Old dog learns new problem on his Roadtrek

[Doneworking]

We recently took a short trip for three days in our 2007 Roadtrek 210P. We bought this RT new in 2006, ordered out to our specs. After all these years, I learned something I will share.

We got home, unpacked and turned off the coach batteries. Our RT is stored in a garage at our home. I went out a few days later, turned on the coach power on the control panel and observed the voltage meter I installed years ago in the same area. After having been plugged in for three days camping in a state park and having driven 250 miles home, I expected the batteries to show a good voltage five days later, but lo it was below twelve votes. NOT GOOD.

Since the power was off and the batteries (which were in good shape) were so drained, I checked for low water in one of the battery cells. Nope, all just fine and I had checked them prior to the trip. Of course, on most rvs there is some parasitic drain on the power because of a sensor or something else but I have never had trouble with that on our RT.

Quite by accident I noticed that the switch near the control panel that activates the inverter was ON. I thought that was odd and tried a little experiment. I turned off the power again at the control panel, turned on the TV and lo and behold it came on!

I had no idea whatsoever that the wiring was such that the invertor in the on position was activated even though the coach power was turned off on the control panel.

Lesson learned. It took almost twenty years of ownership to learn this little tidbit. Of course, the coach batteries would have been ruined if I hadn't discovered the drain and the RT had gone unattended for several weeks.

Moral to the story is check the invertor switch when you turn off the coach batteries at the control panel.

 

[booster]

Very common problem with almost all the RVs as the power relay that is activated by the control panel switch is after the shore charger and batteries so it can be turned on by the switch even if the switch is off. This means that the charger is always active when the batteries are connected in a Roadtrek because they chose to not put a manual disconnect switch between the batteries and the shore charger. If the charger is active the switch to turn on the inverter is active so it can run the inverter if on. Is your inverter switch on the short panel where the outside light is so you can't see it from the control panel side? Ours was and it was really easy to leave on accidentally or even bump on. For long storage without being plugged in the best is to add a manual switch right after the batteries so everything is inactive because even the just the charger will drain some power with the inverter off also. That switch location has been covered for years on our 07 now with the inverter turned on via the remote panels of the (various) inverters and chargers we have used over years.

 

[Doneworking]

Yes, the inverter is located facing the front passenger seat just inside the door. I do have a cut off on my batteries but don't normally use it because, since our RT is stored in our third car garage here at home, we drive it every few days somewhere.

 

[TX-Trek]

Same setup on our 2010 RT, I learned the hard way that the inverter must be off when it's back home just sitting.

However in order for it to be plugged into the garage GFI, the inverter must be on, otherwise it trips the outlet. I think its how the GFI looks for ground faults. Has worked this way for years. Main power to the van is routed thru a Progressive Industries EMS-LCHW30.

Another thing, on our last trip I had the inverter off for a good part of the trip. We don't boondock, our stops always were connected to 30a shore power. In between, coach battery switch left on while driving, no problems with charging.

Driving about 14.5v, shore power about 13.5v going into the batteries. There's a Blue Sea 7622 battery separator in the system, replacing the original Eaton 1315 unit. We also have the same coach battery latching solenoid switch as you do in the panel - both the switch and the solenoid have been replaced over time.

 

[justducky-ClassB]

My 04C190P has the house 12v battery disconnect latching solenoid before the tripp.Lite converter so there is no need for a manual disconnect Looks like 2005 was also like this. 2006 was the year they changed to what you describe

 

[GroupB]

Also the same as my 2008 RT. Have done no upgrades to the electrical system, just maintenance.

A couple of years ago, the system developed an odd behavior. When boondocking we use the inverter for charging electronics and running the TV. Turn the inverter on, use any of the outlets for any purpose, in about a minute the GFI trips. Reset the GFI and it never happens again while the inverter is on, even if turning the loads on or off. I've changed the GFI outlet - still the same.

Any theories?

 

[booster]

Does it do it if you turn on the inverter and wait a couple of minutes before using anything?

 

[sbslider]

My 04C190P has the house 12v battery disconnect latching solenoid before the tripp.Lite converter so there is no need for a manual disconnect Looks like 2005 was also like this. 2006 was the year they changed to what you describe

by 2006 190P uses the solenoid to turn everything off. No need to worry about shutting off the inverter separately. I just tested with a DVM to verify.

 

[jeana-ClassB]

well These posts bring up something I have never understood Have a MUR HT Xplorer dodge ram 97 Looks just like roadtrek on outside. HAve had it for 5 yrs Love it Despite having solar at home I have never understood something See if someone can explain please using third grade language There is a tiny solar panel on the roof Beats me what it does.Under a door step on the side door is a black box I think inverter I know of no other battery than the one under the hood We have had to replace the one under the hood twice It gets boosted by AAA but will not hold a charge- yes we use the van sometimes infrequently but we did not think batteries should go bad once charged But it does not hold a charge When driving it alot all is fine. I have no switch on a control panel for inverter Van is under wraps for winter so cannot send photo of panel Thanks I have an owner's manual but it is unhelpful

 

[booster]

by 2006 190P uses the solenoid to turn everything off. No need to worry about shutting off the inverter separately. I just tested with a DVM to verify.

You must have a very early 2006 as it appears to be working like the older ones that have the charger on the output side of the power relay. The 2006 owners manual shows the charger on the battery side and our 07 190 was that way so always connected to the batteries. I assume you have to have the relay connected to get the charger to be charged by shore power?

 

[sbslider]

You must have a very early 2006 as it appears to be working like the older ones that have the charger on the output side of the power relay. The 2006 owners manual shows the charger on the battery side and our 07 190 was that way so always connected to the batteries. I assume you have to have the relay connected to get the charger to be charged by shore power?

Yes, we do need to have the battery connected to the system prior to connecting to shore power.

 

[GroupB]

Does it do it if you turn on the inverter and wait a couple of minutes before using anything?

It does, however your question got me thinking about the items connected in the AV cabinet so I tried a few sceneries. There is a TV and DVD player.

If they are plugged in, and then the inverter is turned on, the countdown is on and the GFI trips after a minute.

When they are not plugged in and the inverter is turned on, then the items are plugged in, GFI does not trip.

Don't know if there are any negative consequences of this situation.

 

[booster]

I found this in a quick Google search for the issue and my guess is that this is what is happening.

I don't know that answer Josh. Tripp-Lite has since sent me this:

"While you might from time to time be able to get away with using GFCI with this or other products, it is not a recommended or supported application, nor behavior that can be counted on to be either dependent or replicable. Due to the amount of leakage current while in inverter mode, GFCI outlets hardwired to this inverter could get tripped. It's not a design flaw, but due to the outlet's sensitivity to the modified PWM sine wave this units put out while on battery power."

The older gfci outlets tripped at a higher leakage amperage than the newer ones that are crazy sensitive sometimes so not surprising. Using a different gfci outlet might help. I have read that the major brands like Leviton and others are more consistent against false tripping but haven't tested that ever. Switching to a pure sine wave inverter would probably take care of it or switching the outlets to regular outlets, which is not recommended for safety reasons in a vehicle with no ground the earth unless plugged into shore power. It is very possible that the inverter itself, that is 17 years old is just generating more current leakage than it did when new do to aging components in it.

 

[GroupB]

This all rings true to me. The GFI is doing its job and we can live with an occasional reset.

 

[escapester]

I have a 2005 210 and don't have an inverter switch by the door. I did however add the plug switch so I can turn the inverter on when we need it. When we a not using the rv I go under the bed and switch the triplite inverter/charger to the off position, then put the battery switch on the panel above the door off. Am I missing something? I don't have another gauge to monitor other than the control panel lights.