1996 Dodge B3500 steering issues

Blueboy1

Advanced Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2019
Posts
64
Location
Quebec
Hi, there
For all of you having problems solving the steering wanders, there are some new facts that could help us save a lot of money. I did my self quite a few mods on my rig (Spacers, stabilizer , air bags and tires ) and this leaded to big improvements but still there still some slack on my steering wheel from 11:AM to 1PM. I found a video on Youtube from a dedicated mechanic suggesting that the main problem could be related to a bad coupling joint on the lower part of the steering shaft and he did a setup to prove it. I strongly suggest you have a look !
. I had exactly that problem so I ordered 2 bushings from EMF Ball joint made specifically to correct the problem. I will keep you up on my work since I have already removed my steering shaft and doing so found out that the u-joint was also bad. Althought the mechanic test was done for a 2010 Dodge ram, I can already tell you that the bushings work on my 1996 B3500 and the coupling joint is the same
 
Hi, there, here is an update on my steering shaft rework. 2
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pictures showing the coupling joint before and after the insertion of the compensation bushings. The joint is now completely sturdy. I will post later the u-joint replacement with the part number
 
Hi BB. Nice to see that you're still out there doing upgrades. It will be interesting to hear about steering changes after this procedure. I've always experienced "light" steering at highway speeds. We're you experiencing the symptoms of the video? In other words, were you getting steering wheel play before turning the steering wheel would result in turning the road wheels? Best always, Glenn
 
Exactly, I had precisely the problem demonstrated in the video. The reverse effect is also true when for exemple after a big gust of wind or a passing trailer truck the van would shift sideway even though I had my hands on the steering wheel . Normally the fact that I would hold the steering should only require a slight force to keep the van in line but the freeplay would then require not only pressure but a serious correction leading to the van wandering on the road. The other step is the replacement of a bad u-joint but since the steering shaft assembly is impossible to find at least for 1995-1997 I have no choice but to rebuild the part. The yoke for the u-joint will have to be reamed to 15mm to accomodate a more standard u-joint since the OEM joint is also impossible to find . I should be able to complete the process by next week and I will keep you posted.
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I think that tightening any looseness in the steering mechanisms is never a bad thing and can make wind push feel better to at least some degree, it is not really the root cause of wind push, IMO.

Wind push is primarily a function of physics and forces on the vehicle. Basically, a tire rolling straight ahead will move some amount sideways if any crossforce is put on it, like sidewind in the case of van wind push. This the commonly referred to slip angle that is the direction the tire goes compared to direction it is pointed.

The big problem in our vans is that the front has less weight and thus less traction on the front than the rear so that the front is more prone to moving further than the rear by a sideforce. This is the understeer term we hear a lot, where the vehicle will slide out on sharp turn with front sliding before the rear. How much force the front and rear is determined by the "center of pressure" of the vehicle, and that is just like center of gravity but for wind forces. The balance of the traction front and rear in relation to the sideforce of the wind and location of the center of pressure determine how much each end sees and moves over.

Tighter steering doesn't change the forces, but can reduce the amount of travel the steering wheel has to turn to move you back in a straight line which for most people makes the van easier to track straighter. Big steering wheel corrections tend to not be all that accurate compared to smaller ones, I think.

Understeer can be addressed by increasing front traction by adding stiffer springs and shocks in the rear, and especially big rear swaybars, based on my experience with our van and other vehicles. Higher front tire pressure also increases front traction to a point.

In an understeering vehicle the front will move over more than the rear in a crosswind so not only do you need to correct you position on the road, you need to correct the actual direction you are pointed and that makes it more difficult to do correctly in winds that aren't consistent.

Minimizing understeer so you get a front/rear balance of traction that is better makes it all easier. The van still is going to move over some, but the corrections get much smaller and easier to do so you don't notice you moved over as much. The van rocking from the sidewind and the associated changes in front steering position are separate but also helped by the same spring stiffening and rear swaybars.

I am not big fan of AI research but this one that came up on Google is not bad at summarizing 3 articles that are very tech and math intensive.

A vehicle susceptible to understeer can have its handling and stability significantly impacted by side winds
.


Here's how side winds interact with understeering vehicles:

1. Increased front tire slip angle

  • Side winds push the vehicle laterally, particularly at the front.
  • This lateral force increases the slip angle of the front tires, meaning they are pointed further than the direction they are actually traveling.
  • When a vehicle is already prone to understeer, this increased front slip angle can exacerbate the loss of front tire grip, leading to a wider turning radius than intended.
2. Reduced yaw stability
  • Crosswinds exert a yawing moment (a twisting force) on the vehicle, pushing it sideways and rotating it around its vertical axis.
  • This yawing moment can be particularly destabilizing for vehicles with a forward center of pressure (aerodynamic center) and those already prone to understeer.
  • The driver needs to make corrective steering inputs to counter this yawing moment and maintain the desired path, which can further highlight the understeer tendency.
3. Interaction with vehicle speed
  • The effect of side wind forces and the resulting understeer tendency increase significantly with vehicle speed.
  • Higher speeds make the aerodynamic forces more dominant, meaning that drivers need to be especially cautious in crosswinds.
4. Other contributing factors

  • Tire condition: Worn tires with low tread or improper inflation can further reduce grip and exacerbate understeer under side wind conditions.
  • Suspension settings: A softer suspension can increase body roll and pitch, potentially making the vehicle more susceptible to understeer and the effects of crosswinds.
  • Vehicle type: Vehicles with a larger frontal area, like SUVs or vans, are more significantly impacted by side winds due to the increased surface area for the wind to push against.
In summary
Understeering vehicles are particularly vulnerable to the effects of side winds, experiencing increased front tire slip angles, reduced yaw stability, and amplified destabilization at higher speeds. Factors like tire condition, suspension settings, and vehicle type also play a role in how a vehicle responds to these side wind push forces.
 
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I am happy to report completion of the steering shaft overhaul. Just put in the new U-joint for which I had to improvise a blocking system since the Oem part was not serviceable so the U-joint did'nt have any retainer or C-clip , just punch mark to hold it in place. I mounted the new joint in Loctite 609, (bearing & sleeve retainer and added 8/32 ss screws as a mean of safety retainer. First ride tonight 40 kilometers and so far it is the biggest improvement I have implemented on this van since the addition of rear spacers. I drove all the ride with 2 fingers on the steering wheel. (never did that before). I strongly suggest that you inspect your steering shaft if you drive a 95-97 model . Thank for reading my post.
 
Looks like it will work fine, and good that you are happy with the results. It will be interesting to hear how it goes on all the varying roads with grooves, pitches, varying crown, etc plus of course the ever present wind and trucks passing.
 
Hi, I know that it will not be of any effects on wind gust and truck passing but my feeling is that the corrective reaction against the previous will be faster and more effective. Thank you for your comment . I happen to know that this coupling joint was used on other Dodge van (years) that may have a different steering shaft . The joint could also be present on the upper part of the shaft under the dash .
 
Hi, I know that it will not be of any effects on wind gust and truck passing but my feeling is that the corrective reaction against the previous will be faster and more effective. Thank you for your comment . I happen to know that this coupling joint was used on other Dodge van (years) that may have a different steering shaft . The joint could also be present on the upper part of the shaft under the dash .
Totally agree on the wind thing. As mentioned tightens up the amount of steering input, which is what you have done, so the response is better and you get better feel.

In the street rods and customs we see a lot of the two universal joint, custom made, steering shafts and for some reason they seem to fail faster than the one upper u joint and a rag joint at the gear setups. When I restored my 96 Roadmaster wagon a few years ago it over 20 years old and 135K miles in a 5K# car and both the u joint and rag joint were tight, but I replaced the ragjoint as it looked like it might be getting ready to shred, and I could still get a GM original joint.
 
Totally agree on the wind thing. As mentioned tightens up the amount of steering input, which is what you have done, so the response is better and you get better feel.

In the street rods and customs we see a lot of the two universal joint, custom made, steering shafts and for some reason they seem to fail faster than the one upper u joint and a rag joint at the gear setups. When I restored my 96 Roadmaster wagon a few years ago it over 20 years old and 135K miles in a 5K# car and both the u joint and rag joint were tight, but I replaced the ragjoint as it looked like it might be getting ready to shred, and I could still get a GM original joint.
About wind gust and passing trucks, I did a 200 Kilometers ride this week with good side winds and I can tell you that the steering shaft overhaul did improve the behaviour of the van by 50% in these specific conditions. Maybe related to the fraction of seconds I was loosing with the freeplay but the fact that I am now putting constant force on the steering gear input is more likely the answer
 
Not surprising results with how loose yours looked like it was at the ujoint.

Those milliseconds before the tires start to react is exactly the point, plus those times are covering no load steering play so you have momentum when you do get to reaction point. That momentum can cause overshooting the ideal point for a clean response so you get the constant oscillation back and forth. You can't get rid of all the delay because have to overcome the sidewall twist of the tire before the tread moves (slip angle). The worst conditions, IMO, for wind are when you have a side wind and trees, particularly thick pines like we have rows of around here, along side the road. Whenever you come to a gap in the trees you get a big blast of wind that pushes the van over and as you are correcting the wind suddenly goes away when the gap does and you move too much. A lot of the highways here are like that, and when you get one that also has deep tire grooves also, you have got a very good test of how well the van is handling.

Now that you have the van reacting to you properly, you will be more able to decide on if you want to address the understeering to try and reduce the initial movement you are trying to correct. This where tire pressures, spring rates, shock rates, swaybars, and alignment settings all come into play.
 
Not surprising results with how loose yours looked like it was at the ujoint.

Those milliseconds before the tires start to react is exactly the point, plus those times are covering no load steering play so you have momentum when you do get to reaction point. That momentum can cause overshooting the ideal point for a clean response so you get the constant oscillation back and forth. You can't get rid of all the delay because have to overcome the sidewall twist of the tire before the tread moves (slip angle). The worst conditions, IMO, for wind are when you have a side wind and trees, particularly thick pines like we have rows of around here, along side the road. Whenever you come to a gap in the trees you get a big blast of wind that pushes the van over and as you are correcting the wind suddenly goes away when the gap does and you move too much. A lot of the highways here are like that, and when you get one that also has deep tire grooves also, you have got a very good test of how well the van is handling.

Now that you have the van reacting to you properly, you will be more able to decide on if you want to address the understeering to try and reduce the initial movement you are trying to correct. This where tire pressures, spring rates, shock rates, swaybars, and alignment settings all come into play.
The loose in the coupling joint is not all related to metal wear. The hole oversize vs the pin is OEM and is considered normal up to a certain point, the excessive freeplay is caused by the age of the rubber bushing inside (the vibration dampening function). When the rubber is new the pin can not move that far in the oversize hole.
 
This the final touch for my lower steering shaft upgrade. After validation of the mods I've made on the old shaft I decided to replace everything with brand new parts . I used Borgenson vibration dampening 3/4"-30 spline 1"DD u-joint at the steering box and a cut to length Borgenson 1" DD shaft. All I have left to do is a couple of paint coats and everything will be bolted back in place . I am kind of proud for this improvement as the original part was nowhere to be found and since the OEM design had flaws replacing it would have been a lost of money anyway. Have a nice day to all of you !
 

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