Centralized control systems benefits vs detriments?

[booster]

I know this has come up various times in the past and been very interesting to me.

It seems like we get more and more questions about the newer class b vans that have control system issues, often with pretty much all the control of stuff dead. It really makes it tough for the users or anyone trying to help to know what is going on as it kind of like modern cars that can't be diagnosed without a specific electronic diagnostic tool or computer. The ease and convenience certainly would nice, and it certainly makes it easier on the dealers selling the vans to be able to claim state of the art systems, but in the class B world many keep their vans many years over hundreds of thousands of miles, and failures from age or obsolescence can get to be large issues, I think. Replacing a full touch panel and the electronics that make it work from the devices can get to be very expensive at year 10 compared to a switch or device here and there over the years.

I think the cost/benefit for the manufacturers is probably much more tilted to the manufacturers than the consumers as touch screen tech has gotten much less expensive over the years, but repairing them hasn't from what I have seen.

Personally, we have an 18 year old Roadtrek 190P Chevy that started out pretty much old school with a Tripplite, no solar, gas frig, water heat, cooktop and a horrible Onan. It was usable from the start but couldn't keep up with more power use and such as time went on. All of it is gone now except the water heater and cooktop and we rarely use either. What hasn't changed, by design, is that they are all standalone systems. 3 power systems, inverter/charger, solar, engine charging, no generator needed. If any fail the rest work. Same with the macerator that has gravity dump backup. We have similar capabilities of battery capacity and convenience to newer vans, but I hope with less risk of ruined trips. Yep, I (we) are luddites on this but I don't hate new tech as long as it is reliable and actually helps more than hurts. Whiz bang stuff for "show" or whatever aren't our thing, capability and reliability are. Perhaps the future is to be able to have a "kit" that contained a spare controller that is pre setup and ready to go for critical areas, but maybe not. Many of us carry a spare fanbelt for instance.

We are old at 76 and 82, and understand newer generations are more educated and I think tolerant of newer tech and it's hassles, but what do those say that actually have lived with the touch screen centralized systems over time and many miles and trips. Worth it, not worth it, would you do it again if had a choice. Same question of those the have older tech vans. There are no right or wrong answers to these questions but the answers would be interesting.

Somehow the idea of having to fly a tech in to fix your RV just doesn't sit right to me, and of course neither does having it towed 500 miles to a qualified shop.

 

[TX-Trek]

IMO planned obscelence has accelerated dramatically over the last 5-8 years, along with needless system complexity and drop in dependability. We're keeping our 2010 RT as long as possible, don't care about new and shiny.
I've spent a lot of time digging into modern systems, have several scanners and related scope equipment. But its ridiculous that even minor components down to door lock modules, parking brake controllers etc have to be programmed to the vehicle. Goodbye plug and play.
More and more complexity into high and low CANBUS, numerous LINBUS systems etc. It's insane to me. Screens are pretty much unrepairable unless you're Mr Carlson or Mend-It-Mark.
I do carry spares/tools, but I can't carry a second vehicle worth, so I try to keep proactive maintenance up. I do have a spare junkyard ECU that's been reprogrammed. I keep a subscription at Mitchell DIY to access 2010 express 3500 factory shop info including wiring diagrams. Its come in handy on a few trips. Yes i know it needs internet access, but I wouldn't forego having it. Its obviously for the vehicle systems, but if there's an issue I want to ensure I can address it and at least understand what's happening.
I also have gravity dump backup to the macerator, and I can swap out the ac with another window unit style if needed. If electrical fails then the trip's over, can't cover everything.
Recently had a $5k transmission rebuild a few thousand miles from home. I'd rather do that than get a mortgage for another class B.
Just my view, there's many that keep for a while, trade off, etc. and thats fine, just not what I do. Our class B is 2010, our others vehicles are 2011, I'm good with that. Don't get me started on parts availability and quality these days.....

 

[GeorgeRad]

Going through the process of converting a passenger Sprinter van to a camper van gave me a lot of new experience I didn’t have from my previous jobs. The grandmother test of simplicity was well imbedded in my choices and decisions. My main control panel has enough labeled CBs with well documented electrical schematic allowing for ease troubleshooting if necessary. It is easy to remember which switch turns a specific light. I stayed away from programmable devices if I could. I can read an instruction but months later I need to find the manual and refresh my memory. I dislike with passion fixing while camping, troubleshooting is a job, camping supposed to be just a pleasure.

So, turning a light fixture on and off with the help of microprocessor is like killing a fly with a Tomahawk. Next step will be a PC via AI asking you which light, for how long, at what brightness, at what color……leading you to blast "shut up AI"!

I noticed that van conversion world tends to accept bleeding edge of upcoming technology like LCD screens for control or Lithium batteries almost to the point that if you can’t brag about your Li, you are nobody. I worked in technologies all my life, and enjoy camping simplicity. Is AI the next step in the bleeding edge of the world of camper vans?

 

[jjrbus]

A few decades ago I built a new house and put in the latest golly gosh gee wiz high tech hot water heating system. Right out of warranty the control board failed. The savings on natural gas was quickly wiped out for years by the repair bill. A couple years later the board goes out again! So I know how to diagnose and replace a hot water boiler control board.

For me I do not want anything that requires special techs or diagnostic tools in anything let alone my RV. If I were given a Mercedes based RV I would sell it.

I miss my Toyota based RV!!!

 

[Doneworking]

This is one reason why we keep the Roadtrek we bought twenty years ago. B World is supposed to be less is more anyway and less high tech is more to me. Some folks obviously love the high tech systems and enjoy learning about them. Our first RV was a worn out Class C and I remember I could light the hot water tank with an exotic, single use "tool" called a match. It never failed.

 

[booster]

We all said a lot of the same stuff about when the cars started to go computerized control of engines and transmissions and a lot it of proved out to be true as people got stranded out in country and nobody knew how to fix them. It was especially true when the OEMs held software back so nobody else could even make the tools for independents to be able fix the OEM vehicles. That changed, thankfully, when the "right to repair" laws came into effect and there are lots of independent garages.

I am somewhat skeptical if the same with happen with RV centralized systems because the market is tiny compared to cars and truck controls and the RV dealers are probably not going to want or be able to afford all the diagnostic equipment for the various brands. Add to that the stock to stock parts for even for the manufacturer to have them, program them, and ship them in a day or two gets really expensive. Back 20 years ago we ran into this all the time after the equipment manufacturers quit stocking finished products that could ship same day. They stocked the parts to build them and claimed they could ship and program in 3 days (turned out to be not true most of the time). If a company has a machine down that has charged rate of near $10K an hour and runs 24/7, the get real testy about why it can't be fixed quickly.

It may be that somebody will come up with some easy to use software for computer operating systems like windows or whatever, so the control companies don't have to develop their own and the repair places have across the board capability to fix the systems. Of course, based on what we see and hear about the quality of the workers in RV shops, they might not be willing to pay the cost of hiring a specialist in systems troubleshooting.

Personally, I have not seen the old, middle, or young homeowners going all in on home automation unless it is for show or they are tech geeks, but it is a small sample size. Lots seem to quit on it once they have to try to get it all working and paired up after a glitch, and now we hear about how vulnerable the systems are to crimes like data breaches or security system disables because of the less the great security on the devices tied to the central system and internet.

I tried to do a search for a list of companies that do RV integration control systems and there were so many I kind gave up. Also the OEMs like Winnebago and Thor are selling the own systems, which may or may not be third party stuff.

Of course, I probably will never understand having you phone with you 24/7 do you can turn on a light that is mere feet away in a Class B van. When we go camping I usually have my phone off for the whole time. DW has hers on the whole time because she wants her adult kids/grandkids/family to be able to get a hold of her. No controls on either of them except for lithium battery app to check cell balance if I want but rarely do anymore and Victron battery monitor app to change settings if I am to lazy to use the push button menus on the unit.

 

[ks@yvr]

Just spent the last half hour explaining to a friend experiencing car problems today the quick and easy fix, since their favourite mechanic is off for a holiday until new years. There car started running rough while we are experiencing days of torrential rains and they are worried their car might stop running.

Their issue is wet ignition wires and/or a coil pack. I have seen it many times over the last 50 years starting from my own cheap car in university onwards. I suggested they just pull out the hair dryer and dry the wires but that likely they will need to replace a coil pack or the wire set on their 20 year old car. No computer required The hair dryer did solve their issue! (for now - they need to probably replace a coilpack or wire set)

I am completely up on technology but old school is way easier to live with, not worrying about canbus or multiple systems not talking nicely to each other.

 

[PreciousRoy]

Seems that I'm preaching to the choir here, but I am 100% in favor of separate controls. Sure, the look is a little cluttered with separate switch panels, HVAC thermostats, battery monitors, etc., but as soon as you need to repair or want to upgrade a system, you'll want it to be decoupled from all the rest.

My experience with the Firefly integration system in my 2021 RoadTrek Chase was awful. It amounted only to an additional layer of potential problems on top of each system (which was in itself a layer of potential problems). I'm much happier with my Entegra which in place of the seemingly-standard touchscreen tablet has a nice old-school acrylic panel with separate switches and displays for each system.

Not that I'm a complete luddite - central display and control has a place. I have 30+ years experience in building automation and controls, but buildings generally don't rattle down the highway and end up in a different place every few days. I want my RV to be as simple and reliable as possible.