Roadtrek 210 Blowouts, Load Limits, and Tire Upgrades

[booster]

Yep, Sensfan, true, but in reality it is a bit misleading as I mentioned switching to a specific pad style that is very likely different than what is causing the issue and not just "change the pads and rotors". That is the way it is on the internet, and I am very skeptical of what is said also, especially when it contradicts what lots of shops still say so not a big deal.

It is good you can handle it with style of driving, but beware the odd place where it might not. You also have the 6 speed that gives you a lower second gear, I think, so more braking than the 4 speed.

I go more towards the pants and suspenders type solutions so want to have a lot of cushion for the unexpected things. We did hit what I think was the hardest to keep the brakes cool descent that we ever were on. We could smell the brakes at the bottom but still no issue braking or judder.

Smoky Mountain parkway east to west was where. Bad combination of steep descent, lots of sharp curves, and with a fairly long distance between the curves. The distance between the curves lets you get going fast enough to need considerable braking to make the curve unless you go very slowly on the straight section, which is hard to do and really irritates the 50 vehicles lined up behind you as you go very slowly. At the bottom we saw quite a few vehicles with smoking brakes at the visitor center that is right at the bottom.

 

[Sensfan-ClassB]

Yep, Sensfan, true, but in reality it is a bit misleading as I mentioned switching to a specific pad style that is very likely different than what is causing the issue and not just "change the pads and rotors". That is the way it is on the internet, and I am very skeptical of what is said also, especially when it contradicts what lots of shops still say so not a big deal.

It is good you can handle it with style of driving, but beware the odd place where it might not. You also have the 6 speed that gives you a lower second gear, I think, so more braking than the 4 speed.

I go more towards the pants and suspenders type solutions so want to have a lot of cushion for the unexpected things. We did hit what I think was the hardest to keep the brakes cool descent that we ever were on. We could smell the brakes at the bottom but still no issue braking or judder.

Smoky Mountain parkway east to west was where. Bad combination of steep descent, lots of sharp curves, and with a fairly long distance between the curves. The distance between the curves lets you get going fast enough to need considerable braking to make the curve unless you go very slowly on the straight section, which is hard to do and really irritates the 50 vehicles lined up behind you as you go very slowly. At the bottom we saw quite a few vehicles with smoking brakes at the visitor center that is right at the bottom.

You’re bang on in regard to my 6 speed giving me a lower second gear. Per your cautionary, my personal rule is “slow & easy” navigation through all vertical descent profiles, especially the unknown ones.
IMO, all of your posts on this subject clearly explain the situation from your perspective and have included successful mitigation actions taken by yourself on your own Roadtrek.
FWIW, my previous post was less about describing how I dealt with my own rotor wobble experiences and more of a callout of what I perceived to be a borderline disrespectful comment by a rookie member of this Forum

 

[booster]

Slow and easy is a good thing and certainly works most of the time and probably more of the time with the 6 speed compared to the 4 speed. I don't know how the programming on the six speed is setup but it probably similar to the 4 speed in relation to low gear. There is no way on a four speed to keep the transmission in low gear and not shift to second gear. Most wicked going up very steep grades with curves because every time you let off a bit to get around a corner it shifts to second and you may stall out until you stop so it goes back in low. Same can happen downhill where the throttle is always closed. I can see why they do it, though, as low would put a big backward load on the equipment and be really easy to over rev it. That is why I mentioned the big advantage of the six speed lower second gear.

Going way back on the forum to where I first mentioned the idea of the brake pad transfer layer on the rotor being the issue, the topic has been on of the ones that elicit the most forceful disagreement from people as it goes contrary to everything we all learned over our, way to many, years. Pulsing brakes are warped rotors essentially all the time was the blanket statement and mostly true because everything was on organic or semi metallic pads that transferred material well. Many shops to this day still say the same thing, so users have good reason to question an on the surface, hard to grasp, other cause. The first time I heard about it was from a tech who worked in the testing lab at Hawk brakes and I certainly was skeptical. He gave test numbers from testing that showed clearly what was going on, from stopping power and potential pulsing. Hawk actually has a brake dynamometer to measure brake performance and stopping power. I spent weeks reading tech papers and digging for more data, including calling essentially all the high performance and top mainstream brake pad manufacturers, usually requesting to talk to the engineers or testing personnel. Once I was satisfied it had merit, I tried it with the Hawk pads and rotors and the rest is history as it worked extremely well.

So some overreaction is probably expected on the topic sometimes, especially when people have just spent good money on complete brake job per the shop or OEM recommendations and still have the juddering issue. I know that would really pi$$ me off if it had happened to me, but I got lucky and dodged that bullet.

 

[teslasmuse]

A ton of Chevy RTs have dealt and/or are dealing with brake shudder; some a lot less than others. I am one of the fortunate owners with less. It took me the first couple of years to figure out that I could effectively manage mine by keeping the 2011 6-peed transmission in manual mode (not towing). My guess is that this has reduced my downhill wobble situations by more than 80%. Three times in 5000 miles over three months also places you in the fortunate owner group. C’mon man, being skeptical of others' suggestions on how to deal with the wobble, without providing an alternative suggestion, has no real value.

the comment above yours makes more sense to me than just replacing parts trying to run down the issue, so I think I will listen to them first and keep my skepticism, but thanks for the suggestion about using manual, how does that work, exactly? do I have to shift for the transmission like when I had cars with tiptronics?

 

[teslasmuse]

Suggestion if the van has continued shudder despite rotor/pad replacement.

Remove the rotors and check the runout at the hub with a dial indicator. No amount of new rotors and pads will fix a hub that has over-spec runout.

thank you for chiming in, I will ask them to check when I take it in for the next rotation

 

[Sensfan-ClassB]

the comment above yours makes more sense to me than just replacing parts trying to run down the issue, so I think I will listen to them first and keep my skepticism, but thanks for the suggestion about using manual, how does that work, exactly? do I have to shift for the transmission like when I had cars with tiptronics?.

Each vehicle braking system has unique characteristics; therefore, the engine braking method that works for me may not work for you. There are other factors that also need to be considered before determining if engine braking would be a safe choice for you. It is a very complex operation; RPM and engine transmission temperatures need to be constantly monitored. It takes a lot of time and practice to become proficient. IMHO, some drivers do not have sufficient skills to do it safely.
I respectfully suggest that you do not make any decision until after you have found someone, for example a qualified chevy truck mechanic, who could give you the required knowledge, demonstration, and training to allow you to make an informed decision.

 

[teslasmuse]

Each vehicle braking system has unique characteristics; therefore, the engine braking method that works for me may not work for you. There are other factors that also need to be considered before determining if engine braking would be a safe choice for you. It is a very complex operation; RPM and engine transmission temperatures need to be constantly monitored. It takes a lot of time and practice to become proficient. IMHO, some drivers do not have sufficient skills to do it safely.
I respectfully suggest that you do not make any decision until after you have found someone, for example a qualified chevy truck mechanic, who could give you the required knowledge, demonstration, and training to allow you to make an informed decision.

I took it back to a shop I trust to check the runout and they did a thorough diagnosis and it needs a new front pitman and idler arm and I realized the +/- on the shifter arm is likely what I'd use during manual, it has an electronic tac so I can watch the RPMs, but I also drove it 120 miles roundtrip to the mountains on Saturday and didn't touch the brakes on the hills and didn't get the shudder, so I can pretty much know when it's going to occur now in order to avoid it while I come up with the $1250 to do the labor. I'll update this post if that takes care of it once and for all, the rotors appear not to be warped according to 3 shops

 

[Sensfan-ClassB]

I took it back to a shop I trust to check the runout and they did a thorough diagnosis and it needs a new front pitman and idler arm and I realized the +/- on the shifter arm is likely what I'd use during manual, it has an electronic tac so I can watch the RPMs, but I also drove it 120 miles roundtrip to the mountains on Saturday and didn't touch the brakes on the hills and didn't get the shudder, so I can pretty much know when it's going to occur now in order to avoid it while I come up with the $1250 to do the labor. I'll update this post if that takes care of it once and for all, the rotors appear not to be warped according to 3 shops

FYI … I use my scanguage to monitor transmission temperature.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

Last fall, before putting our camper up for the winter, I replaced the tires with Nexen Roadians. A few weeks ago I spotted this thread and noted a post warning against Nexen's. Due to lousy spring weather, we left on a two night stay at a state park, about 15 miles down the interstate one of the rears blew out the sidewall, a total of 106 miles on the tires.

Not trusting the others I had my shop replace them all, which he did at not cost to me. The Nexen had the proper load ratings and the tire pressure was up to spec.

 

[Johnnyfry]

The problem is that they most likely replaced the pads with ceramic like the OEM were. They need to be heavy duty semi metallic pads to fix the issue. If you get a chance do a search on here for the topic or let me know and I will dig some up. We were one on the first ones to fix the issues over 10 years ago and have had zero judder since and we do not take it easy all the time.

Hopefully, some others that have done the same are around and chime in.

When my 2008C210P developed the “Chevy Shimmy” I took it to the local Chevrolet Truck dealership and took the Tech for a ride. Hard braking revealed the shimmy right away. The tech recommended ‘Ambulance spec” rotors and pads. They were about 50% more than the normal OEM spec. In nearly 80,000 miles since I have had no further occurrence of the issue despite quite a lot of mountain driving, including West Virginia with a lot of 12% grades.

 

[booster]

When my 2008C210P developed the “Chevy Shimmy” I took it to the local Chevrolet Truck dealership and took the Tech for a ride. Hard braking revealed the shimmy right away. The tech recommended ‘Ambulance spec” rotors and pads. They were about 50% more than the normal OEM spec. In nearly 80,000 miles since I have had no further occurrence of the issue despite quite a lot of mountain driving, including West Virginia with a lot of 12% grades.

Thanks, Johnnyfry, another of the same solution to the shimmy problem and very encouraging that a Chevy dealer had the correct solution available. Early on, when the semi metallic pad solution was just getting proven, most of the Chevy dealers we heard about refused to put in anything but OEM ceramic pads and the problems did not go away.

Semi metallic pads are often listed as "heavy duty", "extreme duty", "police", or "ambulance" like your's are. Pretty much all the same in high quality pads, though.

 

[TWX]

For what it's worth, we just did 1800 miles with Michelin Agilis CrossClimate 2 size LT245/75R16, Load Range E/120, out of the desert in Phoenix, up the eastern side of the Sierra Nevadas and down the western side before going back home to Phoenix, and the tires didn't give us any problems. These are admittedly brand new tires. I was not nice to the tires, the switchbacks and incredibly windy mountain roads with steep grades were driven as aggressively as the van could handle.

They might end up replaced before they're worn out anyway, the wheels on my van are in poorer condition than I am comfortable with based on how they hold on to grit and grime inside where the hub portion is attached to the rim portion, but we'll see.