Boondocking black water questions

[thecove-ClassB]

HI all, Although we've had our 2005 Roadtrek 190 Popular for many years, we use it primarily for music festivals. Many of them are boondocking, and some even without pumping services. Our black water tank is only 9 gallons so.....4 days, no pumping (and more beer than I'd like to admit) So, we are starting to stretch the limits. We've managed fine for all of them (my husband will use the porta potties when he can...not me:-( BUT.....my question is.......is it safe to start out with the tank mostly empty (only a few flushes). I hate to waste 3 gallons of our precious black water capacity with "setting up".

Finally, we are in the process of upgrading to a newer 2022 Roadtrek Zion, it has a macerator.....any different tips for that? We typically use Camco Max liquid. I'm reading good things about Happy Camper.

Looking forward to all suggestions for our type of usage, 4 days, boondocking with no dumping facilities. Thanks

 

[GallenH]

I've used Happy Camper since I got my RV in 2016. Works well. I typically put one measure (comes with a measuring spoon) into about 1 gallon of water and pour into empty tank through toilet.

 

[thecove-ClassB]

Thanks....OK, so it works for you using just 1 gallon to start with, great. Most instructions say 3 gallons and I just don't want to start with that much just to prime it.

 

[booster]

HI all, Although we've had our 2005 Roadtrek 190 Popular for many years, we use it primarily for music festivals. Many of them are boondocking, and some even without pumping services. Our black water tank is only 9 gallons so.....4 days, no pumping (and more beer than I'd like to admit) So, we are starting to stretch the limits. We've managed fine for all of them (my husband will use the porta potties when he can...not me:-( BUT.....my question is.......is it safe to start out with the tank mostly empty (only a few flushes). I hate to waste 3 gallons of our precious black water capacity with "setting up".

Finally, we are in the process of upgrading to a newer 2022 Roadtrek Zion, it has a macerator.....any different tips for that? We typically use Camco Max liquid. I'm reading good things about Happy Camper.

Looking forward to all suggestions for our type of usage, 4 days, boondocking with no dumping facilities. Thanks

If you are going to start using the black tank right away I would not be concerned with a full cleanout routine. When we are out we just pump out the tanks, we have a macerator, and stop as soon as it pulses. That leaves enough in the pump so it won't stick. You will be putting stuff in it very soon, I imagine, so you could put your treatment in at the first or second flush.

If you really need more capacity, you could just get a small portable holding tank and pump into that. If you use a cassette type, you could probably even then dump it into the porta-potties.

 

[GeorgeRad]

Issue with low fluid in any black tank is distribution of solids, a mountain can be built-up under the bowl opening. More fluid or driving can minimize or prevent this problem. I have 5.1 gal cassette toilet, with spare gives me 10 gal total but I used the spare one rarely.

 

[phantomjock]

Another option: (using google-foo...)

Camping toilet bags, like WAG bags, are designed for convenient and sanitary disposal of human waste in areas where traditional toilet facilities are unavailable. These bags contain a gelling agent that solidifies waste and renders it inert. After use, the bags are sealed and can be disposed of in regular trash cans, as they are typically approved for landfill disposal.​

Although, a few year back, the marine authorities (In Annapolis, MD -- Port Captain, etc) were getting calls on boaters using these and filling local marine dumpsters. Never followed up on the outcome. But if legal and "authorized" it represents another option. Storage until reaching a waste site would be similar to a cassette I'd think. Maybe even more user friendly? We have used these on occasion.
Easy-pee-zee.

Cheers - Jim

 

[mumkin]

I suspect that the advice about 3 gallons is based on the big RVs with 30+ gallon black tanks. Most of mine had the usual little 9-10 gallon black. I always used Happy Camper in both the black and gray tank. After dumping, I would fill the toilet bowl and the kitchen sink with water... add a scoop of Happy Camper and stir until it was dissolved. Then let it into the tanks. The great thing about the sewer system of the RT Zion models is that it has a macerator (which I prefer 100%) but if it fails, you have the gravity dump to back it up. Because the Promaster models have no outside storage for hoses, the macerator is great. Many of carried the cheapest gravity hose - just in case - and if we had to use it, we could just toss it in the trash. lol

My final rig was basic and had no plumbing. I used a Stansport camping toilet (kept in a designed for it cabinet), biodegradable plastic bags, and cedar scented kitty litter. Works great for a fraction of the 'wag-bag' system price and actually works better. Seems to me to be equivalent to putting a used diaper into the trash. One does need to be considerate in disposing of either, of course. In the situation where you don't have ready access to get rid of them quickly, they also make special plastic bags for disposing of cat litter that control the smell extremely well.

 

[GroupB]

I have always started out with the waste tanks mostly empty because that's what made sense to me considering the the sizes of tanks in a class b,

I use TankTechsRx treatment. The only fact I can give about its performance is that the longer the time before dumping, the less the oder of the effluent. I use a capful in each tank after dumping.

 

[GeorgeRad]

I suspect that the advice about 3 gallons is based on the big RVs with 30+ gallon black tanks. Most of mine had the usual little 9-10 gallon black. I always used Happy Camper in both the black and gray tank. After dumping, I would fill the toilet bowl and the kitchen sink with water... add a scoop of Happy Camper and stir until it was dissolved. Then let it into the tanks. The great thing about the sewer system of the RT Zion models is that it has a macerator (which I prefer 100%) but if it fails, you have the gravity dump to back it up. Because the Promaster models have no outside storage for hoses, the macerator is great. Many of carried the cheapest gravity hose - just in case - and if we had to use it, we could just toss it in the trash. lol

My final rig was basic and had no plumbing. I used a Stansport camping toilet (kept in a designed for it cabinet), biodegradable plastic bags, and cedar scented kitty litter. Works great for a fraction of the 'wag-bag' system price and actually works better. Seems to me to be equivalent to putting a used diaper into the trash. One does need to be considerate in disposing of either, of course. In the situation where you don't have ready access to get rid of them quickly, they also make special plastic bags for disposing of cat litter that control the smell extremely well.

I look at Happy Camper chemistry on their MSDS, it states “monohydrate” and a phone number. They could say for simplicity chemistry – white powder which had a contact with water. They likely hiding specs to not show similarity to other oxidizing products on the market.

 

[mumkin]

When this stuff first came out, the guy who created it had a booth at an FMCA rally in 2005. I tried it and it worked... no smell from either tank. I hated the added smell of the products I had previously used... not to mention our tanks are too small for those pod things. Plus a container lasts a long time for the price. What's not to like...

 

[youngnretired]

Interesting thread, and this has me planning some changes. We're new to class B camping (used to be a popup and tent) and the previous owner used the Aqua Max dry packs that came with the camper and these are supposed to be good for 40 gallons of black water. I've always tossed one in the toilet and added maybe a quart of water, but I'm thinking this wasn't wise. Just like others, I didn't want to use a gallon or more like the instructions say because that's 10% of my tank size. Just last week I tried dissolving one of these in a bucket, and after 30 minutes or so it was pretty much jelly. Now after reading this post, I think I'll transition to liquid or something for smaller tanks as that "mountain of solids" just under the tank has me thinking. So far we've only been on short trips and probably only used 3-4 gallons of capacity of the tank. But, I've always put soap in the tank for every trip we've done so far. We also use any toilet facility when they're available and especially during daylight hours.

Booster, your use the macerator pump until it pulses has me thinking too. I really don't know how long to run the pump before stopping before doing damage, but I've wanted to drain it as much as I can. But the concept that if you're using it in a short period, you can leave some left over in the tank.

 

[booster]

Booster, your use the macerator pump until it pulses has me thinking too. I really don't know how long to run the pump before stopping before doing damage, but I've wanted to drain it as much as I can. But the concept that if you're using it in a short period, you can leave some left over in the tank.

Roadtrek macerators on the Chevies are kind of odd cases in a couple of ways.

The main one is the they are actually installed upside down from what normal pumps would be, or they would be if put bolt flange down. By having it upside down the inlet to the first (chopper) section is on the high point of the inlet fitting so the pump can never completely pump out the feeding pipe, probably leaving and inch or a bit more in it. The water left in there can also make them more prone to get you antifreeze to keep them from freezing as it doesn't get to that area well.

The other bad part is that by being upside down the drain hole between the motor and the pumping sections is pointing up instead of down. That hole is intended to let any pump inlet shaft seal leakage to get out before it gets deep enough to destroy the motor.

Sureflo does sell a pump that has an inverted pumping section that solves the whole issue except you have to replumb the exit flexible tubing as the exit fitting is on the top rear side instead of the bottom front of the pump. There are a couple of discussions on the forum from when we discovered these issues in our van, years ago.

Basically, when the pump starts to pulse it is because it is sucking air in the inlet of the pump and that inlet is usually a bit lower than the tank so the only water is in piping to the macerator.

When we get to the end of a trip and maybe once or twice during, we run water through a couple of times to help clear left over crud out. Our pump is the reverse version so pumps out almost all of the water in the pipe.

 

[thecove-ClassB]

Interesting thread, and this has me planning some changes. We're new to class B camping (used to be a popup and tent) and the previous owner used the Aqua Max dry packs that came with the camper and these are supposed to be good for 40 gallons of black water. I've always tossed one in the toilet and added maybe a quart of water, but I'm thinking this wasn't wise. Just like others, I didn't want to use a gallon or more like the instructions say because that's 10% of my tank size. Just last week I tried dissolving one of these in a bucket, and after 30 minutes or so it was pretty much jelly. Now after reading this post, I think I'll transition to liquid or something for smaller tanks as that "mountain of solids" just under the tank has me thinking. So far we've only been on short trips and probably only used 3-4 gallons of capacity of the tank. But, I've always put soap in the tank for every trip we've done so far. We also use any toilet facility when they're available and especially during daylight hours.

Booster, your use the macerator pump until it pulses has me thinking too. I really don't know how long to run the pump before stopping before doing damage, but I've wanted to drain it as much as I can. But the concept that if you're using it in a short period, you can leave some left over in the tank.

Agreed....thanks to all. This has been a super helpful thread. Can't wait to get into the new Zion and hit the road again. I must say I'm surprised though......Class B's have become so popular, I'm shocked that there is not a specialized "product" for the smaller black water tanks. Pods would be nice but really appreciate the science experiment you did, they could cause a real problem. I'm planning on going the happy camper route with a gallon fill.

 

[booster]

Agreed....thanks to all. This has been a super helpful thread. Can't wait to get into the new Zion and hit the road again. I must say I'm surprised though......Class B's have become so popular, I'm shocked that there is not a specialized "product" for the smaller black water tanks. Pods would be nice but really appreciate the science experiment you did, they could cause a real problem. I'm planning on going the happy camper route with a gallon fill.

The liquids in bigger bottles often have a small chamber that you use to measure whatever you want and pours in without more coming from main part of bottle. No need for special product that way. Black tanks go from something like 6 gallons to over 100 gallons so would take a lot of special products.

 

[youngnretired]

From the previous owner documents that I have, a sureflo pump was installed in 2019, model 3200-001. The current hose exit point is towards the front of the vehicle, which I assume nobody modified it from original as the place that did the service was an RT certified GM dealer. So, likely our pump is upside down.

I believe I found booster's posting on the pump replacement. It's below for others to follow as necessary.

Macerator pump revisions

I also found a listing in one of the threads I read for a Sureflo 3200-000 pump. However, if I go to sureflo's website, I find the -001 pump and a few others that are listed as 180 degree port. Maybe one of these would bolt in to a RT without modification? I can't seem to get actual pictures of specific part number pumps off Sureflo's website though.

https://www.pentair.com/en-us/produ...tor-pump.html&indexName=prod_pentair_products

 

[booster]

This looks to be the reverse port version

Shurflo by Pentair MACERATOR Pump w/180 Port - 12 VDC, 13 GPM

MACERATOR Pump w/180° Port - 12 VDC, 13 GPMSHURFLO's MACERATOR is designed to accommodate the need for a reliable, high performance waste evacuation pump. This pump incorporates a high quality motor with a new seamless shell design that is thermally protected. The unique features of the...

www.boemarine.com

 

[youngnretired]

But this would be a direct replacement for your modified version, not a RT factory installation, correct?

 

[booster]

But this would be a direct replacement for your modified version, not a RT factory installation, correct?

 

[booster]

Yes I built ours around using the right pump so it would drop in.

In a Roadtrek, as I mentioned earlier, it would bolt up the same but the outlet would be pointed to the rear at the top of the housing instead of forward at at the lower side of the housing like the stock pump is.

The discharge hose is a flex line so not a huge deal to move it to the other side, but you might need to trim a cover and find places to support the hose as it goes over to side pop where it exits.

 

[youngnretired]

Ok, so there would still need to be modifications made with the discharge hose, shroud around the pump and possibly the valving to use this pump. I was hoping that there would be one that didn't require any modifications.

Or just disassemble the new factory style pump, drill a hole in the pump housing on the opposite side, reinstall, silicone the factory hole closed and install. Pick your poison which would be easier to do.