Diesel or Gas

[DadsGypsy]

Hi everyone. I don't post often, but I'm looking for a used van motorhome. I've owned nothing with a diesel engine, which means I know very little about them. That's my first concern. Second, I'm aware of how much longer the engines can last. I'm not sure the chassis can last as long. So is it really an advantage?

My biggest concern is that most of them seem to be Mercedes engines. In the west, where I travel most, it can be hard to find service and a long way to civilization in the event of a breakdown. A friend has a van for her business. It's always in for service and costs a bundle every time.

I'm worried about breaking down in the extreme heat or cold with animals with me and being stuck for hours or having huge tow bills because it can't be taken to the nearest service available. Should I consider diesel or stick with gasoline?

I should probably add that I usually travel alone, and I'm not able to do mechanical work anymore. I spent many years doing most of it on my cars when I was younger.

Thanks for your help.

 

[booster]

Personally, I wouldn't want a diesel, especially since all the emissions rules went in with DEF and DPF required. The mileage advantage is what it used to be either as the diesels have gotten worse with the rules and gas engines have gotten better.

In over the road truck engines, locomotives, power generation you do get diesels that last a long time but light truck engines often don't do anything close to those other engines. Good light truck diesels that I see used (I watch Craigslist which is full of old stuff) last 2 to 300K miles and so do good gas engines these days from what I have seen. Diesels are more expensive to maintain in most cases also.

An exception to the above may be some of the direct injection gas engines that are out now, especially in colder climates. I have noticed a large change in the mileage for engine replacements having been done is some of them. The one I am watching the most is the GM LS engines that are in most of their light trucks and V8 cars. The Chevrolet pickups and Suburbans used to show up on Craiglist with 250K+/- miles on them all the time with original engines in them. Now I am seeing a lot of them with replaced engines before 150K starting in 2015 when the GDI engines showed up in some of them. Best information I have found is stating the cause of the earlier failures is from cylinder wall/piston washing with gas that wears them out and also dilutes the oil.

 

[youngnretired]

We bought a 2008 Roadtrek popular 2.5 months ago. I first started out with a Mercedes at the top of the list, because of fuel mileage and they are SO huge inside. We looked at one, and the owner explained about some Mercedes having emissions issues, so I started reading forums to learn more.

We went to Alaska last fall, and if anyone hasn't driven the Alcan highway, it's extremely desolate. Mercedes quickly moved off our list because the thought came to mind for servicing it. I didn't want to get a Mercedes, and be on an Alaska trip or in the middle of nowhere, have an issue, drive some 600 miles (if it would drive) and spend two weeks waiting for our home to get fixed. On the modern Mercedes Sprinters, when there's an issue with the emissions systems and the light on the dash comes on, you have 10 starts to get it to a service center. After those 10 starts, the engine goes into limp mode, which I believe is 5 MPH.

Maybe I'm more on the negative side, but I try to fix what I can when things break. We chose Chevy because it's is the easiest and most serviceable brand in the US. The modern Ford's and Ram are close behind, but the Chevy tops the list for serviceability.

From what I read on forums on the Mercedes, to ward off issues with the emissions systems, you need to use Mercedes specific oil, which isn't as cheap as regular off the shelf oil. I guess if you use the off the shelf oil, you can have more soot in the exhaust which leads to buildup in the emissions system. So with gas and diesel (and specifically Mercedes), you're trading fuel mileage of the diesel for increased fuel costs with the gas. But, you're also trading the expenses of maintaining the diesel with more expensive oil changes and more frequent maintenance on the diesel specific components, especially the fuel filter. Also, a Chevy 6.0L takes 6 quarts of oil, where the Mercedes 3.0L takes 13 quarts of oil. Not only is the Mercedes oil more money, but you need 2x the quantity of it for an oil change. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the modern Ford engine offerings in RV's, but from what I've heard on the Ram Promasters, those seem to also have decent power and economy in an RV.

So you'll need to consider where most of your trips in the RV will take you and if/when your RV needs service, how easy that is going to be. Is your lifestyle such that you can get the RV to a service center and spend a week or more waiting for it to be serviced?

 

[mumkin]

DadsGypsy... all the reasons you mentioned are why I avoided Sprinters... even though they are the best looking of the current vans. I loved my Chevy rigs, but their interiors are limited. Promasters seemed to me the best choice for the largest interior space... and I loved the front wheel drive. There are pros and cons and weak spots for all of them, but I think the only reason to go with a Sprinter might be for towing power.

 

[DadsGypsy]

Thanks everyone. Good advice. Mercedes is off the list for all the reasons listed above.

One more thing. I've been avoiding Chevy because I don't like the steering, and the RT I had developed horrible front-end problems that no amount of repairs fixed. Then, my research indicated that's a thing with older Chevys. Sounds like some of you have a lot of experience with them.

Some older RTs on the Dodge frame (1998-2003?) have rust issues and also front-end problems (sounds like from the rust).

I always had a steering stabilizer put on my vans because I have concerns about flipping in the event of a front tire problem.

Am I worrying too much about the Chevy?

 

[booster]

How old of a Chevy did you have handling issues with? The current generation has probably the best of the rear wheel, old school vans (Chevy, Ford, and Dodge). We have a current generation Chevy, 2007 vintage, and it was decent stock. I am very picky, though and have improved the handling quite a bit more as I like quick response. The problem with a lot of the old stuff is that no techs know how to even set the alignment specs these days, and using the computerized alignment equipment make it even worse. Very few users have reported and posted decent alignments on this forum. I finally gave up and do my own.

 

[DadsGypsy]

It was a 2003, 200 Popular. I loved it and wanted to make it work. Nothing did the trick. I blamed some of it on the bubble butt on that model, but I doubt it contributed that much—am I wrong? I had it serviced by the Chevy dealer because I thought they would know how to do it right.

What you said makes me wonder why RoadTrek stayed with Chevy for so many years. I've heard that about Chevy vans and trucks, not just RTs.

 

[booster]

Thanks for the information. You were on the cutaway chassis and a previous generation of the Chevy van so probably doesn't apply well to current models. The new models used longer control arms, springs with more range and a bunch of other things, plus are full steel bodied vans that get modified.

Even the pre 2003 vans can be made better, but not as much as the latter ones.

 

[DadsGypsy]

Thank you. Good to know all that. I appreciate it.

 

[DadsGypsy]

Thanks for the information. You were on the cutaway chassis and a previous generation of the Chevy van so probably doesn't apply well to current models. The new models used longer control arms, springs with more range and a bunch of other things, plus are full steel bodied vans that get modified.

Even the pre 2003 vans can be made better, but not as much as the latter ones.

When did the newer generation come out?

 

[booster]

2003

 

[youngnretired]

Early 2003s may be built on a 2002 chassis. If it has a 5.7L (350) engine in it, it's a 2002. 2003s up until 2019ish have a 6.0L engine. The front nose on the 2002 and 2003s is also different.

 

[mumkin]

My 2011 Libero was a Class C and it was a leftover 2008 3500 Chevy platform (from the recession - got a super great price on it). It handled great, but then it had duallies. My previous first rig was a 2004 on a Ford E350. It was such a gawdawful handling thing, that even the worst Chevy would seem great. lol My RT 170 was a 2015 Chevy and it was such a little thing, it handled great too. None of them handled anywhere near as well as my two Promasters. My last one was the sportscar of RVs - a short wheelbase 1500. But all of the Promasters are likely newer than you are looking for.

 

[DadsGypsy]

My 2011 Libero was a Class C and it was a leftover 2008 3500 Chevy platform (from the recession - got a super great price on it). It handled great, but then it had duallies. My previous first rig was a 2004 on a Ford E350. It was such a gawdawful handling thing, that even the worst Chevy would seem great. lol My RT 170 was a 2015 Chevy and it was such a little thing, it handled great too. None of them handled anywhere near as well as my two Promasters. My last one was the sportscar of RVs - a short wheelbase 1500. But all of the Promasters are likely newer than you are looking for.

Thank you for that info. I actually prefer duallies, but many of the vans don't have them. They aren't popular with many owners. For me, the extra weight and stability are great, especially in a taller vehicle. The Promaster info is very helpful. They may be a bit on the new side. Worth a look though. Thanks again.

 

[mumkin]

As far as I know, there haven't been any true Class B rigs with duallies. I know some people added them to the odd wide-body types from Roadtrek and Pleasureway. I'm probably wrong, but I don't think any converters added them. Booster can probably correct me if needed. Some of the extra long Sprinters may have come with them from Mercedes. ?

They are certainly more stable to drive, but also really expensive when you need new tires. lol

 

[DadsGypsy]

As far as I know, there haven't been any true Class B rigs with duallies. I know some people added them to the odd wide-body types from Roadtrek and Pleasureway. I'm probably wrong, but I don't think any converters added them. Booster can probably correct me if needed. Some of the extra long Sprinters may have come with them from Mercedes. ?

They are certainly more stable to drive, but also really expensive when you need new tires. lol

I hear you on the tire cost. I had them on a C. Might be some Transit vans with them, but I can't say that for sure. Thank you.

 

[booster]

As far as I know, there haven't been any true Class B rigs with duallies. I know some people added them to the odd wide-body types from Roadtrek and Pleasureway. I'm probably wrong, but I don't think any converters added them. Booster can probably correct me if needed. Some of the extra long Sprinters may have come with them from Mercedes. ?

They are certainly more stable to drive, but also really expensive when you need new tires. lol

You were correct in the past, but not anymore. The extended Spinters changed that first and now the Transits come with dual wheels also, but with singles on some models.

 

[jjrbus]

Along time ago in a land far away I sold Mercedes. They were magnificent machines! I would not take one for free now!

I bought a bus to covert and it was a diesel with a million mile Detroit 6V 71 and I was going to save a bundle on fuel!! Not too long after I bought it diesel became much more expensive than gas. Then finding someone to work on them is not easy unless you are willing to give them a blank check! How many honest, competent diesel mechanics have you met in your life?

I sat in Chagrin Falls Ohio for 3 days waiting for a mobile mechanic. I could have been towed to a dealer with a phone call in 45 minutes. No way would I go to a dealer! Turned out to be algae plugging the fuel line. Ever hear of algae in diesel fuel, me either!

 

[wmgeorge]

Turned out to be algae plugging the fuel line. Ever hear of algae in diesel fuel, me either!

Yes its a fact of life with Diesel or Fuel Oil. Especially stuff that sets for a while like in a storage tank. BTW you could not give me a diesel car or truck, I have had tractors in the past and a VW TDI and if you know the ropes with diesel its not an issue, but not on the road.

 

[Johnnyfry]

Thanks everyone. Good advice. Mercedes is off the list for all the reasons listed above.

One more thing. I've been avoiding Chevy because I don't like the steering, and the RT I had developed horrible front-end problems that no amount of repairs fixed. Then, my research indicated that's a thing with older Chevys. Sounds like some of you have a lot of experience with them.

Some older RTs on the Dodge frame (1998-2003?) have rust issues and also front-end problems (sounds like from the rust).

I always had a steering stabilizer put on my vans because I have concerns about flipping in the event of a front tire problem.

Am I worrying too much about the Chevy?

I have a 2008C210P RT with 214,000 miles and am very happy with it. I has never needed major service and has never left me in a lerch. I also know lthat any mechanic in any small town using parts from NAPA can get you back on the road. I used to do most of my own service, but at 84 I have cut back on that a lot. That said, I have confidence in getting going again if it is not major. As for the steering, it has never ginen a problem. No wandering, no juddering, it tracks straight down the road. I have never had it alligned either. I am careful about tires, I always use Michelins and have been very satisfied.