Lexan replacement window adhesive

jjrbus

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Sep 17, 2015
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491
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fl
I have an 02 Roadtrek 200 and the pass side upper rear window has been replaced with plexiglass. The replacement was installed with what I assume is silicon. Took a few hours to remove the window and the silicon. I am in the I hate silicon camp and would never use it on an RV.

Guess what the recommended adhesive is for polycarbonate? Silicon! Anyone know of any options for adhesive?? I am tempted to use butyl tape and screw or rivet it in place.

The adhesive on the bottom opening glass is failing so I will redo those while I am at it. I plan to use 3M window weld with primer. Pricey but the windows are no longer available, any options on window weld.
 
I am also in the hate silicone club, but in this case I probably would make an exception, depending on how the window mounts, like face mount groove, etc.

Lexan windows have limited lifetime because of discoloring, scratching, cracking, etc so being able to change them can be necessary. If you use urethane or such getting it back out will be much harder and cleanup even worse. Silicone seems to be a decent balance of holding power, flexibility and removable in this case.
 
I am also in the hate silicone club, but in this case I probably would make an exception, depending on how the window mounts, like face mount groove, etc.

Lexan windows have limited lifetime because of discoloring, scratching, cracking, etc so being able to change them can be necessary. If you use urethane or such getting it back out will be much harder and cleanup even worse. Silicone seems to be a decent balance of holding power, flexibility and removable in this case.
I agree, however this also makes butyl tape and mechanical fasteners an attractive option. The brand I am using is Tuffak which recommends a elongated mounting hole to compensate for expansion. The expansion shown is 0.120 per 8 foot of sheet. I am using 33" lengthwise so thinking if I use a #4 screw and drill a 1/8" hole I would have more than enough room for expansion. Figuring out how to space the screws will take some effort.

I also found out that there is an outside for the sheets, I did not know that!
 
Just a suggestion; but, why not stop at your local window / glass center (not big box stores) and ask them? When I replaced my home windows, they sold me a double sided tape to hold mine in place. Not sure if it would work in a dynamic environment.
 
Good question. It is a matter of trust. I asked where I bought the plastic and they told me to use liquid nails, the manufacturer recommends silicone for polycarbonate. Where I bought the sheet is a plastics business. When I looked at what they sold me it is not the color I wanted!

I could not find the polycarbonate in the preferred color now have acrylic sheeting so needed to start all over again.

1762177705765.png
 
I agree, however this also makes butyl tape and mechanical fasteners an attractive option. The brand I am using is Tuffak which recommends a elongated mounting hole to compensate for expansion. The expansion shown is 0.120 per 8 foot of sheet. I am using 33" lengthwise so thinking if I use a #4 screw and drill a 1/8" hole I would have more than enough room for expansion. Figuring out how to space the screws will take some effort.

I also found out that there is an outside for the sheets, I did not know that!
Linear expansion rates are interesting and confusing sometimes. You need to take the spec and apply it to your specific conditions, allowing also for the mating components expansion. Commonly a big deal in windows of all types, and especially in dark colors of vinyl home windows now. One of the hardest parts is that the spec for linear expansion for the adhesive is usually specific to a specific thickness of bead. In reality the spec is a sliding scale with bead thickness not a fixed value. Thick beads have more ability to stretch and thin beads tear easily. If you look at the construction of factory mounted windows in vehicles that tend to use mechanical fasteners you will find the normally would have a big hole with a bolt through it that is much smaller and the actual holding is done by big, soft, relatively thick rubber or fabric or such washers on each side of the glass. There is a discussion of one of them on a Chevy rear window now on the forum.

The problem on many of the side windows, like we have on many of our vans is that it isn't very conducive to doing that kind of mounting, so that can be harder. At least with Lexan you are less likely to have heat expansion break it compared to glass. The bouncing and such that they see going down the road makes it a tougher job for sure.

To do what you are looking at, the room you have available for bead height is probably the biggest deal, as is how to control the bounce because of the thicker bead needed for flex for expansion.

You might want to think about using a combination system of a thin or stick on gasketing for sealing, like a factory install would be and the bolts holding it to be shoulder bolts of the right gap amount with rubber or fiber gaskets on one side. To handle the bounce, a simple support on the lower edge of the glass, if it full frames so you can do it would work. On our 07 Roadtred 190 the rear awning windows are frameless and only held with adhesive in a narrow channel, but the gasket that it seal to on the window frame has a slight step on it do support the window when closed to prevent bounce pulling it out of the channel. That said, both of them had the window twisted so much to fit the van that the window didn't engage the step and didn't close right so I had to address all that.

But, in the case where others have done the Lexan replacement, they just glued them in with an appropriate adhesive and moved on. Not a bad way IMO as the risk is low. By the time the adhesive starts to fail the Lexan will probably be scratched up and discolored and need replacement anyway. Lots of them have been done this way.
 
Linear expansion rates are interesting and confusing sometimes. You need to take the spec and apply it to your specific conditions, allowing also for the mating components expansion. Commonly a big deal in windows of all types, and especially in dark colors of vinyl home windows now. One of the hardest parts is that the spec for linear expansion for the adhesive is usually specific to a specific thickness of bead. In reality the spec is a sliding scale with bead thickness not a fixed value. Thick beads have more ability to stretch and thin beads tear easily. If you look at the construction of factory mounted windows in vehicles that tend to use mechanical fasteners you will find the normally would have a big hole with a bolt through it that is much smaller and the actual holding is done by big, soft, relatively thick rubber or fabric or such washers on each side of the glass. There is a discussion of one of them on a Chevy rear window now on the forum.

The problem on many of the side windows, like we have on many of our vans is that it isn't very conducive to doing that kind of mounting, so that can be harder. At least with Lexan you are less likely to have heat expansion break it compared to glass. The bouncing and such that they see going down the road makes it a tougher job for sure.

To do what you are looking at, the room you have available for bead height is probably the biggest deal, as is how to control the bounce because of the thicker bead needed for flex for expansion.

You might want to think about using a combination system of a thin or stick on gasketing for sealing, like a factory install would be and the bolts holding it to be shoulder bolts of the right gap amount with rubber or fiber gaskets on one side. To handle the bounce, a simple support on the lower edge of the glass, if it full frames so you can do it would work. On our 07 Roadtred 190 the rear awning windows are frameless and only held with adhesive in a narrow channel, but the gasket that it seal to on the window frame has a slight step on it do support the window when closed to prevent bounce pulling it out of the channel. That said, both of them had the window twisted so much to fit the van that the window didn't engage the step and didn't close right so I had to address all that.

But, in the case where others have done the Lexan replacement, they just glued them in with an appropriate adhesive and moved on. Not a bad way IMO as the risk is low. By the time the adhesive starts to fail the Lexan will probably be scratched up and discolored and need replacement anyway. Lots of them have been done this way. If you are worried about it hitting another vehicle if it fails and fall out, screw on a short tether to hold it if falls out. No need for washers, gaskets on it as a tether has no stress on it until needed at failure.
 
It seems so simple to do. I have visited the manufacurers website for help. The information there is done by engineers for engineers so confusing for an engineer who blew the horn and rang the bell.

The to further complicate the frame is powder coated aluminum, to get the silicone off I removed most of the coating.

An owner on FB solved the problem with aluminum composit.
1762185279621.jpeg
 
It seems so simple to do. I have visited the manufacurers website for help. The information there is done by engineers for engineers so confusing for an engineer who blew the horn and rang the bell.

The to further complicate the frame is powder coated aluminum, to get the silicone off I removed most of the coating.

An owner on FB solved the problem with aluminum composit. View attachment 1949752
That is kind of interesting to me as it could be curved as needed and would last forever, most likely. It is low on the window and not in most of the line of site also.

I don't know what an aluminum composite is, but probably a laminated product of some sort. Using solid aluminum would also work, I think.

Definitely something to consider, that I don't we have ever seen here.
 
I have been doing my due diligence and started leaning towards 3M VHB tape. Then as I researched there is way too much info online and some of it quite confusing. Many of the You tube videos show the use of the tape but do not tell which VHB tape they are using.

I should use silicone but cannot bring myself to do it. I decided to use butyl rubber tape and mechanical fasteners on the upper (non operating) window. If this fails it will be easy to go back to silicone.

For the lower (opening) window there is a fair amount of different adhesives on it so instead of trying to clean I opted to replace it with acrylic. I will use VHB tape and mechanical fasteners for the hinge and for the brackets for the opening mechanism.

I could type for an hour and not include everything involved in this. ie using # 6 screws as the hole's in acrylic need to be 1.5 times the diameter of the hole from the edge. My mounting areas are fairly small and I need to use larger holes for expansion. Also manufacturer recommends the use of rubber washers between the fastener and acrylic, so now I need #6 rubber washers.
 
Ended up using butyl rubber tape and sheet metal screws for the top window, the tape did not compress as much as I would have liked, except for the paint that pulled off looks way better than the faded plastic that was in there. Of course how long will it look good?

I have the bottom glass it has several different adhesives on it so will replace it with plastic, will use 3M VHB tape and machine screws. Depending on how this goes may replace the opening window on the other side with acrylic also.
1762535683934.jpeg
 
Cleaning up the bottom window frame and realized this window was sealed shut. My plan was to use the VHB tape and nuts and bolts on the hinge. Now I see the hinge sits flat against the window frame when closed leaving no room for the fasteners I had planned!
1762566357214.jpeg
 
Doing my due dilligence I decided on VHB tape and fasteners for the acrilic opening window. The manufacturer says holes near the edge need to be 1.5 times the diameter from the edge of the sheet I experimented with this and if close to the edge they break easy. The mounting flange is 3/8" and my holes need to be 3/16" so no space to add fasteners. Looks like I will only be able to use the VHB tape and no fasteners. I do not know is the 1.5 applies to polycarbonate.

I looked into composit aluminum which appears to be the plastic cardboard with thin aluminum surface they use for signmaking. Does not seem like a good option for me. I am looking at using aluminum sheet which could be curved for a tight weather stripping fit. I have the RT 200 with the large rear window so losing a bit of window is not an issue.
1762614278336.jpeg
 

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