Road Trek Handling (front rake)

[romeo-ClassB]

Well it's time to, again, visit an old topic: Road Trek van ride Height.

I have discussed van handling at length with Booster some time ago. The subject and my handling problem was tabled until I could get some preliminaries completed. However, today it came up again as I'm getting ready to travel soon.


PROBLEM:

When towing our Jeep Grand Cherokee, the van steering seems to over-steer in curves; to the extent that it can be un-nerving, and very uncomfortable.

I was looking at the van and decided to think about the noticeable "rake" in the stance of the van. I have noticed others have mentioned modifying the ride height of a Chevrolet Express van so decided to see what AI had to say about the subject.


Question: “Has anyone modified van rake to specifically solve handling problems? And, if so, what were the results with the method used.”



AI (Artificial Intelligence) knew all about the subject and apparently, as it related to the Chevrolet Express van. I normally take “internet” answer with a grain of salt and AI with 2-grains of salt, but this AI answer sounds pretty accurate.

Here is how a forward rake affects vehicle handling:

• Increasing Oversteer: Generally, increasing forward rake tends to shift the balance toward oversteer. As the rear roll center rises relative to the front, the rear of the car becomes more prone to "stepping out" during hard cornering.

• Front Downforce: A forward rake can act like a wedge, forcing more air over the top of the car and potentially creating a low-pressure zone underneath (depending on the design of the air dam and undertray). This increases front-end downforce.
• Rear Lift: The risk of an aggressive forward rake is that it can allow too much air to enter under the rear of the vehicle, potentially creating "lift" at the back. This can make the car feel light or "twitchy" at high speeds.
• By raising the rear, you increase the distance between the center of gravity and the rear roll center.
• This typically increases the "roll stiffness" at the back, meaning the rear suspension resists leaning more than the front, which further contributes to that oversteer bias mentioned earlier

Dealing with "forward rake"—where the front of your Chevy Express or Savana sits significantly lower than the rear—is common, especially if the van isn't constantly loaded with heavy equipment.
Here are the most effective ways to level out the stance:
1. Coil Spring Spacers (Leveling Kit)
This is the most straightforward method for 2500 and 3500 series vans.

Note: This was only one of the several methods mentioned to correct vehicle “rake”.

 

[booster]

I would question a lot those statements.

A Roadtrek is constantly fully loaded so no light load oversteer possible. It is nearly impossible to make a Roadtrek actually oversteer, which means having the rear end swing out in a turn because of the very high rear wheel weight.

A slight rake is going to increase downforce and maybe more in the front, and that is a good thing as it will increase front traction. Heavily loaded vans like ours with high rear weight are chronic understeering vehicles, meaning they will push out the front wheels in a turn.

Nearly all the improvements we do like rear sway bars and increased front tire pressure will reduce understeer.

A lift with higher rate springs will decrease front traction and increase rear, which is not a good thing in a Roadtrek, but is necessary to get back to decent ride height and clearance. The change can be handled with a big rear swaybar which will counteract the understeer.

Especially when towing I can see no reason that you can have oversteer feel unless the you have a hitch that is severely reducing rear wheel weight.

What are feeling and at what speeds, turning rate, etc.? It just sounds like you must be feeling something else.

We did have user on here say similar things a while ago, and what it eventually got worked out to be was a van that was towed out in the front and that may the front end dart into turns making it feel like the van was "oversteering".

 

[GroupB]

When I read the problem, my first thought was - a 5 ton vehicle towing a 2 ton vehicle and things don't feel right around a turn - maybe not braking enough BEFORE entering the turn.

I would experiment with driving technique to see if improvement can be made.

 

[booster]

Yeah, there are some possibilities there maybe if under heavy braking while turning. I think some of it may hinge on whether he is towing 4 down so the vehicle turns easier or a 4 wheel trailer that would resist the turning.

 

[romeo-ClassB]

Booster: “…Heavily loaded vans like ours with high rear weight are chronic understeering vehicles, meaning they will push out the front wheels in a turn.

Romeo: I can understand that; I see that as the weight in the rear lifting the front end and causing the tires to be “unloaded”, or lifting off the ground and losing traction. That would tend to cause “understeer:.

However; I would think that a “rake” on the front end would cause the opposite condition, putting more weight on the front end, giving more front tire traction and therefore more tendency to oversteer.

Booster: “Nearly all the improvements we do like rear sway bars and increased front tire pressure will reduce understeer.”

Romeo: True, a rear Anti-sway bar will keep the front tires from lifting in a turn and cause more traction on the road surface. And more front tire pressure effects eaiser turning. I started to bring up the Coefficient of Friction, but that involves Static Coefficient and Kinetic Coefficient and that deepens the issue so let’s ignore Static and consider we are just dealing with Kinetic friction on a turning tire.

It seems to me that to lessen understeer the sway bar will work to effect additional cornering traction and the tire pressure adjustment will work to fine tune the amount of traction. We have discussed that subject in past conversations; I used to and still do, adjust tire pressure to correct oversteer and understeer. However, that can cause tire undesired tire wear if one needs too much adjustment.

Booster: “… I can see no reason that you can have oversteer feel unless you have a hitch that is severely reducing rear wheel weight.
What are feeling and at what speeds, turning rate, etc.? It just sounds like you must be feeling something else.”

Romeo: I tow 4-down with a Roadmaster Sterling tow bar and a Roadmaster EvenBrake. As you probably know, the tow bar does not put any tongue weight on the towing vehicle. I do not have a generator in the chassis, on the back as do many Road Treks, as I have the underhood generator (Nations brand alternator). I do carry heavy items in the rear space inside the van, however, it’s probably about the weight of the under chassis generator.

Since I do not have the same “oversteer” situation when I’m not towing, I think it may have something to do with the towed car weight pushing me through a turn as aluded to by Group B. That dosen’t mean that I’m going to live with it, I still want to solve the problem.

I’m not sure how to explain the feeling other by just stating “oversteer”. The vehicle wants to turn tighter/more that I want it to in a curve at freeway speeds (60 or 70 mph). I have to turn the wheel back, so to speak in order to stay in my lane or not crash into the concrete divider.

Group B: I would experiment with driving technique to see if improvement can be made.When I read the problem, my first thought was - a 5 ton vehicle towing a 2 ton vehicle and things don't feel right around a turn - maybe not braking enough BEFORE entering the turn.”

Romeo: Believe me I have a lot of experience practicing driving technique. Since buying the van we have made at least (10) 1300 mile trips back and for from Washington to Yuma.

I don’t know how many Road Treks have the 6-speed transmission with the manual shift option, but I feel lucky that mine has it along with “Tow Mode” and “Traction Control”. I normally do not brake in curves. I would rather used the engine to decrease speed and have the engine set RPM wise to power out of a curve. So, most of the time I will use the manual shift mode when dealing with a curvy hiway. I have much more control over my speed and handling. I also used that method with our 40 foot motorhome. That way I didn’t have to deal with the “floating” around a curve feeling, I had engine control.

Booster: “Yeah, there are some possibilities there maybe if under heavy braking while turning.”

Romeo: Nope, not applicable. No braking in turns (will not normally).

 

[booster]

Booster: “…Heavily loaded vans like ours with high rear weight are chronic understeering vehicles, meaning they will push out the front wheels in a turn.

Romeo: I can understand that; I see that as the weight in the rear lifting the front end and causing the tires to be “unloaded”, or lifting off the ground and losing traction. That would tend to cause “understeer:.

However; I would think that a “rake” on the front end would cause the opposite condition, putting more weight on the front end, giving more front tire traction and therefore more tendency to oversteer.

I would say the wheels are not lifted by the rear weight although it does contribute to where the center of gravity is for the entire van and that determines how the weight is distributed. The rake moves the center of gravity a tiny bit forward as is the sine of a very small angle. I would say non consequential in reality. It can make the rear more unstable if you lift it higher as the roll center of the rear axle moves up some but you would see that in wind mostly.

Booster: “Nearly all the improvements we do like rear sway bars and increased front tire pressure will reduce understeer.”

Romeo: True, a rear Anti-sway bar will keep the front tires from lifting in a turn and cause more traction on the road surface. And more front tire pressure effects eaiser turning. I started to bring up the Coefficient of Friction, but that involves Static Coefficient and Kinetic Coefficient and that deepens the issue so let’s ignore Static and consider we are just dealing with Kinetic friction on a turning tire.
The antisway bar actually helps hold down the inside wheel and lift the outside wheel to help balance the side to side wheel to body height and puts more load on the outside rear wheel and less on the inside one getting more reducing the axle net traction in the rear while letting the front suspension comply to the tilt of the less tilted body. Rear bars increase front traction and reduce the rear improving balance and reducing understeer. The net change is dependent on the spring rate of the sway bar that determines the amount of difference in actual body height to the ground. The rear bar holds the rear wheel flatter to each other from the body and can actually lift the inside tire off the ground on light cars, especially the old design single trailing arm ones
It seems to me that to lessen understeer the sway bar will work to effect additional cornering traction and the tire pressure adjustment will work to fine tune the amount of traction. We have discussed that subject in past conversations; I used to and still do, adjust tire pressure to correct oversteer and understeer. However, that can cause tire undesired tire wear if one needs too much adjustment.

Swaybars improve corning normally and can balance over and understeer by their sizing. Tire pressures can work to improve front to rear balance of over and understeer with more pressure increasing traction (to a point) and lower pressur reduces traction, so higher in the front and lower in the rear will improve under steer. You can't mess with side to side pressures as it will mess up all kinds of things including straight line handling.

Booster: “… I can see no reason that you can have oversteer feel unless you have a hitch that is severely reducing rear wheel weight.
What are feeling and at what speeds, turning rate, etc.? It just sounds like you must be feeling something else.”

Romeo: I tow 4-down with a Roadmaster Sterling tow bar and a Roadmaster EvenBrake. As you probably know, the tow bar does not put any tongue weight on the towing vehicle. I do not have a generator in the chassis, on the back as do many Road Treks, as I have the underhood generator (Nations brand alternator). I do carry heavy items in the rear space inside the van, however, it’s probably about the weight of the under chassis generator.

Since I do not have the same “oversteer” situation when I’m not towing, I think it may have something to do with the towed car weight pushing me through a turn as aluded to by Group B. That dosen’t mean that I’m going to live with it, I still want to solve the problem.

I’m not sure how to explain the feeling other by just stating “oversteer”. The vehicle wants to turn tighter/more that I want it to in a curve at freeway speeds (60 or 70 mph). I have to turn the wheel back, so to speak in order to stay in my lane or not crash into the concrete divider.

Group B: I would experiment with driving technique to see if improvement can be made.When I read the problem, my first thought was - a 5 ton vehicle towing a 2 ton vehicle and things don't feel right around a turn - maybe not braking enough BEFORE entering the turn.”

Romeo: Believe me I have a lot of experience practicing driving technique. Since buying the van we have made at least (10) 1300 mile trips back and for from Washington to Yuma.

I don’t know how many Road Treks have the 6-speed transmission with the manual shift option, but I feel lucky that mine has it along with “Tow Mode” and “Traction Control”. I normally do not brake in curves. I would rather used the engine to decrease speed and have the engine set RPM wise to power out of a curve. So, most of the time I will use the manual shift mode when dealing with a curvy hiway. I have much more control over my speed and handling. I also used that method with our 40 foot motorhome. That way I didn’t have to deal with the “floating” around a curve feeling, I had engine control.
Trailers can do some weird stuff in turns depending on braking and how much brake is on the trailer. Normal trailer say you have to put 10% of the trailer weight on the hitch which increases rear traction to prevent say and oscillations moving the whole back of the truck. A 4 down,no extra tongue weight changes all of that. Couple that with not braking while in the corner where probably will still be slowing down, especially if using engine braking that reduces rear traction by using some of that traction, just from turning friction. You get the full weight and momentum pushing the van rear only out on the turn. If you were braking and had enough braking on the toad it would likely hold the rear of the van back and increase understeer instead. My guess is overbraking going into the curve/turn and then holding the throttle to maintain at least the same speed or better slightly accelerating through the turn may actually hold the van rear in so won't get the pushed out feel you have now.
Booster: “Yeah, there are some possibilities there maybe if under heavy braking while turning.”

Romeo: Nope, not applicable. No braking in turns (will not normally).

I probably should have stated braking in turns more on the van than the toad is braking. See above.

See answers in Bold above

 

[Luv2Go-ClassB]

FWIW, we resolved the "oversteer" issues we had with our 2005 210V with a rear track bar. We found that in certain situations, like braking around curves with the toad, the tail tagged the dog with a Prius, not heavy but not the lightest vehicle in the world. Also even without the toad we had a lot of unintended movement when being passed by vehicles larger than a small car when going slow and any time going around curves when going faster. The track bar resolved these issues, of course we did a bunch of other stuff to resolve the rest of the ride issues.

 

[romeo-ClassB]

Luv2Go:

“FWIW, we resolved the "oversteer" issues we had with our 2005 210V with a rear track bar. We found that in certain situations, like braking around curves with the toad, the tail tagged the dog with a Prius, not heavy but not the lightest vehicle in the world. Also even without the toad we had a lot of unintended movement when being passed by vehicles larger than a small car when going slow and any time going around curves when going faster. The track bar resolved these issues, of course we did a bunch of other stuff to resolve the rest of the ride issues.”

Romeo: This is interesting since it seems to partially address my problem. I need to look into the use of a Track Bar Rod since it is a new device to me. I did mention earlier that I had the notion that the towed vehicle might be causing a pushing effect on the van when in a curve, since it did feel that way. So the fact that you mentioned that as one of your solved problems gives credence to my thoughts.

B00STER: Looking forward to any comments or additions to the following that you may have.

What I find via “AI” is this:​

Why do I need a Track Bar or Panhard Bar:

“If you are feeling a bit of "sway" [not really…] or a floating sensation while driving [no], especially when towing or navigating curves [yes]—a Panhard bar (also known as a track bar) is likely the solution you're looking for.
On vehicles with solid axles and coil springs, the axle is great at moving up and down to soak up bumps, but it has a tendency to shift side-to-side under pressure.”

What it Does
A Panhard bar is a rigid metal rod that connects the vehicle's chassis to one side of the axle. Its sole job is to prevent lateral movement. Without it, the body of the vehicle can shift left or right independently of the wheels, which leads to several issues:
Oversteer in Curves: When you turn, centrifugal force pushes the body of the vehicle outward. If the axle isn't centered by a track bar, the rear of the vehicle can "wash out," making it feel like the back end is trying to overtake the front.

Vague Steering: If the axle is shifting side-to-side, you constantly have to make small steering corrections just to stay in a straight line. [that feels familiar]

Why it Matters for Towing

When you are towing a heavy load, especially "flat-towing" another vehicle, the weight behind you exerts significant side-to-side force on your rear axle. [makes sense] This is often described as the "tail wagging the dog." [I don’t feel that, much] A heavy-duty track bar stabilizes that connection, ensuring that the energy from the towed load doesn't cause the tow vehicle to wander.

The Trade-off
The only real "downside" to a Panhard bar is that because it moves in an arc, there is a tiny amount of lateral movement as the suspension compresses fully. However, for 99% of driving—especially in vans, RVs, and trucks—the stability it provides far outweighs this minor characteristic.
If you are dealing with a vehicle that feels "loose" in the rear during highway speeds [cornering for me] or while cornering, checking the health of your current track bar (or installing an upgraded one) is usually the first step to tightening up the handling.

Does the 2015 Chevrolet come with a track bar as Standard Equipment?

The short answer is no, the 2015 Chevrolet Express does not come standard with a Panhard bar (track bar) from the factory.
Here is the breakdown of why your van doesn't have one and why people often add them:
Why it's missing
Your Express van uses a leaf spring rear suspension. In a leaf spring setup, the long metal plates are bolted to the frame at both ends. These springs are designed to handle two jobs at once:
1. Supporting the weight of the van.
2. Acting as the "locators" to keep the axle from moving side-to-side.

Because the leaf springs are wide and rigid, GM engineers decided a dedicated track bar wasn't necessary for standard commercial use.
The "Hidden" Problem
While leaf springs do a decent job of keeping the axle centered, they aren't perfect—especially as they age or when they are under a heavy load (like an RV conversion or when towing).
• Leaf Spring Bushing Flex: The rubber bushings at the ends of the springs can flex significantly.
• Side-to-Side Sway: Under heavy lateral loads (like a gust of wind or a sharp curve), the springs can actually "twist" or shift slightly. This creates that floating or "tail-wagging" feeling you might be experiencing.

Should you add one?
Since you're working with a heavy setup—especially if you're towing—adding an aftermarket Panhard bar (often called a SuperSteer or Henderson track bar in the van world) is one of the most popular upgrades for the Express platform.
It provides a solid mechanical link that the leaf springs just can't match, virtually eliminating the side-to-side "shudder" when a semi-truck passes [we seem to get some] you on the highway or when you're navigating mountain curves.
Quick Check: If you crawl under the back of the van, you’ll see the big leaf spring packs, but you won't see a bar running diagonally from the frame to the axle. If you see one, it's an aftermarket addition!

Booster: I don’t remember if you mentioned or suggested a Track Bar or if you added one with you upgrades. I remember you mentioned a rear anti-sway bar.

Thank you all that have added to this discussion since it is helping me to consider additions that may help with my problem. I am leery of making any additions, however, until I can determined that the cost won’t be a waste. My first step was to get a good wheel alignment and weigh the van. last I wanted to make a couple of 1300 mile trips before trying the next solution. Those did not seem to make any real difference once a was able to load the van and hook up the towed car. So now on to the next step (???).

 

[booster]

I am not a big fan of track bars on leaf spring systems unless it is a Watts linkage style track bar. To work without binding, because they travel on an arc (except Watts linkage which are linear) the bar requires the rest of the suspension to have enough looseness to allow that arc without binding. Track bars are more commonly used on coil spring, trailing arm, style suspensions.

Of course there are, IMO, exceptions based on spring geometry and design. If you have a big lift with a lot of arch in them, the twisting leverage on springs can be higher for instance. The springs in most Chevies are close to flat and the hitch is probably close to the same height as the axle so pretty non twisting I think.

In your case the big question is if the axle is really moving around side to side and if it is causing the axle to go out of line and parallel with the front wheels and doing a rear steer issue or not.

Or is it that the side push of the trailer is overpowering the traction of rear tires and effectively doing a minor skid. Larger rear tires with stiffer sidewalls are commonly used on tow vehicles from what I have seen to increase rear traction.

Most would say to never brake in turn or curve, which is possible in normal driving to do. Brake early and slightly accelerate out of the turn and the trailer won't push out the the rear. In steep descents I have heard that some turn up the trailer brakes to reduce push out, but need to monitor trailer brake temps. If possible to put more braking into the toad, your problem might go away.

Here is an AI summary (accuracy check needed always with AI) about increasing trailer braking on descents.

"Using more trailer braking on steep hills to improve "push out" (where the trailer pushes the tow vehicle forward or sideways on curves) can be an effective control technique, but it must be done carefully to avoid overheating. This practice—often called "stretching" the rig—uses the trailer's braking force to keep the combination under tension, preventing the trailer from overriding the tow vehicle's rear end"

Installing a track bar to try won't hurt anything except your pocketbook, and it is totally reversible so is an option if you want to try it.

Most heavy towing is done with pickups as they are the ones that have the capacity to do it. Pickups are like vans in that they don't come with rear swaybars in most cases as they would be too dangerous in slippery conditions by causing spin outs from oversteer. The manufacturers are wise to do that because of the light rear weight in the trucks. A big rear bar is added by many pickup owners when they tow heavy as it will keep the rear sway down and help hold the rear more flat and stable.

 

[Luv2Go-ClassB]

I was lucky enough to find a Watts linkage style trackbar for the Newmar Class A RV we used to own but could not find one for the Chevy Roadtrek. I don't have fabrication capability myself so went with the Supersteer which is not a Watts style. Fortunately I have not experienced any binding or other ill effects on the 210.

 

[romeo-ClassB]

Boomer: “I am n ot a big fan of track bars on leaf spring systems unless it is a Watts linkage style “

From what I’ve read, I can see that, however, it is stated that Watts Links are more expensive than a Track Bar. I have noticed that they are more complex so I can see why. I am confused from what I have seen with my searches for both types. I have found that a Henderson Track Bar is about $700 for my van and searches show Watts Links about is around $400. So there seems to be some disconnect in internet information. From what you have said, I am guessing that you did not feel you needed one with all the other upgrades that you did. Did you go with a rear sway bar that corrected the understeer?

Boomer: “Brake early and slightly accelerate out of the turn and the trailer won't push out the the rear”

When I do brake to slow down prior to a turn this is the method I use.

iBoomer: “In your case the big question is if the axle is really moving around side to side and if it is causing the axle to go out of line and parallel with the front wheels and doing a rear steer issue or not.”

My feeling isn’t about body roll, if that what you mean; at least to the extent that it concerns me. I don’t get too much of a pushing-to-the-side effect, when a trucks passes

Bommer:“Or is it that the side push of the trailer is overpowering the traction of rear tires and effectively doing a minor skid. Larger rear tires with stiffer sidewalls are commonly used on tow vehicles from what I have seen to increase rear traction.”

The more I analyze the situation, the more I feel that the problem stems from weight in the rear section of the towing assembly, i.e., load aft of the rear seat such as:

• Jeep Grand Cherokee 4800#, plus
• Jeep load 440#

for an estimated total of 5240# towed weight.

Boomer: “Most would say to never brake in turn or curve, which is possible in normal driving to do. Brake early and slightly accelerate out of the turn and the trailer won't push out the the rear. In steep descents I have heard that some turn up the trailer brakes to reduce push out, but need to monitor trailer brake temps. If possible to put more braking into the toad, your problem might go away.

Here is an AI summary (accuracy check needed always with AI) about increasing trailer braking on descents.

"Using more trailer braking on steep hills to improve "push out" (where the trailer pushes the tow vehicle forward or sideways on curves) can be an effective control technique, but it must be done carefully to avoid overheating. This practice—often called "stretching" the rig—uses the trailer's braking force to keep the combination under tension, preventing the trailer from overriding the tow vehicle's rear end"

Boomer: “installing a track bar to try won't hurt anything except your pocketbook, and it is totally reversible so is an option if you want to try it.”

Most heavy towing is done with pickups as they are the ones that have the capacity to do it. Pickups are like vans in that they don't come with rear swaybars in most cases as they would be too dangerous in slippery conditions by causing spin outs from oversteer. The manufacturers are wise to do that because of the light rear weight in the trucks. A big rear bar is added by many pickup owners when they tow heavy as it will keep the rear sway down and help hold the rear more flat and stable.“

Luv2Go: “I was lucky enough to find a Watts linkage style trackbar for the Newmar Class A RV …but could not find one for the Chevy Roadtrek… went with the Supersteer... Fortunately I have not experienced any binding or other ill effects on the 210.”

Interesting, we sold our Dutch Star about 3 years ago since we bought a Park Model in Yuma and didn’t need it for traveling any longer.Only need something to sleep in on trips from Washington to Yuma… miss it.

It would be nice to know how much your Track Bar corrected problems, but I see you did several other things so you may not know which upgrade corrected what unless you made the changes one at a time.

Well, I’m overloaded with information and suspension research and still not sure what to do about my problem, so guess I will take a thinking break and rest from thinking about suspension problems. I’ll take it up again after this trip.

Boomer: I do have one more question: What was your motivation for your Ride-Height upgrade; just the understeer or that plus other concerns? With my 2” difference, front to back, I wonder if that is something that I should correct. At this point I’m not sure if I should think about leveling the ride height, aside from my “oversteer” problem.

 

[booster]

We have done our upgrades incrementally so have most information just related to single changes or interactions.

We did the lift first for road clearance and after found it drove better also, but had also been aligned by the truck shop that put in the springs so could have been a combo of both. I later by a bit got into exactly where the van was on height compared to factory spec. Rear airbags were added to get to level front to rear.

Bilstein shocks came next to prevent overmotion on big bump like bridge approaches. Wind rocking and bump steer got better with them and ride actually got better on small bumps and more controlled on big ones.

Then came the big rear swaybar to address understeer and it was, far and away, the biggest improvement in understeer reduction steering response making for much smaller corrections needed.

I then played with big overload leaf on the rear springs to try to get further off them as we were still banging into in on bridge transitions. I had the overload bent down 1/4" and the banging was reduced.

When airbags became available with a built in bump stop it allowed me to remove the overload leaf completely and just increase the bag pressure a bit. The ride in the rear got much more smooth and much less harsh. The reduced spring rate did slightly increase the understeer, so I just upsized the rear swaybar from 1 3/8" to 1 1/2" and it got better than ever.

We did not need a track bar and very, very few Roadtreks have had them added as, at least when not towing heavy, they aren't needed. I think it is questionable if it would help you.

You have nearly as much weight trying to push you offline as you have rear axle weight and even if you are coasting the van is likely slowing down so the push is probably overpowering you tires with the sideload. The rear tires on a 210 are very near max load all the time so they don't have much traction to give up.

I will ask again about toad braking. Do you have it, what kind, and is it adjustable? It is going to need to have just as much braking or maybe a bit more than if you were driving it and stepping on the brake if you want to eliminate the side force on the van. The towing downhill quote above explains that it is a well understood issue in steep downhills also. Are the front wheels of the toad turning enough to cover the turning radius you are making? If not the sideload will go up. Does the Jeep have a limited slip axle on the rear by any chance?

 

[romeo-ClassB]

Sorry, somewhere along the line I started making replies to BOOMER not Booster

 

[booster]

Sorry, somewhere along the line I started making replies to BOOMER not Booster

Boomer is true also and I have been called much worse

 

[romeo-ClassB]

Booster:
“I later by a bit got into exactly where the van was on height compared to factory spec.”

Where would a person find the Ride Height specs? And should a camper van be set at factory Ride Height? Did Road Trek just load it down with everything they wanted an ignored suspension loads? Why did they leave the front lower than the rear? Those last questions may be somewhat rhetorical.

“I will ask again about toad braking. Do you have it, what kind, and is it adjustable?

I mentioned somewhere above that I have a RoadMaster Even Brake for the toad and the Sterling Tow Bar. The Even Brake had (3) settings each for braking Force and Sensitivity. Of course the brake is only applied when I apply the Van brake. I don’t really have a problem when braking (or have had yet without hard emergency barking). My “perceived oversteer” problem is only in cornering on curvy roads, at hiway speeds.

It is going to need to have just as much braking or maybe a bit more than if you were driving it and stepping on the brake if you want to eliminate the side force on the van. The towing downhill quote above explains that it is a well understood issue in steep downhills also.

Are the front wheels of the toad turning enough to cover the turning radius you are making? If not the sideload will go up.

I have no way of knowing, but since it is Trail Rated and intended to tow 4-down, I would expect that would be as needed.

Does the Jeep have a limited slip axle on the rear by any chance?”

Well, “AI” says “maybe” but is a little confusing so I will have to check further.

Got the answer: It's a Quadratrac II, 5.7 l and has ELSD (Electronic Limited Slip Front and rear Diff) It’s Trail Rated so made to be towed 4-down.

 

[Luv2Go-ClassB]

...

Luv2Go: “I was lucky enough to find a Watts linkage style trackbar for the Newmar Class A RV …but could not find one for the Chevy Roadtrek… went with the Supersteer... Fortunately I have not experienced any binding or other ill effects on the 210.”
...
It would be nice to know how much your Track Bar corrected problems, but I see you did several other things so you may not know which upgrade corrected what unless you made the changes one at a time.

The trackbar preceded all the other installations/upgrades. We used the 210 for a couple of years with those before we did the next upgrades so had plenty of time to experience the results. As I may have mentioned above, it resolved all the tail wagging the dog issues, the other installs resolved the spring-related and ride height-related issues. Also, important to note we never installed a rear sway bar as that may have helped, now that we don't have a generator we could easily install one but are satisfied with the ride we have now.

 

[booster]

What you want to find is called trim height and it is a measurement that is done underneath the van on the suspension. In the front it is a dimension from the center of a control arm pivot to the ground compared to the height from the ground to the bottom of the lower balljoint. With stock wheels and tires it correlates to about 35.5" at the wheel well upper lip to the ground in line with the centerline of the wheel when it is straight ahead. The rear stock is much higher than the front as most load goes back there. It is odd that yours is that high on a 210 as they are rear heavy so maybe some rear spring work or taller blocks have been put in.