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mlts22 08-09-2016 05:13 AM

Winnebago 4x4 Concept Vehicle
 
Winnebago 4x4 Concept Vehicle This was displayed on The Fit RV:

For me, the good:

Shorter chassis.
Able to go offroad decently.
No TVs.
Decent bed. WGO uses fiberglass bump-outs to allow sleeping transversely.
Plenty of storage space.
The fold out dining table seems to be decent.
The cassette toilet (which is both a pro and a con) is a decent European model which rotates out of the way for a shower.)
The ladder storage is nifty.

The cons:

They are likely to go with an A/C as an option, and assume someone uses a Honda generator to power it, like some Sportsmobile models. As the rig is displayed, if I lived in a dry climate or something more northern, it would be just fine. For a hot, humid climate... no go.

No real 120 volt electric system other than adapters to charge USB devices from the 12 volt system. There is an inverter for the induction stovetop for brief, high amperage loads of 5-10 minutes to cook stuff on a single burner. The Truma heating system is used, so I am pretty sure the rig has propane... but having even a single burner, or a SMEV/Dometic sink/burner that used LP gas would be more useful than the induction stovetop, especially in a rig where electricity is so precious (just solar, no generator or high-amp alternator.) I just question the design decision to go with an induction stove, as opposed to a common LP gas range.

wincrasher 08-09-2016 11:57 AM

There are some ideas in this concept that will surely show up in other models. I don't have much hope for seeing this as a production model though. Market is extremely small. The rack system is definately going to be on the new Transit model and probably on the Promasters. The flooring material is also probably going to be used as the Beaufloor vinyl is reportedly problematic.

Will cassettes be in other models? Will "no A/C" become a thing?

Some people have said they want a more bare-bones model for less money. Not sure if this would be it (I'd expect price over $100k), but this would be a cool way to do it.

Now if their goal was to wipe out a company like Sportsmobile or Outdoor Van, this might be a good way to do it. Surely it would be much, much cheaper.

BBQ 08-09-2016 12:45 PM

.

Re 4x4 RV


Roadtrek has delivered a few 4x4 Sprinters on customer special order.


:cool:

BBQ 08-09-2016 12:46 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDDshivpm0k

wincrasher 08-09-2016 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BBQ (Post 46972)
.

Roadtrek has delivered a few 4x4 Sprinters on customer special order.


:cool:

WGO has delivered some 4x4 Eras too, yet it must be so few as I've not seen one in the wild. They had one at Hershey last year - don't remember if it was an XL or regular length. Definately it was not a short wheelbase like this concept van.

[youtube]D0s5n2pSB4w[/youtube]

BBQ 08-09-2016 12:53 PM

.

On the Winnebago, that bubble at the back is good. It does not look awkward at all.

One RV builder did the same thing years ago (I forgotten which, maybe Airstream?), but that one looked terrible.

wincrasher 08-09-2016 12:55 PM

This appears to be an Airstream Interstate 4x4.

[youtube]uFgBfTSDMck[/youtube]

gregmchugh 08-09-2016 08:31 PM

Looks like a pretty good setup with not much stuff reducing ground clearance like you would find on the typical Sprinter 4x4 from Roadtrek or on the ERA. Only thing I wonder about is the induction cooktop, if you have propane for the Truma why use an induction cooktop?

If they do something close to this I think it would compete pretty well with Hymer designs and Hymer has no 4x4 coming anytime soon to the US so they have a good differentiation. As noted, is there a large enough market for Winnebago to produce it??

Who will be the first to do a 4x4 Promaster Class B over here??

wincrasher 08-09-2016 08:42 PM

I'd not hold out any hope for a 4x4 Promaster. At least not this generation of the US spec van.

Most people could get my with a small lift kit and some aggressive tires. So far I've come up empty looking for a 3" lift kit.

Keyne 08-10-2016 12:56 AM

Personally I think it's great that a mainstream manufacturer is creating a short Sprinter to compete with Outside van type setups. Watching the Fitrv video the walk through spoke to how my wife and I would use a B van... Small for use as daily driver and fit in a regular spot. Inside easy to clean after muddy fishing and hiking. Ram mounts with USB throughout the van were perfect (we don't use TV). Finally a small bathroom with swing away toilet and NO sink so I can take a quick shower before work after fly fishing or a morning hike. Yay to no generator.

I wish it could be propane free but if not then I agree with above that propane cooktop (even single burner to fit the space) would be better. I live in the North East so I would go with the AC option and only use when plugged in. One thing it needs Is a screen side door like the Travatos and a rear screen.

The ultimate would be underhood generator, diesel heat/h2o but that would be a lot more expensive and not totally required for my use.

After several B Sprinter rentals this year this van ticks all the boxes for how my wife and I would use a van. I am probably more on the DIY end of layouts and features but I don't have the time or skills to build one. Also, the small custom shops (VS, OSV, etc) are expensive and on the West coast. Being able to buy one of these from a Winnie dealer with a warranty would be awesome. If I could get one for $90k or less after dealer discount I would buy one.

rockymtnb 08-10-2016 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyne (Post 46990)
...After several B Sprinter rentals this year this van ticks all the boxes for how my wife and I would use a van...

If you're interested in the 4x4 Adventure Concept van make sure you fill out the prospective customer survey Winnebago created to assess customer interest and determine which features should be included in a production unit:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/winne...venturevehicle

Definitely agree with you about liking the compact but functional bathroom, avoiding TVs and built in (ie. quickly outdated) electronics in favor of portable electronic mounts, and the benefits of a rugged and easily cleaned interior. Also agree that since propane is already available for the Truma Combi why not just include a propane cooktop and avoid the extra expense and complexity of a big inverter and battery pack just for the induction cooktop? Still overall a very functional design!

It's exciting to see a major manufacturer break the traditional American RV mold to build an outdoor adventure oriented Class B. I'll be very interested in seeing what finally comes out of this.

mlts22 08-10-2016 02:32 AM

What I've wondered about (and this is pure blue-sky here) is something like a 2500 series Sprinter as a base, but going a different tack:

1: The A/C sized to run from a Honda eu2000i generator, and a place to secure the generator and allow it to run on one of the doors. Perhaps an enclosed box with proper ventilation holes.

2: More diesel appliances. Truma has a version of the Combi furnace/water heater in Europe that runs from diesel fuel. There are also diesel stoves. By doing this, there wouldn't be need for LP gas.

3: The option to locate a Powertech 3000 watt diesel generator underneath, with a skid wheel on the tow hitch. This is what Sportsmobile does, and it has proven itself, as the generator is above the axle, and well out of the angle of departure. Of course, it may affect 4x4 capability, but it might be a decent compromise.

Keyne 08-10-2016 02:41 AM

I did fill out the survey. Also found a good article with some details. 35 gallon water tank and MSRP 100-110k. If the dealer discounts are similar to other Winnebagos this would be a good deal IMO for a nicely fitted 4x4 Sprinter.

Btw, the article shows a small water hose at the sliding door... I would have loved this last weekend after coming back from a hike in the rain to wash off boots and such before getting in the van. A shower at the rear is ok too but for me a side hose at the van entry makes more sense. WInnebago must be reading my mind.

Winnebago's Concept Adventure Vehicle is ready to rough it

wincrasher 08-10-2016 12:35 PM

Remember the target market for this is hiking and bicycling enthusiasts. Not built as an expedition class motor home. You are looking at weekend warriors at best.

For those folks, having enough battery to get thru a weekend is OK. Recharging on the standard alternator is probably OK too.

Their Sprinter products usually come with a 16 gallon LP tank. Not sure one that big fits on the short Sprinter, but assume it does, so that is plenty for a cold weekend.

If the design theme is that you are parked off-kilter enough to justify the bed features they displayed, it may also be their thinking that the electric cooktop would be preferred over LP. Although I've never tried to cook with my rig at a wonky angle, I assume it's problematic with an lp cooktop.

riplips 08-10-2016 05:09 PM

Agree, propane cook top would be great. I don't need 400AH of batteries. 200 would be fine.

rockymtnb 08-10-2016 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlts22 (Post 47005)
2: More diesel appliances. Truma has a version of the Combi furnace/water heater in Europe that runs from diesel fuel... By doing this, there wouldn't be need for LP gas...

Perhaps that's the reason Winnebago chose an induction cooktop and inverter for the Sprinter 4x4 Adventure van. If they anticipate Truma's Combi D6 (diesel) becoming available for the US market they could eliminate propane completely in the final production van.

Then the Adventure 4x4 becomes fully autonomous with just onboard diesel and solar/alternator power. That would make a lot of sense.

wincrasher 08-10-2016 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockymtnb (Post 47035)
Perhaps that's the reason Winnebago chose an induction cooktop and inverter for the Sprinter 4x4 Adventure van. If they anticipate Truma's Combi D6 (diesel) becoming available for the US market they could eliminate propane completely in the final production van.

Then the Adventure 4x4 becomes fully autonomous with just onboard diesel and solar/alternator power. That would make a lot of sense.

The Truma reps told me at GNR that the diesel unit is not legal in the US and they have no intentions of making it so.

Keyne 08-10-2016 11:33 PM

Full diesel would be great but for my purposes propane is fine. It would be nice to have options (like the AC) to keep costs down.

tgregg 08-11-2016 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wincrasher (Post 47036)
The Truma reps told me at GNR that the diesel unit is not legal in the US and they have no intentions of making it so.

Maybe WGO could use the Webasto Dual Top instead of the Truma. It's diesel and it's available in the US.

Keyne 08-11-2016 12:12 PM

Does WGO have a current setup with Webasto? I could see where they may not want to introduce another supplier to the mix. However if they are already working with them it would be great to have full diesel maybe as an option. Diesel appliances and systems from I have seen are more expensive than other options.

It feels to me, as well as mentioned above, that this concept is geared toward the outdoor weekend warrior and not the long term expedition user. If someone really wanted full diesel there are other upfitters that could provide all the bells and whistles (and the costs associated with them) for the user that could really use them.

This van appears to be set in the right direction toward the active user with some compromises using existing WGO appliances and capabilities. One of the key factors I see for the weekend warrior types is to keep the costs down. I for one (weekend warrior type) would love this if I could get one out the door for $90K... If i need to use WGO off the shelf products to get there that is an acceptable compromise for me. If I were planning an expedition/long term live aboard situation I would be exploring other options and accepting a different price point.

wincrasher 08-11-2016 12:47 PM

Diesel appliances are not without complaint, as you'd find exploring some of the expedition sites.

Davydd 08-13-2016 04:21 PM

I got a little curious about putting propane in a diesel van considering there are options to heat and hot water available with tapping diesel and the proposed induction cooktop and compressor refrigerator. I would question putting in propane

In my two previous vans I had propane. Both came with the 9.8 gallon tank. So I used that for comparison which I found easily handled heat, hot water and cooking. Some vans come with bigger tanks but the action van would not have a generator.

LP Capacity Gallons: 9.8

Weight of tank and fittings: 50 lbs

Propane Weight per Gallon: 4.2 lbs.

9.8 gallons x .8 (80% limit for fill) x 4.2 lbs. = 33 lbs. total

Total weight of tank and propane: 83 lbs.

A 200ah 12v LiFeP04 GBS battery that I have weighs 55 lbs. which is about 27.5 lbs/100ah capacity.

Thus 83 lbs. of propane and tank is equivalent to 300ah of LiFeP04 batteries

Assuming a minimum 100ah house battery already then a B can easily have 400ah battery capacity with no weight change by eliminating propane. I know in an Advanced RV with the second alternator and diesel heat and hot water one could easily stay off grid indefinitely. The limit thus is food and water staying in one place.

wincrasher 08-13-2016 04:43 PM

All that is true.

But cost is a factor in this market segment I'm sure. The equipment for diesel fired heat and water heating is much more expensive than the Truma, as are additional lithium batteries and the charging equipment that goes with it.

Although, they are familiar with the Alde equipment, as it's used in the Era 70 C. Not sure what the space constraints are - I think it needs to reside above the floor, not under the van like the gear you have in your ARV.

I'm sure that is a big design discussion when you are engineering an "off-road" van. What can safely go underneath and how best to protect it. I certainly wouldn't be crazy about a big LP tank hanging underneath either.

Davydd 08-13-2016 05:17 PM

This is it for heating and hot water in an ARV. All outside the cabin. The upper module is the Espar diesel heat exchanger with glycol. The bottom module is the glycol to hot water heat exchanger. The heated glycol is nested with water lines, the water tank and exchanges glycol to air ducted in the baseboards of the cabinets. This is mounted within the frame near the driver door. I imagine one could further protect it with iron if desired or necessary but I doubt anyone is going to expect to treat a B like a jeep.

https://www.classbforum.com/attachmen...624189e54a.jpg

ARV also has a Rixen Comfort Zone glycol reservoir under the hood with an electric heater for use when plugged into shore power, but it would not be necessary if off-grid is the intention. This system sips about a cup per hour when in use for heating. The draw from the diesel tank is above the 1/4 full line so will not run you out of fuel.

Davydd 08-13-2016 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wincrasher (Post 47154)
All that is true.

But cost is a factor in this market segment I'm sure. The equipment for diesel fired heat and water heating is much more expensive than the Truma, as are additional lithium batteries and the charging equipment that goes with it.

It is a small van. A Truma system or a Suburban hot water system takes away a lot of inside space. At least a suitcase worth.

There would be some cost offset eliminating the tank, lines, switches, exhaust, cutting and much more installation labor than additional lithium ion batteries. What that is I don't know but those 9.8 gallon tanks are not cheap. I think they push $500.

avanti 08-13-2016 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davydd (Post 47155)
The upper module is the Espar diesel heat exchanger with glycol. The bottom module is the glycol to hot water heat exchanger.

Actually, the bottom module is the muffler for the Espar.

avanti 08-13-2016 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wincrasher (Post 47154)
All that is true.

But cost is a factor in this market segment I'm sure.

Yes. And, there is also the fact that the tank of propane contains 718,144 BTU vs 6,551 usable BTU for the 200Ah battery.

Depending on travel patterns, it might not matter for some, but for a lot of people it would.

nebulight 08-20-2016 02:25 AM

I'd love to see them make this van! This seems like a perfect rig. However as others have said, why not ditch propane all together and just go with a diesel heat system? Then do an underhood generator, 400amp lithium and tell me where to sign.

Keyne 08-20-2016 03:58 AM

I hope they make it too. If they decided to make it I wonder how long it takes to go from a prototype like this to an actual product? Anyone know how long the Travato took? With their capabilities hoping it could be months (6?) not years...

eric1514 08-20-2016 11:19 AM

How safe is having all that heating equipment hanging off the bottom of the van when you are parked offroad in the brush wrt forest fires?

wincrasher 08-20-2016 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyne (Post 47353)
I hope they make it too. If they decided to make it I wonder how long it takes to go from a prototype like this to an actual product? Anyone know how long the Travato took? With their capabilities hoping it could be months (6?) not years...

Travato took longer because it was a whole new product category. You have to plan supply chain and production space. That took about a year & half. Plus the approval/decision making process to get going based on feedback from all the shows. They actually had to bring over a Ducato to build the prototye on (interestingly, they were required to crush that vehicle because it couldn't be sold in NA).

Adding a Sprinter product is alot less if you can fit it into existing production. Mostly the time to develop the concept vehicle. Largely this would be a parts bin model with a small number of new parts.

But they have no plans to build this believe me. It's solely to gauge feedback. They have no production space for this vehicle.

What they ARE planning to build is the Transit B product. They showed us the changes in the production line for it. Now we are just waiting on the big reveal at the RV shows.

Davydd 08-20-2016 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eric1514 (Post 47354)
How safe is having all that heating equipment hanging off the bottom of the van when you are parked offroad in the brush wrt forest fires?

No different than that internal combustion engine in the front and the exhaust pipe to the back.

rockymtnb 08-21-2016 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wincrasher (Post 47355)
But they have no plans to build this believe me. It's solely to gauge feedback...

Although it's worth noting the second to last question on Winnebago's survey form was 'Would you like to be notified when this vehicle becomes available?'

Of course that doesn't guarantee the 4x4 concept vehicle will get to production. But it certainly indicates a fairly high level of interest and product planning. And they did invest the time and effort to build a prototype and publicly present it at national trade shows. Last time they did that was the Travato prototype on the imported Ducato chassis.

But it will probably take some time. As Wincrasher noted the Travato took a year and a half. The Transit has taken a couple years from chassis introduction to apparent Winnebago production this fall. And Sprinter 4x4's are still limited production with factory orders requiring up to 11 months lead time; that may not improve much until Sprinter US production begins at the Charleston SC plant.

Overall I would say the signs appear rather positive. Winnebago seems quite aware that the adventure market is different than the traditional RV retirement market, and seems to be directing their efforts towards that target.

BBQ 09-14-2016 06:41 PM

Looks fun


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3NcK5Bnyck

BBQ 09-20-2016 06:20 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LGJxDbIPnU#t=126.957

GeorgeB 11-04-2016 08:51 PM

What do you think of that bold statement?

...
Despite being the world leader in volume terms, the US motorhome market lags behind much of the rest of the western world in terms of product diversity and innovation. An example is the recent display of a Winnebago 4x4 Sprinter van conversion...
...
iMotorhome magazine, August 2016
https://issuu.com/imotorhome/docs/is...magazine_____2


https://photos.smugmug.com/PERSO-GL/.../i-88sFRCN.png


!

IMO the most innovative camper in the last year to come from big manufacturers

The Winnebago concept 4x4 Sprinter camper on my Kampervan FB page

https://www.facebook.com/kampervanfu...07603536167060

https://photos.smugmug.com/PERSO-GL/.../i-3JxRghH.png


.

nebulight 11-04-2016 09:00 PM

Well the article is actually pretty true. That floorplan is VERY popular every where else in the world. The 59G was the first intro to that style of floor plan, but the 4x4 is more of a traditional "euro" style floorplan.

The US market usually has a couch that reclines to a bed that seems to be more popular with the older RVer. I think this makes sense as if you look at Roadtrek or Leisure Travel, those vans are 6 figures in the US. Where as a floorplan like the 4x4 concept is more attractive to younger people who don't mind jumping up into bed if they can store their gear inside the van. The "euro" type of floorplan seems to be more popular with the younger crowd (I still consider myself in that age range at 33) as the appeal for the RV is to travel and do more outdoors activities rather than to just park at an RV park. And in europe, a fully fitted van will run you around 50,000 euro, so much cheaper than a van in the US so younger people can afford to buy.

Keyne 11-05-2016 02:33 AM

I would literally buy this tomorrow at my local WGO if they would build it.

ClassB4Me 11-05-2016 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyne (Post 50326)
I would literally buy this tomorrow at my local WGO if they would build it.

So would I....

WGO has 90% of the components they need to take their product line to the next level.

They have a great supplier base and are innovative. I wish they would acquire a company like Bruder X to learn how to extend their product lines to support adventure camping. As has been mentioned, WGO can always start with an affordable adventure-focused range and move upward if the market exists.

Off-grid is the future and WGO should be prepared to offer the suite of products (HVAC, Bathroom, and Power) to support those uses.

21st century WGO should be capable of producing a production-like version (refined) of what Sportsmobile offers to a mass audience and be profitable.

Marley 11-05-2016 04:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keyne (Post 50326)
I would literally buy this tomorrow at my local WGO if they would build it.

I am also a candidate for something similar. Nothing so far I have seen has suited what I want - or at least, think i want.


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