Roadtrek 210 4L80E transmission overheating on mountain climbs

[Bangorbob]

Thanks for the info. So I assume you have already figured out the shift points that is best for cooling. I also assume that is listed on this site. So if I took that to someone with a tuner, that possibly would be able to do a tune?

 

[booster]

Thanks for the info. So I assume you have already figured out the shift points that is best for cooling. I also assume that is listed on this site. So if I took that to someone with a tuner, that possibly would be able to do a tune?

There is a lot of information on it and some, of course is early programs that were altered later as I learned what I wanted the van to do better and it was capable of doing it. Others that started with my semi final program did similar changes to it for their preferences. Our current program has not been changed in quite some time with the last change being a more careful speedometer calibration to get it very accurate with the larger tire size we run compared to stock.

Be aware the there can be some compromises like needing to manually cause a downshift or use the shifter to call stay in a gear on a climb. The good is that the standard program doesn't need to change at all and you put the climbing one on the tow/haul program. I changed both programs so that might not be what you want. Mainly I wanted to get rid of the repeated downshifing on rolling hills type stuff. The other users probably would also be able to fill you in on what you gain, which is primarily the ability to solve a large part of the cooling issues, vs what you lose which is primarily you have some manual interventions needed.

 

[TWX]

So back to cooling...

Finally got around to draining/flushing/sanitizing the various tanks. This morning with the final sanitize-drain and subsequent flush and drain I had time to poke around under the hood to look at the existing cooling setup.

View media item 447711
View media item 447713
View media item 447714
No auxiliary heat exchangers of any kind for transmission or oil, no horizontal baffles of any sort at the driver or passenger side.

View media item 447712
Radiator is from 2005. Decent chance that it's original. Did open the radiator cap, there was plenty of pressure released when opening it, a bit of coolant squirted out. Overflow bottle above it is about a half-inch lower than max full cold, but there was still a lot of coolant in the overflow bottle.

There are some signs that there's possibly been work done up front, one of the crossmember strengthening brace bolts is missing:

View media item 447715
What's not clear is exactly how long it's been missing for. Could be just about forever.

I didn't take pictures of the fittings, but both of the in-radiator cooling loops have reasonably clean fittings. Lowers are a little grimy compared to the uppers, but the uppers are completely clean. Hopefully that would mean that disconnecting the lines to add auxiliary cooling would be fairly easy and not require having to make extensive repairs, but we'll have to see.

While in there I noticed that since the GMT-610 platform, with its multiple headlight and grille offerings, has a lot of room behind the headlights and through the holes in the radiator core support for the headlight buckets. Obviously this is where the lack of baffles lets the airflow through. Anyway, I gave some thought to the layout. This is the stock layout as it sits now:

View media item 447716
This seems to be the most common upgrade setup:

View media item 447717
The auxiliary heat exchangers and baffles as illustrated.

With those huge gaps, I'm actually wondering if there's some use in putting the heat exchangers where the baffles normally go:

View media item 447718
There might be room behind the exchangers for puller fans:

View media item 447720
or use reversed baffles up front:

View media item 447719
Or some combination of both:

View media item 447721
Obviously it's important to maintain proper cooling to the primary radiator and to not burn up the battery or the Roadtrek wiring harness behind the headlight assemblies.

 

[booster]

I will try to find the discussion where I show our baffle setup as I did it a bit different but same affect.

There is also a gap down at the bottom of the radiator that is behind the air dam, so I blocked that and also some at the top of the radiator like the hood latch. I did not try to block all the air around the headlights as you do need some cool air to keep engine compartment temps reasonable. I did do some blocking around the fronts of the wheelwells to make more negative pressure in the wells so better pull air out of the engine compartment. Surprisingly, it also seemed to help the front traction a small amount.

Did you get a chance to look at your RPO codes about the locking rear and towing package?

 

[TWX]

I will try to find the discussion where I show our baffle setup as I did it a bit different but same affect.

There is also a gap down at the bottom of the radiator that is behind the air dam, so I blocked that and also some at the top of the radiator like the hood latch. I did not try to block all the air around the headlights as you do need some cool air to keep engine compartment temps reasonable. I did do some blocking around the fronts of the wheelwells to make more negative pressure in the wells so better pull air out of the engine compartment. Surprisingly, it also seemed to help the front traction a small amount.

Did you get a chance to look at your RPO codes about the locking rear and towing package?

Was this it?

Express Van Upgrade Cooling System With a 2 Row Radiator

After purchasing our 2008 Roadtrek 210 (2007 Express 3500 Chassis) and learning that these rigs run hot from others on this forum, I decided to make some upgrades. This posting is about these upgrades. Thanks to booster for his write up of the changes that he made for the idea. I didn't use...

www.classbforum.com

 

[TWX]

These are my RPO Codes:
AJ1
AK5
AS5
AUD
AU3
A18
A19
A31
BA3
B3P
B31
C49
C6Y
C60
C99
DE5
DF5
DT4
EVA
E24
FE9
GT5
JH6
KC4
KD1
KG3
K34
LQ4
MT1
NA4
NT9
N33
PDN
R6J
R8A
SLM
TR9
U1C
U73
VK3
VXS
V22
V37
V73
WEN
XHH
X88
YD3
YD5
YD6
YHH
YK6
ZHH
ZQ2
ZQ3
ZR7
ZW3
ZW9
ZX2
ZY1
1SA
1SZ
5P9
50U
6ZD
7T6
7ZD
93G
931

GT5 is for the 4.10 axle.

This is the tag from the axle in my van:

View media item 447026

 

[booster]

Was this it?

Express Van Upgrade Cooling System With a 2 Row Radiator

After purchasing our 2008 Roadtrek 210 (2007 Express 3500 Chassis) and learning that these rigs run hot from others on this forum, I decided to make some upgrades. This posting is about these upgrades. Thanks to booster for his write up of the changes that he made for the idea. I didn't use...

www.classbforum.com

I think this one has more pix or the baffles.

These are my RPO Codes:
AJ1
AK5
AS5
AUD
AU3
A18
A19
A31
BA3
B3P
B31
C49
C6Y
C60
C99
DE5
DF5
DT4
EVA
E24
FE9
GT5
JH6
KC4
KD1
KG3
K34
LQ4
MT1
NA4
NT9
N33
PDN
R6J
R8A
SLM
TR9
U1C
U73
VK3
VXS
V22
V37
V73
WEN
XHH
X88
YD3
YD5
YD6
YHH
YK6
ZHH
ZQ2
ZQ3
ZR7
ZW3
ZW9
ZX2
ZY1
1SA
1SZ
5P9
50U
6ZD
7T6
7ZD
93G
931

GT5 is for the 4.10 axle.

This is the tag from the axle in my van:

View media item 447026

No limited slip or towing package and you are correct 4.10.

The tag says it is a 60s which is the Dana Super 60, 9.75", semi-floating rear axle. No 10.5" full floater and rear axle must have been changed to get the 3.73 ratio. Also makes sense that you think there might be other new parts around the axle swap.

 

[TWX]

I think this one has more pix or the baffles.

No limited slip or towing package and you are correct 4.10.

The tag says it is a 60s which is the Dana Super 60, 9.75", semi-floating rear axle. No 10.5" full floater and rear axle must have been changed to get the 3.73 ratio. Also makes sense that you think there might be other new parts around the axle swap.

I couldn't say when the axle was swapped as it was undoubtedly long before I bought the van, but I suspect that either something broke after the van was out of warranty and a shop tried to match with something that would satisfy whomever was having it fixed as being similar in age and wear to the original axle (albeit the wrong ratio and very likely a lighter axle, but the customer might not have understood) or else there was a desire to change gear ratio for long-distance driving (which the customer would have knew, even if perhaps not knowing about the lighter-duty nature). I do know that the previous owners worked on the suspension to make the van more comfortable for the Alcan Highway and Alaska.

Whomever swapped the axle did work to correct the speedometer, if my math is correct, the difference of only a mile or two an hour at 70MPH, it would be more like 6-7 MPH at that speed if the speedometer hadn't been corrected.

 

[booster]

According to the RPO numbers, that would be the same level of axle that was in it new and is the same version except for the ratio. As long as the tire size didn't change, the gear change would be easily flashed by a dealer in a couple of minutes.

 

[TWX]

According to the RPO numbers, that would be the same level of axle that was in it new and is the same version except for the ratio. As long as the tire size didn't change, the gear change would be easily flashed by a dealer in a couple of minutes.

What's odd is when I decode the VIN itself, I get information saying it should be a full-floater axle.

But this is all academic really. I'd like to put a proper full-floater axle into the van but I'm not in a particularly hurry to do so and on top of that, my original idea to significantly widen the rear track either by going dually or by modifying a truck dually axle to properly position SRW brakes on it but after going through the very, very windy and narrow switchbacks of CA-245 and CA-41 I'm now more inclined to not do that.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like how far inset the rear wheels are, but I had a couple moments on the windy roads where I caught the passenger's side rear tire on the curb or the soft shoulder just enough to know I'd done it. I'm now looking at wheels and I I've got a bead on a set of 16" aluminum wheels that came off of someone else's Express that hopefully will fit the way I want, but they haven't gotten back to me with the width/offset/PSI/max load.

 

[booster]

The wheels are where they are in any stock Express van that has the correct +28 offset wheels on it. They appear inset because Roadtrek widen the body by replacing the sides of the van behind the door with a fiberglass shell. If you move the wheels out with a different offset, which Roadtrek did do when the used aluminum wheels the track gets wider but it can have and effect on the front geometry and the wheel bearing loading, especially with a semi floating rear axle where it also puts more stress on the axle because it is weight bearing in a semi floater. On a full floater the axle sees only torque. The 210 certainly puts some extra weight overhanging the wheels, though, and that can cause rocking and directional stability. Good shocks and a big sway bar in the rear are essential, IMO, and bigger tires will also help some I think. Keeping all the wheels and tires the same as each other so the track widths aren't different front to rear can help tracking on a road with grooved pavement compared to having a different track width in the rear will help prevent getting pushed offline by the grooves.

 

[TWX]

The wheels are where they are in any stock Express van that has the correct +28 offset wheels on it. They appear inset because Roadtrek widen the body by replacing the sides of the van behind the door with a fiberglass shell. If you move the wheels out with a different offset, which Roadtrek did do when the used aluminum wheels the track gets wider but it can have and effect on the front geometry and the wheel bearing loading, especially with a semi floating rear axle where it also puts more stress on the axle because it is weight bearing in a semi floater. On a full floater the axle sees only torque. The 210 certainly puts some extra weight overhanging the wheels, though, and that can cause rocking and directional stability. Good shocks and a big sway bar in the rear are essential, IMO, and bigger tires will also help some I think. Keeping all the wheels and tires the same as each other so the track widths aren't different front to rear can help tracking on a road with grooved pavement compared to having a different track width in the rear will help prevent getting pushed offline by the grooves.

Oh, I know. I've been playing with wheel offsets for 25 years, and I'm well acquainted with the nature of stresses on wheel bearings.

I'm hoping that these wheels I'm looking at are much wider than the stock 6.5" wide wheels, but not as crazy-offset as those 17x10s that I found at a thrift store some weeks back.

 

[youngnretired]

Just to comment on the idea of putting oil/trans coolers in place of baffles adjacent to the headlights, i personally wouldn't place them there. There may be some natural airflow thru that area, but likely not enough. You'll want any additional external cooler out in front of the AC condenser where it will get maximum airflow thru the cooler both going down the road and sitting at a stoplight.

 

[Bangorbob]

BTW, the bolt missing from the crossmember is because someone forgot to re install after some battery work. I found my bar up by the windshield. I didn't do it, the PO hard someone work on the RV and they forgot.

 

[TWX]

Just to comment on the idea of putting oil/trans coolers in place of baffles adjacent to the headlights, i personally wouldn't place them there. There may be some natural airflow thru that area, but likely not enough. You'll want any additional external cooler out in front of the AC condenser where it will get maximum airflow thru the cooler both going down the road and sitting at a stoplight.

I might see if I can find a cheap airflow monitor tool to run tests in a few places.

 

[Wheelhorseman]

Hi am from Minnesota and just got back from Colorado going up and down many steep mountains. I was all the way to Durango and back. I have a 2008 Chevy 210 P and I didn’t do anything on the front end my van is stock with the original radiator no trans cooler other than what’s in the radiator. I didn’t modify any Transmission shift points. Everything is completely stock. There’s already too much heat in my opinion flowing through the radiator and the air conditioner so I didn’t want to introduce any more heat on the front end so I left the transmission go into the radiator but on the return line before it gets back to the Transmission I cut the line and spliced in a aftermarket cooler. The cooler has its own fan and its own in-line thermostat so when it gets hot enough it’ll kick on and when it cools off enough, it will shut itself off. I also installed the B&M transmission temp gauge on the van in line to monitor what was going on and on my longest steepest climb in Colorado pulling a Goldwing with our van loaded down quite heavy to begin with my trans temp never got above 210 most of the time it was at 160° cruising down the road. I installed this aftermarket cooler underneath the van pretty much under the driver seat where there is kind of a open area now I have absolutely zero worries going up and down steep mountains

 

[TWX]

@Wheelhorseman Any pictures of what you did would be welcomed in the thread. Any idea what the thermostat in your cooling system is rated to open at?

I was debating if it made more sense to put the transmission cooler before the radiator or after the radiator. Biggest reason to put it before, try to dump excess heat and then let the engine cooling system determine the proper temperature of the transmission, possibly raising the temperature if it's too low. Alternately afterward would still dump heat into the cooling system through the radiator an then dump further excess heat after, but in particularly cold environments might result in over-cooling.

Granted, I'm in the desert southwest so over-cooling is not likely to be a concern if I remain regional or only travel to cooler climates in the warmer months.

 

[Wheelhorseman]

Pretty sure my van has a 195° thermostat in it judging by the temperature gauge as far as the aftermarket cooler I put on that is an in-line heat activated switch it kicks the fan on at 180 and shuts it off at 160 Fahrenheit. I can certainly get you more pictures. I am out of state right now but can get some early next week when I get back.

 

[TWX]

The more the merrier!

 

[booster]

There has been a lot of discussion on the "best" cooler location and there are mostly just preferences.

Almost all say ahead of the radiator as you are trying to cool the transmission with it and you have a lot bigger radiator that will still get a lot of free air.

The most discussion comes on the question of through the cooler first/radiator second or radiator first/cooler second.

Cooler first will let the radiator reheat the trans fluid if it is overcooled but not a lot as the cold side of the radiator is also probably running somewhat cool.

Radiator first will give you the cooler transmission fluid in most cases but also gives more chance of overcooling.

We now have neither as we don't go through the radiator, so overcooling could be an issue if we didn't have a transmission bypass thermostat to hold the trans fluid temp up to non overcooled range.