2000 RT GFCI: ALL power goes to it first before converter breakers?

[JeffGalan]

I just discovered ALL the shore power in my RT is routed thru the kitchen GFCI outlet which means if it goes that’s it for power.

This happened this week.

I had many RVs and never ever heard of this routing of all power to the GFCI first. At least in other RVs if a GFCI went bad you still had shore power elsewhere but in RT YOU DON’T.

Kinda a dumb way to route this.

Any ideas why they did it like this cause I had zero power 2 days at my RV park and no I don’t mess with these wires especially ones coming in that are 30 amps.

Thank you for help.

 

[JeffGalan]

Pic of two separate large wires going into the GFCI

 

[Johnnyfry]

I just discovered ALL the shore power in my RT is routed thru the kitchen GFCI outlet which means if it goes that’s it for power.

This happened this week.

I had many RVs and never ever heard of this routing of all power to the GFCI first. At least in other RVs if a GFCI went bad you still had shore power elsewhere but in RT YOU DON’T.

Kinda a dumb way to route this.

Any ideas why they did it like this cause I had zero power 2 days at my RV park and no I don’t mess with these wires especially ones coming in that are 30 amps.

Thank you for help.

That makes no sense to me, unless your RT is wired much differently than most, Typically the shore power enters the main AC/DC panel through a 30 amp circuit breaker. It is distributed through several breakers below the main 30A. There should be a breaker for the Fridge, one for the converter (or the TrippLite inverter charger if so equipped), one or two feeding the outlets. The outlet in the galley usually has a GFCI and subsequently feeds other outlets which all trip out together. The fridge and the converter should not be affected by the GFCI tripping. Mine is a later model and has the TrippLite inverter charger, so the kitchen outlet is fed through the TrippLite so that outlet can be powered by the inverter. Mine also has a GFCI in the bathroom above the sink and a third outside in the battery drawer. While I realize that RT wiring varried widely throughout the years, it seems odd that everything would go through the galley outlet as it has only a 15 amp capacity.

 

[JeffGalan]

That makes all sense but the last electrician who replaced this one told me they shore power goes thru this first plus we followed those big wires on that pic I posted to the shore power but I agree what you said about 15 amp capacity.

But if this GFCI goes off there’s absolutely zero power anywhere else. All outlets. The refrigerator. So it’s definitely controlling all the power here.

I just popped it off to test again and there’s no power anywhere.


Refrigerator.
Kitchen outlet (the big GFCI)
The outlets in rear.
The outlets in the front behind drivers seat
And finally the outlet below the outside door.

All dead. Nada.

 

[Johnnyfry]

That makes all sense but the last electrician who replaced this one told me they shore power goes thru this first plus we followed those big wires on that pic I posted to the shore power but I agree what you said about 15 amp capacity.

But if this GFCI goes off there’s absolutely zero power anywhere else. All outlets. The refrigerator. So it’s definitely controlling all the power here.

I just popped it off to test again and there’s no power anywhere.


Refrigerator.
Kitchen outlet (the big GFCI)
The outlets in rear.
The outlets in the front behind drivers seat
And finally the outlet below the outside door.

All dead. Nada.

It would appear that someone (previous owner, perhaps?) bypassed the main panel and brought the shore power directly to the outlet in question. What to do? I would open the power panel cover and look to see if you have a 30 amp main breaker. If that is the case, what is connected to it? If you have a generator, (you didn't say) there should be a 3x#8 AWG running to a transfer switch. From the transfer box cables should run to the generator and to the shore power inlet. Possibly the transfer relay went out at some point in the past and the owner simply picked a point to attach the shore power cable. The only way to get to the bottom of the problem is to follow the wires to see where they end up. It really does not sound like a factory original set up.

 

[JeffGalan]

It would appear that someone (previous owner, perhaps?) bypassed the main panel and brought the shore power directly to the outlet in question. What to do? I would open the power panel cover and look to see if you have a 30 amp main breaker. If that is the case, what is connected to it? If you have a generator, (you didn't say) there should be a 3x#8 AWG running to a transfer switch. From the transfer box cables should run to the generator and to the shore power inlet. Possibly the transfer relay went out at some point in the past and the owner simply picked a point to attach the shore power cable. The only way to get to the bottom of the problem is to follow the wires to see where they end up. It really does not sound like a factory original set up.

Thx for the reply. No Gen.

I dunno if and why any other owners would do that but possible I suppose.

It’s putting people at a bad place with no power if the gfi thing goes out which happened to me at the rv park last year. Two days no power till I found an electrician.

It’s just very odd cause no other rv I had or know of has this dumb arrangement

 

[RossWilliams]

The most likely reason would be they wanted gfci protection for some or all the circuits and that was the easiest way to get it.

 

[JeffGalan]

The most likely reason would be they wanted gfci protection for some or all the circuits and that was the easiest way to get it.

Yes that seems it.

I’m ok with that because it don’t really affect me until it goes out then no power.

I think that last time I sat there two days with no power until a tech came along is ingrained in my mind. I opened it up then and saw way way too many wires so I closed it up for a pro to do the job. Thnx for your input.

 

[RossWilliams]

Its also possible someone replaced the GFCI and changed the wiring inadvertently by using the GFCI connectors to continue the circuit instead of wiring it in parallel. That would mean fixing it only requires a minor rewiring of the GFCI. You would lose any of it's GFCI protection on the other circuits but they may have their own anyway.

 

[JeffGalan]

Its also possible someone replaced the GFCI and changed the wiring inadvertently by using the GFCI connectors to continue the circuit instead of wiring it in parallel. That would mean fixing it only requires a minor rewiring of the GFCI. You would lose any of it's GFCI protection on the other circuits but they may have their own anyway.

Oh that makes sense too.

I think I’ll ask my rv guy about it because he’ll be doing my AC swap which I’m glad It’s not a roof unit and just one I can get at Walmart etc. That makes it way cheaper than those rooftop ones for sure

 

[booster]

Yes that seems it.

I’m ok with that because it don’t really affect me until it goes out then no power.

I think that last time I sat there two days with no power until a tech came along is ingrained in my mind. I opened it up then and saw way way too many wires so I closed it up for a pro to do the job. Thnx for your input.

As others have said, it would be very unusual to be wired that way.

How many amps is the GFCI rated for? A pic of the GFCI might help understand better.

When I rewired our 0/ Roadtrk 190, I did put most, not all, the circuits, on GFCI but by using multiple GFCI breakers. I don't recall seeing any GFCI outlets over 20 amps and that takes a 12 ga cable. 20 amps is marginal at best for whole coach.

The shore power cable from the post and to the breaker box is normally 10ga. and would go to a transfer switch if there is a need to change sources to generator or inverter. Then the output of that would go to the breaker box.

We are missing something here, as it makes little sense as far as I can tell.

Tracking the shore cable from van entry to the breakers would really be helpful, including the make/model of any components that it connects to.

What did the tech do to get it working?

 

[JeffGalan]

The last tech traced all the shore power coming in right to that GFCI. I was there with him looking at. It goes up into the wall just behind the microwave then into that storage thing outside to the 30 amp wire to the plug.

I don’t know what it’s rated as sorry. The one he put in there.

The tech just replaced the GFCI with a new one then we had power.

I think the one he replaced was the original.

Here’s some pix.

There’s two black thick wires that go into it that is clamped.

 

[JeffGalan]

Here’s another pic of the outside following the 30 amp power right into the area where the GFCI is

 

[booster]

Here’s another pic of the outside following the 30 amp power right into the area where the GFCI is

That looks like it is a 15 or 20 amp GFCI so if nothing bypasses it, that is all power you will have. Could be tough with AC on and trying to run anything else.

 

[JeffGalan]

That looks like it is a 15 or 20 amp GFCI so if nothing bypasses it, that is all power you will have. Could be tough with AC on and trying to run anything else.

So you mean there’s not 30 amps going in here??

Hmm.

I’ve used the AC and microwave at same time. Though it’s only 8000 btu (used 660 w) but microwave is 1209 w.

But when I opened it up when it broke the first time there’s definitely more wires in there than a typical 15 amp electrical plate thing.

I need other RT people that have this specific setup to verify. That was really kinda my original concern here, which was…. Are all the RTs this era like this.

So how many total watts are there if only 15 amps?

1800 is it?


I guess I can test it.
I’m curious.

I have two electric heaters.

I can put them on with the AC and microwave and see if they run.

Thx for the reply.

 

[JeffGalan]

I just did the test

Microwave on

AC on high

1500 w heater on

650 w heater on

Refrigerator on (uses 148 w)

Two cell phone plugged into PD 60w

Nothing happened with shutting down

They all worked fine.

So I really dunno what’s going on here with this wiring

 

[booster]

It sounds like there is bypassing in there someplace like nearly all other vans.

 

[JeffGalan]

Ok good thx.

So when that GFCI pops why is all the power out?

Everywhere

Can other RT owners confirm this as well??
Thanks.

 

[booster]

Ok good thx.

So when that GFCI pops why is all the power out?

Everywhere

Can other RT owners confirm this as well??
Thanks.

That is a good question, and perhaps because there is no generator a previous owner connected the whole panel to that gfci. The gfci will not trip on current if overloaded AFAIK and you still need the right breaker besides the gfci. I the whole van is on that outlet it is likely overloaded with numerous breakers downstream that add up to over 20amps, which normal for just an AC circuit.

I can't imagine any Roadtrek being made that way.

 

[JeffGalan]

Thanks. That all makes sense.

So you think that I have the full 30 amps to use I’m guessing based on my test?

I could get one of those surge protectors that show total watts I guess to see but I think it’s definitely more than the 15 amps or 20.