if I saw another B on the road. Nearly all the manufacturers were in Canada (Roadtrek, Pleasureway, Great West, and Leisure Travel) Now I see many B's daily...

Just one quibble... Roadtrek did not self-immolate. It was sold practically in dark of night to a Delaware LLC called Corner Flag, and then 2 suits were sent to the factories in the morning to inform the employees to drop tools, go home, and don't come back. It was an assassination. And the killers laughed all the way to the bank. All legal, of course... and google-able.

[MsNomer]

Most places I spend the night, the only thing I see is Class Bs, mostly self-build PMs. Here is an example—remote trailhead just north of Biloxi, MS. Except for a few trucks that come and go during the day, the only other vehicle is a self-build PM from Maine.