2000 RT GFCI: ALL power goes to it first before converter breakers?

[booster]

I just looked at the owners manuals for both the 2000 Dodges and Chevies.

The only gfci reference is in both and says if the frig quits working to check the gfci in the driver side lounge box.

To me that would indicate only the frig was on gfci, probably because it can be accessed from outside the van.

This would further back up the idea that it as been poorly rewired to put all outlets on the single gfci.

IMO, the best to do would be to wire it back stock and if you want gfci on the other replace the oulets wiyh gfci ones.

 

[JeffGalan]

Yes the refrigerator outside has a plug.

It’s odd if it was indeed rewired. I’m not questioning you but I got it from this one owner elderly couple that were very very transparent with every detail of the RT.

I think he would have mentioned it, but you never know.

The tech that came here to fix the original GFCI said by the looks of it, it’s the original one from 1999. So I dunno if anything was rerouted, might be.

It’s baffling to me. But again the biggest thing concern is the lack of power in the entire unit if the life of one GFCI ends. Which happened once.

 

[Captain Longbeard]

I need to jump in as a 20-year master electrician. The picture from the exterior showing the 30A power shows what looks to be an "SO" cord (or some variation), which has a very thick smooth rubber exterior insulation on it, and note that the exterior diameter of that cable is around 3/4" give or take. The photo of the GFCI outlet box shows two ribbed wire looms going into what could be at best a 3/4" trade size connector, but perhaps even only a 1/2". Regardless, there is no way that the exterior so cord would fit inside one of those wire looms, and still fit into the connector. I will be more than willing to be proven wrong, but I think that it would be helpful to know exactly what is inside of the GFCI outlet box. I am questioning what is being said by the techs and what is being translated to us.

Also, regardless of how it might have ended up this way, if the 30A shore power does indeed go through that outlet, this should NOT be left that way under at all!!! The 30A shore power MUST go to a 30A circuit breaker FIRST, end of discussion. If it doesn't, then measures need to be taken immediately to correct it. This makes me think that the RV technician who replaced the GFCI is not qualified to be working on RV electrical. Makes me question why the GFCI needed to be replaced in the first place.

Running more than the rated current through any device (switch, basic receptacle, GFCI, etc) will cause damage, and that damage could be minor, such as a melted conctact within the divice with almost no visible damage to the exterior of the device, to the worst case scenario that it causes a fire and burns the whole RV to the ground.

I can not stree this enough - the 30A shore power must NOT run directly to the GFCI, and MUST go to a 30A circuit breaker first. I think that this situation warrants further investigation to verify exactly what is going on, and it needs to be done by someone with proper electrical knowledge.

 

[JeffGalan]

Thanks for the detailed reply!

The electrical tech that came said this was the original setup by RT. He followed all the wires to the converter with all the circuit breakers.

I dunno. I’m more confused than ever now.
I doubt any qualified tech or electrician would set this up in this way as it’s not right. The original owner said no work like that was ever done. He had EVERY receipt of all work and was very very transparent in everything done to this RT.

So does it 100% mean that if that GFCI goes off and there’s no power to any outlets, the 30 amp is going thru it? There might still be power to the converter? I dunno.

Why else would all power to all outlets go out if the 30 amp isn’t going thru it?

Really wish other RT owners would jump in with pix of their cable coming in to the GFCI to see if they are all wired like this.

 

[booster]

I need to jump in as a 20-year master electrician. The picture from the exterior showing the 30A power shows what looks to be an "SO" cord (or some variation), which has a very thick smooth rubber exterior insulation on it, and note that the exterior diameter of that cable is around 3/4" give or take. The photo of the GFCI outlet box shows two ribbed wire looms going into what could be at best a 3/4" trade size connector, but perhaps even only a 1/2". Regardless, there is no way that the exterior so cord would fit inside one of those wire looms, and still fit into the connector. I will be more than willing to be proven wrong, but I think that it would be helpful to know exactly what is inside of the GFCI outlet box. I am questioning what is being said by the techs and what is being translated to us.

Also, regardless of how it might have ended up this way, if the 30A shore power does indeed go through that outlet, this should NOT be left that way under at all!!! The 30A shore power MUST go to a 30A circuit breaker FIRST, end of discussion. If it doesn't, then measures need to be taken immediately to correct it. This makes me think that the RV technician who replaced the GFCI is not qualified to be working on RV electrical. Makes me question why the GFCI needed to be replaced in the first place.

Running more than the rated current through any device (switch, basic receptacle, GFCI, etc) will cause damage, and that damage could be minor, such as a melted conctact within the divice with almost no visible damage to the exterior of the device, to the worst case scenario that it causes a fire and burns the whole RV to the ground.

I can not stree this enough - the 30A shore power must NOT run directly to the GFCI, and MUST go to a 30A circuit breaker first. I think that this situation warrants further investigation to verify exactly what is going on, and it needs to be done by someone with proper electrical knowledge.

Yes, yes, and YES! While you were typing, I was sketching what I think he has currently and what I think it may have been OEM.

Be aware these look they were done by a toddler. I am a "bit" older than that but just had rotator cuff surgery and ruptured bicep tendon reattachment surgery so printing left handed.

I someone wants to do them more legibly that would be great.

Here is a typical, I think, system from the period.

And then what I think the OP has.

Absolutely needs to be fixed if that is how it really is wired, before using. Not worth the risk of fire.

The tech should have caught it also, so pretty odd.

 

[JeffGalan]

Yes, yes, and YES! While you were typing, I was sketching what I think he has currently and what I think it may have been OEM.

Be aware these look they were done by a toddler. I am a "bit" older than that but just had rotator cuff surgery and ruptured bicep tendon reattachment surgery so printing left handed.

I someone wants to do them more legibly that would be great.

Here is a typical, I think, system from the period.

And then what I think the OP has.

Absolutely needs to be fixed if that is how it really is wired, before using. Not worth the risk of fire.

The tech should have caught it also, so pretty odd.

View attachment 868143View attachment 868144

Yes, yes, and YES! While you were typing, I was sketching what I think he has currently and what I think it may have been OEM.

Be aware these look they were done by a toddler. I am a "bit" older than that but just had rotator cuff surgery and ruptured bicep tendon reattachment surgery so printing left handed.

I someone wants to do them more legibly that would be great.

Here is a typical, I think, system from the period.

And then what I think the OP has.

Absolutely needs to be fixed if that is how it really is wired, before using. Not worth the risk of fire.

The tech should have caught it also, so pretty odd.

View attachment 868143View attachment 868144WOW you’re good!!

Maybe. We missed something with the key tech saying the 30 amp all goes FROM the pedestal to the GFCI.

Maybe those thick two wires are coming FROM the Converter TO the GFCI and he got it reversed.

There’s been no electrical work done on this RT whatsoever ex the GFCI changed.

I even called the owners just now of it because we’re going to the same Church now and he said all the work is in the folder he gave me which I looked at several times.
And he told me no re routing of wires was ever done

I dunno I’m confused.
The only person who said the 30 a was going thru it first was the tech that changed it last time. Maybe he was in error.

I dunno. I’m very very confused now.
Wish I didn’t make this post

 

[booster]

I think it is very good that you made the post so you can find out what is going on. It could be a high risk hazard, so you needto know.

What we do know, I think is that all 30amps is going through the gfci and is not fused. The only way this could be wrong is if the gfci is powering a relay somewhere, it appears, and that is unlikely.

I think you are in Arizona?

Perhaps there is a member near you who could take a quick at your van.

You have a pretty basic old school van so should be pretty easy to straighten out, once figured out.

Those vans may not have had even a small inverter, so no AC from batteries to mix it up.

 

[JeffGalan]

I think it is very good that you made the post so you can find out what is going on. It could be a high risk hazard, so you needto know.

What we do know, I think is that all 30amps is going through the gfci and is not fused. The only way this could be wrong is if the gfci is powering a relay somewhere, it appears, and that is unlikely.

I think you are in Arizona?

Perhaps there is a member near you who could take a quick at your van.

You have a pretty basic old school van so should be pretty easy to straighten out, once figured out.

Those vans may not have had even a small inverter, so no AC from batteries to mix it up.

Thank you much.

I just asked a member here at the park to have a look. He’s older retired with electrical experience

He said there’s no way 30 amp is going to the GFCI THEN to the breakers. I showed him the wire lining up with the outside and the GFCI.

He thinks that it goes to the converter then to the GFCI as it should.

Me and the tech are the ones that said it LOOKS like it’s the other way around based on what we see. But that 30 a must go to the converter first then to GFCI. It just APPEARS from direction and the location of the wires that it DOESNT.

Then I said. Then why when this GFCI is turned off is all the outlets inoperable?
He said cause they are all on that one circuit.

But in larger RVS they still have power in other areas if one GFCI goes but not in RT. I’m guessing because it’s small.

I guess when it is off there’s still power going to the converter if it is wired correctly which it is now that I talked to the owner and this electrician guy at the park.

Is there a way to test if there’s power somewhere else when this main GFCI goes out?

Also I still think it’s a terrible idea to have every outlet dependent on one GFCI. Which was the original subject of this post of sitting in a rv park two days with no power waiting for a tech to come to fix the GFCI. I opened it up but WAY WAY too many wires for me to attempt a fix.

Another quick question.

Why is this GFCI have a box behind it when all the others are just a plate?

I guess it’s because there’s so many wires in there unlike the others

 

[booster]

Interesting. I thought that the shore power cord had been tracked to the gfci? This is from earlier.

"The last tech traced all the shore power coming in right to that GFCI. I was there with him looking at. It goes up into the wall just behind the microwave then into that storage thing outside to the 30 amp wire to the plug."

 

[Captain Longbeard]

I am glad to hear you got good info! Let me shed some light:

In a residential kitchen, you might have half a dozen to a dozen outlets that are powered by two or three circuits. Each circuit only needs one GFCI to protect the remainder of the outlets down the line. It is this same concept that RVs use when being wired. Small Class B RVs don't have a lot of room in them, so manufacturers don't expect a lot of power usage by the users and only use one circuit for all of the outlets. The concept of their compact size is one of the reasons Class B RVs are oftern referred to as "Camper" vans instead of RVs. We all know that RVers are a diverse bunch, so there are those of us who do want to use more power, and will face the challenges of doing that in these smaller units.

One option would be to replace each standard outlet with a GFCI, but this requires the origional to be rewired slightly so that the others don't shut off when it does. This is generally considered "cost-prohibitive" because each GFCI costs significantly more than a regular outlet, plus the time it takes to replace them all. There is also the fact that GFCI outlets need to be readily accessible, meaning that you shouldn't have to use any tools or move heavy furniture to get to them. However, this would prevent the entire circuit from shutting off if one trips.

As far as doing further testing to find out if there is power elsewhere when the main GFCI is tripped is complicated. Perhaps others with more intimate knowlege of this particular model can help (and referr to the drawings that were provided by booster), but often simple trial and error will help. You can simply trip the GFCI (or shut off the circuit breaker), and go around testing stuff, but do it methodically, and take notes. Having an understanding of RV electrical systems, including both 120-volt and 12-volt, and how they interact, is important to understand what does and does not affect each-other.

 

[JeffGalan]

Interesting. I thought that the shore power cord had been tracked to the gfci? This is from earlier.

"The last tech traced all the shore power coming in right to that GFCI. I was there with him looking at. It goes up into the wall just behind the microwave then into that storage thing outside to the 30 amp wire to the plug."

That’s correct. That’s what the last tech said. But he’s the only one who told be this so I believed him at that time.

But after this post, especially from the electrician guy, contacting the original owner, all you guys posts, and the electrician in the park this morning, I think he was in error.

It can’t be the way get said because NO certified tech or electrician nor RT itself would ever make an electrical setup this way.

 

[JeffGalan]

I am glad to hear you got good info! Let me shed some light:

In a residential kitchen, you might have half a dozen to a dozen outlets that are powered by two or three circuits. Each circuit only needs one GFCI to protect the remainder of the outlets down the line. It is this same concept that RVs use when being wired. Small Class B RVs don't have a lot of room in them, so manufacturers don't expect a lot of power usage by the users and only use one circuit for all of the outlets. The concept of their compact size is one of the reasons Class B RVs are oftern referred to as "Camper" vans instead of RVs. We all know that RVers are a diverse bunch, so there are those of us who do want to use more power, and will face the challenges of doing that in these smaller units.

One option would be to replace each standard outlet with a GFCI, but this requires the origional to be rewired slightly so that the others don't shut off when it does. This is generally considered "cost-prohibitive" because each GFCI costs significantly more than a regular outlet, plus the time it takes to replace them all. There is also the fact that GFCI outlets need to be readily accessible, meaning that you shouldn't have to use any tools or move heavy furniture to get to them. However, this would prevent the entire circuit from shutting off if one trips.

As far as doing further testing to find out if there is power elsewhere when the main GFCI is tripped is complicated. Perhaps others with more intimate knowlege of this particular model can help (and referr to the drawings that were provided by booster), but often simple trial and error will help. You can simply trip the GFCI (or shut off the circuit breaker), and go around testing stuff, but do it methodically, and take notes. Having an understanding of RV electrical systems, including both 120-volt and 12-volt, and how they interact, is important to understand what does and does not affect each-other.

Thank you. That’s exactly what I thought. We don’t have much room so there’s just one circuit for all.

I guess I’ll leave everything the way it is.

I’m convinced I got bad info from that one tech after all the replies I got here.

It’s just kinda unsettling that if this one goes out which hopefully it won’t that I’ll have zero power.

Thank you for your time in this reply.

 

[booster]

You may want to get a combination outlet and gfci tester. Cheap and check wiring corectness and have button to push to trip a gfci if there is one in the circuit.

tester

also at any home center or hardware store

 

[JeffGalan]

You may want to get a combination outlet and gfci tester. Cheap and check wiring corectness and have button to push to trip a gfci if there is one in the circuit.

tester

also at any home center or hardware store

Very nice! Thank you for the link and idea to test it. .

 

[Scottie409]

I just discovered ALL the shore power in my RT is routed thru the kitchen GFCI outlet which means if it goes that’s it for power.

This happened this week.

I had many RVs and never ever heard of this routing of all power to the GFCI first. At least in other RVs if a GFCI went bad you still had shore power elsewhere but in RT YOU DON’T.

Kinda a dumb way to route this.

Any ideas why they did it like this cause I had zero power 2 days at my RV park and no I don’t mess with these wires especially ones coming in that are 30 amps.

Thank you for help.

I have 2000 RT 200 and it has no GFCI recepticles anywhere

I just discovered ALL the shore power in my RT is routed thru the kitchen GFCI outlet which means if it goes that’s it for power.

This happened this week.

I had many RVs and never ever heard of this routing of all power to the GFCI first. At least in other RVs if a GFCI went bad you still had shore power elsewhere but in RT YOU DON’T.

Kinda a dumb way to route this.

Any ideas why they did it like this cause I had zero power 2 days at my RV park and no I don’t mess with these wires especially ones coming in that are 30 amps.

Thank you for help.

My 2000 RT 200 has no gfci recepticles at all.

 

[JeffGalan]

I have 2000 RT 200 and it has no GFCI recepticles anywhere

My 2000 RT 200 has no gfci recepticles at all.

Really? Interesting.

I wish I didn’t as well. Is a pain in the rear when this one went out and I had no power.

Mine look like they were OEM.

I’d opt for none if I could.

 

[Johnnyfry]

The last tech traced all the shore power coming in right to that GFCI. I was there with him looking at. It goes up into the wall just behind the microwave then into that storage thing outside to the 30 amp wire to the plug.

I don’t know what it’s rated as sorry. The one he put in there.

The tech just replaced the GFCI with a new one then we had power.

I think the one he replaced was the original.

Here’s some pix.

There’s two black thick wires that go into it that is clamped.

The GFI in that picture is a 15 ampere rated GFI.

 

[JeffGalan]

The GFI in that picture is a 15 ampere rated GFI.

Thanks

 

[wmgeorge]

I am going to guess that the outlets are wired that way, not the entire RT. The 30 amp #10 wires for one would not fit on a standard 20 amp GFI outlet. The 30 amp comes into a 30 amp panel and then branches off to the AC unit and battery charging circuit. I have done a lot of wiring in the years since 1962 and have worked in the field as a licensed electrician.
Added What Captain posted as he is a real electrician and the hand drawn diagram is correct. As for no GFI, I am guessing someone replaced it with a standard one. I have owned older RVs and they all had at least one that did feed others.

 

[JeffGalan]

I am going to guess that the outlets are wired that way, not the entire RT. The 30 amp #10 wires for one would not fit on a standard 20 amp GFI outlet. The 30 amp comes into a 30 amp panel and then branches off to the AC unit and battery charging circuit. I have done a lot of wiring in the years since 1962 and have worked in the field as a licensed electrician.
Added What Captain posted as he is a real electrician and the hand drawn diagram is correct. As for no GFI, I am guessing someone replaced it with a standard one. I have owned older RVs and they all had at least one that did feed others.

Thank you for the reply. I was only basing it all from one tech who was totally wrong that all power goes to the GFCI first which is never the case now that I know.

It does indeed look like that way however following the wire from the outside but can’t be