Coil spring compressor.

[booster]

Hopefully, you have found the pearl in the oyster of shops. A full featured and talented shop has quite a few ways to address the issue, from frame pulls, to cutting off the upper arm mounts and moving them to whatever. It will be interesting to see how it goes.

 

[jjrbus]

Went to Mr Front End in Punta Gorda FL. They spent a couple hours on the RT several techs worked and consulted on it. $275! They did a local test drive with me and answered any questions I had. They claim the alignment is as good as it is going to get. I told them looking at the print out it is going to wander on the highway. Which it does. The alignment tech told me he works on lots of these and similar trucks and this is as good as it is going to get.

I inquired about modifying the control arm brackets and they do not do modifications. The head guy told me at this point my money would be best spent on a Safe-T-Steer.

The other shop will modify the brackets but he does not have insurance and how do I know if he actually knows what he is doing?

Pretty disappointed with the whole thing now.

 

[booster]

Went to Mr Front End in Punta Gorda FL. They spent a couple hours on the RT several techs worked and consulted on it. $275! They did a local test drive with me and answered any questions I had. They claim the alignment is as good as it is going to get. I told them looking at the print out it is going to wander on the highway. Which it does. The alignment tech told me he works on lots of these and similar trucks and this is as good as it is going to get.

I inquired about modifying the control arm brackets and they do not do modifications. The head guy told me at this point my money would be best spent on a Safe-T-Steer.

The other shop will modify the brackets but he does not have insurance and how do I know if he actually knows what he is doing?

Pretty disappointed with the whole thing now.

These guys did a pretty good job of splitting up the little range they had to work with.

That said, you are very short of camber and that makes vehicles tough to drive.

There generally, at least that I have heard of, two common ways to address your issue.

The first is to cut off the upper control arm brackets and and weld them back on to move the upper arm and ball joint to the rear and probably outboard also to get more camber adjustment.

The second way is to pull the frame on a frame rack and these days nobody seems to what to do that unless they are dealing with a frame only, body off, situation.

You may want to try to find an offroad truck building place around you. The modify truck suspensions all the time for offroad and rock crawling, I would guess.

 

[jjrbus]

Thanks for the response. I have been having terrible time finding someone to do a good alignment. Finding someone I would trust to modify the brackets seems like Mission Impossible!

Any thoughts on the Safe-T-Steer?

How is the shoulder coming along?

 

[booster]

Thanks for the response. I have been having terrible time finding someone to do a good alignment. Finding someone I would trust to modify the brackets seems like Mission Impossible!

Any thoughts on the Safe-T-Steer?

How is the shoulder coming along?

I here you on that one, for sure. I would also have trouble trusting someone with things like frame mods.

It is also why I do my own alignments now. It cost some money up front but removed the hassle and allowed me to get decent results. Of course all the bad alignments cost half as much as the equipment to do my own, as there were at least 4-5 of them that were horrible.

I am not fan of Safe-T-Steer as it just seems wrong to pull that had all the time on balljoints and also increase the amount of force the power steering gear and linkage have to transmit to hit and arbitrary center point that will vary depending on road crown, wind, etc. If the needed steering angle to hold line is different that the STS is set at you have to hold against the spring pressure so at least some degree. Others have though the STS is a great thing, so again one of the personal choice things, I think.

The shoulder is doing well and one week to hopefully final, all clear, appointment. Also getting MRI on the other shoulder to see if can get fixed in November before it fails as badly as the right on had.

 

[jjrbus]

Mulling the Safety T Steer over, all the online endorsements and no one mentions their alignment specs, only that they had an alignment before adding it. Like me until recently they likely have no idea what the specs mean.

I am not thrilled about the Safe T Steer but at the moment it is the only option I have.

I have a torn rotator cuff, not bad enough to require surgery so I try to take it easy as I have had enough surgery for one life time. Now they want to take my gall bladder out.

 

[wmgeorge]

I here you on that one, for sure. I would also have trouble trusting someone with things like frame mods.

It is also why I do my own alignments now. It cost some money up front but removed the hassle and allowed me to get decent results. Of course all the bad alignments cost half as much as the equipment to do my own, as there were at least 4-5 of them that were horrible.

I am not fan of Safe-T-Steer as it just seems wrong to pull that had all the time on balljoints and also increase the amount of force the power steering gear and linkage have to transmit to hit and arbitrary center point that will vary depending on road crown, wind, etc. If the needed steering angle to hold line is different that the STS is set at you have to hold against the spring pressure so at least some degree. Others have though the STS is a great thing, so again one of the personal choice things, I think.

The shoulder is doing well and one week to hopefully final, all clear, appointment. Also getting MRI on the other shoulder to see if can get fixed in November before it fails as badly as the right on had.

You might want to see how this one holds up. Oldest sons father in law had shoulder replaced Then they told him He had a 15 lb weight limit!

 

[booster]

You might want to see how this one holds up. Oldest sons father in law had shoulder replaced Then they told him He had a 15 lb weight limit!

Total replacements seem to have more weight limits and I think it is base on the bone density to hold the parts in place. They X-rayed first to check the bones and the joint itself, and I had good bone density and the joint itself wasn't damaged. I got a tendon in the rotator cuff moved and reattached and a 4 year old bicep complete rupture re attached to the upper arm bone. This is similar to what they do for younger heavy users as it more durable and stronger than the total or reverse total replacements. Before the surgery I couldn't lift even 5# on that arm so 15 would have been worth it. It was done at the Mayo clinic flagship location in Rochester MN, which is the 2nd highest rated ortho clinic in the USA, so I do trust their judgement.

 

[wmgeorge]

Total replacements seem to have more weight limits and I think it is base on the bone density to hold the parts in place. They X-rayed first to check the bones and the joint itself, and I had good bone density and the joint itself wasn't damaged. I got a tendon in the rotator cuff moved and reattached and a 4 year old bicep complete rupture re attached to the upper arm bone. This is similar to what they do for younger heavy users as it more durable and stronger than the total or reverse total replacements. Before the surgery I couldn't lift even 5# on that arm so 15 would have been worth it. It was done at the Mayo clinic flagship location in Rochester MN, which is the 2nd highest rated ortho clinic in the USA, so I do trust their judgement.

We have been to that Mayo Clinic and they are great. Love that underground walkway system.
My guess is the father in law did zero research on his replacement. Both he and wife tend to get surgery all the time!

 

[jjrbus]

Been doing a little web surfing and found there is the Safe-T-Plus and a Roadmaster stabilizer. Both have good reviews but the Roadmaster is cheaper. Looks like STP dropped their price and Roadmaster charges big $$$$ for the mounting bracket so not a big difference anymore. STP has an internal spring to protect it and Roadmaster has an external spring so it can weather.

Chated with the STP rep today and he seems to think their stabilizer will make a noticeable improvement.

I am surprised at the lack of interest in this as I cannot be the only one with this problem.

I have an 02 Express RT 200 and the parts are.

Roadmaster bracet

Roadmaster RBK15 $120​

Roadmaster cylinder RSSC $315

31-140 (Silver) Safe T Plus Steering Control $415​

Bracket

C-323K12 Mounting Hardware Kit $62​

 

[wmgeorge]

I have a 2008 Chevy 3500 RT 210P and no issues.

 

[jjrbus]

I have a 2008 Chevy 3500 RT 210P and no issues.

There was a model change in 2003. My model was from 96 to 02. Hopefully they fixed the issue during the model change.

 

[booster]

There was a model change in 2003. My model was from 96 to 02. Hopefully they fixed the issue during the model change.

The redesign in 2003 sorta kinda fixed the issues of the earlier vans regarding alignment settings, along with other modernizing of the still old school design front suspension.

The big change pivoted around the introduction of the LS series GM engines to the vans, getting rid of the Gen 1 small block that had been around since the 1950s, I think. The 454/8.1 big block engines were also dumped along with the diesel option.

Getting rid of the big blocks and diesels allowed GM to make the engine compartment and doghouse smaller in the new generation vans. This gave a smaller doghouse and bigger footwells in the cabin and more room for suspension at the front wheels.

The new vans have longer control arms that are cast instead of fabricated from sheet steel. The allow for a taller spring and more length to the wheels so get more travel available with less arc path. They also moved to the sealed bearing hubs at this time and away from the double tapered roller bearing adjustable and greaseable older style.

The new upper control arms have larger bushings in the frame end, which turns out to be a big deal if you need to get more positive camber or caster because you can get offset bushings that give and extra 1 degree of camber. I think the adjusting cams also have more travel but am not certain on that.

The also seemed to go on a weight reduction quest as some of the frame parts are thinner and probably made of stronger materials to reduce weight, including "lightening" holes and cutouts.

Bummer is that in 2003 they removed the front crossmember centerpoint from the approved places to use a floor jack or lift. Probably thinner and has a huge cutout right in the center of it. Although not approved points, I do jack on the ends of the crossmember where it meets the other frame parts as it very strong there, it appears. I use a floor jack on each end and lift both sides together. It goes up and down with much better stability than jacking in the center ever did and it allows you to lift a side higher than the other before putting in the jack stands.

I think most of the the other changes were cosmetic, but it is possible the hydroboost showed up in 2003 also.

 

[jjrbus]

The redesign in 2003 sorta kinda fixed the issues of the earlier vans regarding alignment settings, along with other modernizing of the still old school design front suspension.

The big change pivoted around the introduction of the LS series GM engines to the vans, getting rid of the Gen 1 small block that had been around since the 1950s, I think. The 454/8.1 big block engines were also dumped along with the diesel option.

Getting rid of the big blocks and diesels allowed GM to make the engine compartment and doghouse smaller in the new generation vans. This gave a smaller doghouse and bigger footwells in the cabin and more room for suspension at the front wheels.

The new vans have longer control arms that are cast instead of fabricated from sheet steel. The allow for a taller spring and more length to the wheels so get more travel available with less arc path. They also moved to the sealed bearing hubs at this time and away from the double tapered roller bearing adjustable and greaseable older style.

The new upper control arms have larger bushings in the frame end, which turns out to be a big deal if you need to get more positive camber or caster because you can get offset bushings that give and extra 1 degree of camber. I think the adjusting cams also have more travel but am not certain on that.

The also seemed to go on a weight reduction quest as some of the frame parts are thinner and probably made of stronger materials to reduce weight, including "lightening" holes and cutouts.

Bummer is that in 2003 they removed the front crossmember centerpoint from the approved places to use a floor jack or lift. Probably thinner and has a huge cutout right in the center of it. Although not approved points, I do jack on the ends of the crossmember where it meets the other frame parts as it very strong there, it appears. I use a floor jack on each end and lift both sides together. It goes up and down with much better stability than jacking in the center ever did and it allows you to lift a side higher than the other before putting in the jack stands.

I think most of the the other changes were cosmetic, but it is possible the hydroboost showed up in 2003 also.

I find it interesting that the jacking points changed in 03, I have never heard it mentioned on any of the sites I frequent!

I am still web surfing for Chevy express alignment issues. Many posts on maxed out adjustments but no reason why and more importantly no way to fix pre 03 issues.

 

[booster]

I find it interesting that the jacking points changed in 03, I have never heard it mentioned on any of the sites I frequent!

I am still web surfing for Chevy express alignment issues. Many posts on maxed out adjustments but no reason why and more importantly no way to fix pre 03 issues.

I find it interesting that the jacking points changed in 03, I have never heard it mentioned on any of the sites I frequent!

I am still web surfing for Chevy express alignment issues. Many posts on maxed out adjustments but no reason why and more importantly no way to fix pre 03 issues.

I am a bit surprised you didn't see it on here as it has been discussed several times in various threads. I think I had even posted the page of the factory service manual that showed the approved jack points.

 

[booster]

Here is the factory service manual page with the lift points shown for floor jacks and hoists. I found this in one of Marcopolo's posts from 2006 and I am sure it is other places also that I didn't get to.

 

[jjrbus]

Thank you, I will need to post that on the FB site.

 

[jjrbus]

Been reading on the Safe T Steer and searching the web on alignment problems. I find so little on pre 03 Express alignment problems. Went back to Mr Front End and discussed it with them. Seems the only option I have is the Safe T Steer. Not happy about this but ordered The 31-140 from Amazon for $386.35. Amazon did not have the mounting bracket available so ordered from Camping World C-323K12 for $72.92. Both prices include tax and delivery. Checked Market Place before I ordered.

 

[jjrbus]

The Safe=T-Plus is installed, no major issues. All the videos I watched had the large end of the cylinder to the outside and instructions said mine goes towards the middle. Stripped a sway bar bracket hole, easy fix. The drag link bracket end has 2 U bolts to be torqued to 20 Ftlb. Should be easy right, a deep well socket will not go on 1 nut! None of the 20 or so videos I watched showed this. I could not put a crow's foot on it at a 90 degree angle so went in straight. I calculated I needed 17 ftlb to get 20 at the bolt.

Centering did not go like the videos either. There is not a level road anywhere near me! I had to drive up and down several roads and kind of balance out where straight ahead position of the wheel is. I adjusted it and now I am fairly confident I have it correct.

Took a short jaunt on the interstate, no wind, and it tracks better than it has in the last 3 years. Will need to put some miles on for better assessment.