RV Suspension Lift and 4x4 Conversion Kits

[Stevemo-ClassB]

There have been some "recent" developments in RV Lift Kits and 4x4 Conversion Kits so I thought I would put together a bit of an infomercial. It is no longer necessary to piece together random truck parts to lift your van.

Boulder has Chevy kits and you will see some Roadtrek 4x4 conversions in their gallery. I haven't found much information on them but here they are:
Home

U-Joint Offroad has Ford Econoline 4x4 stuff:
4x4 Van Conversion kits

Weldtech has Ford and Chevrolet. They have several videos of RV lifts including Roadtreks and 4x4 conversions of Chevy vans. They also have lifts for Ford Econolines.
Ford: FORD – WeldTec Designs
Chevrolet: https://weldtecdesigns.com/product-...s-van-suspension/ref/33/?campaign=SteveRivett

I have a 2004 Roadtrek Popular 190 which sits pretty low. Roadtrek used to sell rear leaf spacers as a part solution but I'm not looking pretty seriously at a Weldtech kit to do all 4 corners. You can start at a 2" lift or go up to 5" plus the height of taller tires. I have installed a rear Hellwig 7635 swaybar on my RV which has helped the ride a lot but obviously no gains in ride height.
http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...tor-relocation-and-sway-bar-install-9787.html

I assume there is somebody out there doing newer Fords, Nissans, and Mercedes. Feel free to add to the thread if you have more info!

 

[booster]

There have been some "recent" developments in RV Lift Kits and 4x4 Conversion Kits so I thought I would put together a bit of an infomercial. It is no longer necessary to piece together random truck parts to lift your van.

Boulder has Chevy kits and you will see some Roadtrek 4x4 conversions in their gallery. I haven't found much information on them but here they are:
Home

U-Joint Offroad has Ford Econoline 4x4 stuff:
4x4 Van Conversion kits

Weldtech has Ford and Chevrolet. They have several videos of RV lifts including Roadtreks and 4x4 conversions of Chevy vans. They also have lifts for Ford Econolines.
Ford: FORD – WeldTec Designs
Chevrolet: https://weldtecdesigns.com/product-...s-van-suspension/ref/33/?campaign=SteveRivett

I have a 2004 Roadtrek Popular 190 which sits pretty low. Roadtrek used to sell rear leaf spacers as a part solution but I'm not looking pretty seriously at a Weldtech kit to do all 4 corners. You can start at a 2" lift or go up to 5" plus the height of taller tires. I have installed a rear Hellwig 7635 swaybar on my RV which has helped the ride a lot but obviously no gains in ride height.
http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...tor-relocation-and-sway-bar-install-9787.html

I assume there is somebody out there doing newer Fords, Nissans, and Mercedes. Feel free to add to the thread if you have more info!

There are a lot of discussions on Chevy lifts on this forum, both spring and knuckle style, plus rears in new or modified springs and air bags. There was recently a poster, Hondo that did nearly all it and then did a full 4WD at a vendor he had found.



My opinion is knuckle lifts don't normally work out well for folks, rear spacers are a bad choice as the springs need to get off the overload leaf and spacer don't do that. A full specific designed 4WD conversion like Hondo does looked the best for getting 4WD to me.


We have had a front spring, rear airbag, lift of about 2" in our Chevy for nearly a decade with great results. The 2" on the Chevy puts it right back at factory spec ride height for a 3500 van so the suspension and steering work better. If you go much higher with springs you start to get handling issues like bump steer and limits on how much caster you can get.

 

[n3ix]

Off Highway Van in SLC has a Promaster lift kit that people seem to really like.

 

[booster]

I fear some of these videos are turning into pure manufacturer advertisements.


Stevemo's earlier posts, also all video based, could be construed as informative even though it also appears to be only posted to increase video view hits on videos.


Personally, if someone can get paid for this kind of stuff in some manor, as is probably on these posts, I don't have a big problem with it in many cases unless it is undeclared and like the last videos pure advertisements.


I understand we also get videos of new models, features, etc regularly from many posters and they have been no issue as they appear to be targeted toward information for board in general often by long term members. That does not appear to be the case here.


Personally, as long as manufacturers, dealers, and "ambassadors" are up front about who they are there is a lot of benefit to getting their information on here.

 

[Stevemo-ClassB]

I fear some of these videos are turning into pure manufacturer advertisements.

Stevemo's earlier posts, also all video based, could be construed as informative even though it also appears to be only posted to increase video view hits on videos.

Personally, if someone can get paid for this kind of stuff in some manor, as is probably on these posts, I don't have a big problem with it in many cases unless it is undeclared and like the last videos pure advertisements.

I understand we also get videos of new models, features, etc regularly from many posters and they have been no issue as they appear to be targeted toward information for board in general often by long term members. That does not appear to be the case here.

Personally, as long as manufacturers, dealers, and "ambassadors" are up front about who they are there is a lot of benefit to getting their information on here.

I am a member at a forum called Expedition Portal and I have been on there and here researching lift kits and 4x4 kits for vans. I own a 2004 Roadtrek Popular 190 and as mentioned I intend to install a lift on my van. I am up in the air between Boulder and Weldtech which are applicable to my van so I'm hoping to drum up some talk about them. I am kind of leaning towards Boulder because they offer upper control arms. I included the other manufacturers I was aware of because as you can see in the photos they do Class B RVs.
The "infomercial" part I eluded to is for the two Weldtech links which have an affiliate component to them if you look at the address. If you go to Weldtech's YouTube channel you can learn more about that there as they have a video about it. I was trying to be transparent about this without focusing on it as that was not my motivation for the post.
I do not have anything to do with any of the YouTube videos. I just picked them because they had RVs in them. That was my main motivation.

In the future I am planning on posting quite a few Chevrolet based Roadtrek maintenance videos that I have parts for. If you look at my videos (they have my name on them but were not posted in this thread) you will see they are Creative Commons and I do not make any money from people watching them. You will find some Amazon affiliate links in the text below the videos where I provide details on the parts and tools I used. To date, I have made a whopping $3.37 but Amazon won't pay out until I hit $10. I have probably spent $10k in parts and tools so it's a long way out of that hole.

Lastly, you will find a link on my YouTube website to The Archive where I scan and upload old manuals (some are PDFs I find on the internet like when I tried to save the Roadtrek website which was in jeopardy.) Anyway, I've put over a grand into that too buying catalogs and a scanner but there is no way to make money from it...I just do it for personal interest and want to fill a knowledge gap on the Internet. https://archive.org/details/@steverontario

Cheers, Steve

 

[VanFan]

Off Highway Van in SLC has a Promaster lift kit that people seem to really like.

We just installed their kit two months ago, and increased our tire size a little more than 2" in diameter. Had to grind off some flanges in the wheel wells to make the tires fit, but that worked out fine. Between the kit and the tires, we got about 3.75" of lift front and back. Most importantly, the knuckle lift in back actually raises the axle (it's not just a cosmetic body lift). So we have over 10" of axle clearance now, which is wonderful compared to before. We also upgraded the rear struts for improved loaded performance. With a professional alignment, handling is fine. Perhaps a little more susceptible to cross winds, but absolutely worth it for the peace of mind when we boondock in BLM or NFS type areas (which we just finished doing for three weeks in Utah and Arizona).

 

[Stevemo-ClassB]

Over the last two weekends I installed a Weldtec lift kit on my 2004 Chevy Express 3500. I decided it was best not to subject the Roadtrek to locations where 4x4 was required. I've only driven the van about 20 minutes since doing the work so no comment positive or negative regarding the outcome. I am going to get an alignment done and put on some miles before getting into a ride report.

 

[themexicandoctor]

There have been some "recent" developments in RV Lift Kits and 4x4 Conversion Kits so I thought I would put together a bit of an infomercial. It is no longer necessary to piece together random truck parts to lift your van.

Boulder has Chevy kits and you will see some Roadtrek 4x4 conversions in their gallery. I haven't found much information on them but here they are:
Home

U-Joint Offroad has Ford Econoline 4x4 stuff:
4x4 Van Conversion kits

Weldtech has Ford and Chevrolet. They have several videos of RV lifts including Roadtreks and 4x4 conversions of Chevy vans. They also have lifts for Ford Econolines.
Ford: FORD – WeldTec Designs
Chevrolet: https://weldtecdesigns.com/product-...s-van-suspension/ref/33/?campaign=SteveRivett

I have a 2004 Roadtrek Popular 190 which sits pretty low. Roadtrek used to sell rear leaf spacers as a part solution but I'm not looking pretty seriously at a Weldtech kit to do all 4 corners. You can start at a 2" lift or go up to 5" plus the height of taller tires. I have installed a rear Hellwig 7635 swaybar on my RV which has helped the ride a lot but obviously no gains in ride height.
http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...tor-relocation-and-sway-bar-install-9787.html

I assume there is somebody out there doing newer Fords, Nissans, and Mercedes. Feel free to add to the thread if you have more info!

Have a 2004/5 Roadtrek 190 Versatile.

I don't have 4 wheel drive or any interest in it - too much stuff inside, Roadtreks make enough noise already.

My journey to insanity & back, every photo & answer is here;
https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f8/themexicandoctors-roadtrek-upgrades-7607.html

I RECOMMEND; WELDTEC with a 3 or 5inch lift kit, SUPERSPRINGS for some of their products & BILL ERB at VALLEY SPRINGS in that order if he can help you coil wise.



In 2013 I had Supersprings try a Spacer up front (didn't work), & I had them give me Supersprings on the rear, for a time driving around like a Stinkbug. But I raised the rear 2 3/4 inches. But I did get their Sumosprings for the rear (different product), & their Bump Stops which I just replaced after 5 years.

No matter whether you use Weldtec or not, Supersprings will have an accessory product you can benefit from & these guys are such a pleasure to work with.

GERRY LAMBRETTI of Supersprings in Santa Barbara, CA (800) 898-0705

SuperSprings International | Journey Better




Then after having my truck dismantled by 6 different 4x4 shops who found themselves unable to do a workaround with the Chevy I drove 500 miles & worked with

BILL ERB at Valley Spring Works Dixon, CA. (707) 678-3944
https://www.yelp.com/biz/valley-spring-works-dixon

Who after reading through the 20 plus pages of a thread mostly authored by Booster & Photog called me & said "Get up here on Sunday morning & I will make two sets of Coils for you, your vehicle will sit perfectly. And they were perfect, I still have them on my rig - see the thread at the top. He said the first pair should take you up 2.74inches & they did.

I had him powder coat my Supersprings in the rear RED & the new coils RED to represent the blood, sweat & tears getting the Roadtrek to this point.

The guy is a Coil Genius, some people here didn't have such a positive experience with his product but I dod & found him to be generous, committed to solving your problems & very smart.

All the US Car & Truck vehicle manufacturers when they make a Lemon suspension wise, have units flatbedded this Location, he discovers the work around & then the manufacturers make wholesale modifications to his specs, in factory.

He does all the design & testing for the Power Company Rigs & other heavy vehicle needs, etc.



Then I read about Weldtec & wanted more.

WELDTEC DESIGNS & JEREMY - (619) 596-9831
886 Gable Way, El Cajon, CA 92020
www.weldtecdesigns.com

Was going to get the 2inch lift but when I got down there discovered their 2in coil over wouldn't work so I went with 3 inch spindles up front, 2 inch spacer in back & 4 new Bilstein Shocks. Plus I ended up buying a set of 18inch 275/65R18 Method Rims & with Goodyear Wrangler AT/S Tires. I had just installed 4 new Yokohama Geolander tires*** & had the alignment done at install - when I went to have the Alignment done a week later after the Weldtec install the guy wouldn't charge me - said I didn't need it.

Unbelievable performance, lift & ride from the first minute!

Weldtec was the the finished product, havent had an issue since but did break an Idler Arm a year later but Jeremy got on the phone immediately & walked me through the repair.

Just this year the right rear (passenger) Bilstein Shocks broke the cheap Chevy underbody & a friend fabricated & welded a perfect repair.

The idler arm failure wasn't caused by Weldtec nor were they responsible for the soft Chevrolet underbody failing. The shock was probably me having the passenger side roll over the top of sidewalks in parking lots, etc - my driving, not Weldtec.

Just the other day I called Jeremy & said I want to go 5inches but it would mean adding the coil over spacer, upgrading to Fox Shocks all around (my Bilsteins are too short), adding a one inch higher block in back & its a $1000 or so upgrade in parts & labour - maybe if I get another Stimulus Check. I do know he has reserved a brand new set of Chevy Coil Springs from a unit he modified to replace the Bill Erb oversized springs.

*** the only bummer & it has nothing to do with Jeremy or his present employees is that I left my Roadtrek Rims & new Tires down there because Beau the Head Installer at the time*, promised me that if I buy the Method Rims he could sell my tires with Rims for $400 plus in a week on Offer Up.

The Fool sold the tires & rims & pocketed the money - I was down there a year later & Beau & that crew had been fired.

Below is a picture of the repaired shock issue (had to buy a new shock also).

 

[themexicandoctor]

Here is a photo of the new Bump Stop from Supersprings along with a 5 year old one & a photo of the Sumo Springs.

 

[bigcabus]

Update on Ride Quality?

Hi Stevemo, thank you for the wonderful step by step video process.
Have you had enough to to provide a ride quality update?
Also, do the the Fox Shocks vs the Bilsteins make any improvement on ride quality (Comfort over bumps) and do you get crosswind handling issues?

Final question: If you had a choice to go back. Would you have chosen WeldTec again over Boulder?

Kindest regards,

-Hapi.

Over the last two weekends I installed a Weldtec lift kit on my 2004 Chevy Express 3500. I decided it was best not to subject the Roadtrek to locations where 4x4 was required. I've only driven the van about 20 minutes since doing the work so no comment positive or negative regarding the outcome. I am going to get an alignment done and put on some miles before getting into a ride report.

 

[Stevemo-ClassB]

I've driven the van with the lift about 12 hours now so I'm starting to get used to it. I will be doing a video discussing it but I need to do some more figuring out so it probably won't be out for a couple more weeks. This is with the 5" lift on the front and 4" blocks so things will be different if you get a different front lift and/or different rear springs/overloads.
To answer your question, the Fox shocks are softer than the Bilsteins but the Bilsteins on my van were actually supposed to be on a 1997 to 2002 Chevy Class C motorhome and not my 2004 Class B. I don't know why it had these shocks on it but I like a firm suspension so I was fine with them. In short, if you drive at 60 MPH you'll probably love the Fox shocks as-shipped. Crosswinds are relative to where you are and what you are used to. I haven't been in a situation where they were a problem but I'm not located in a place with serious crosswinds.
In my opinion the Fox shocks are too soft for how I drive on the highway but keep in mind the front seat is 5 to 6" further off the ground than it used to be. The Fox shocks are better than the Billsteins at soaking up bumps on the surface streets and 70 mph is a reasonable compromise of plush vs. firm. At 75 to 80 mph with 50 PSI front and 80 PSI rear tire pressures loaded with water large bumps are something you want to watch out for. There is more suspension response than I like so I put 2 hands on the wheel just in case but I haven't had anything bad happen (keep in mind that I have a rear sway bar which most people don't have). Changing the rear springs would have provided no benefit to me as I will be on the highway 99% of the time.
Would I use Weldtec again? Yes. The van was aligned without problem and the parts were good and fit fine. I don't like the front brake hose arrangement and will deal with that eventually. I bought a set of hoses so I can measure them and get braided lines made. Time will tell about the shocks as I'm still analyzing them and have not talked to Weldtec about them either.
I have no opinion on Boulder as I don't know of anybody who has used their product and they don't have much of a website. I suspect they include the UCAs to help with alignment and/or provide better ball joint angles but there were no alignment problems with the Weldtec kit.

 

[themexicandoctor]

We have the same rig but I went with the 3inch Spindle lift, the 2 inch blocks in the rear & Bilsteins plus the Coils & an extra leaf from Bill Erb & the Supersprings from Supersprings - very happy with my ride - I concur, the Bilsteins plus the extra Leaf are a harder ride but there isn't much travel - no more than 2 inches in the rear according to a couple of people who looked at it after one of the rear shocks went through the Chevy subfloor.

Was thinking 2 more inches but its a big expense with not a big reward. Sure beats stock!

The ride instantly improved.

Weldtec are a joy to work with.

 

[Stevemo-ClassB]

We have the same rig but I went with the 3inch Spindle lift, the 2 inch blocks in the rear & Bilsteins plus the Coils & an extra leaf from Bill Erb & the Supersprings from Supersprings - very happy with my ride - I concur, the Bilsteins plus the extra Leaf are a harder ride but there isn't much travel - no more than 2 inches in the rear according to a couple of people who looked at it after one of the rear shocks went through the Chevy subfloor.

Was thinking 2 more inches but its a big expense with not a big reward. Sure beats stock!

The ride instantly improved.

Weldtec are a joy to work with.

The front supersprings are interesting. How are they wearing? The OEM foam bump stops seem to be short lived.
2" is probably enough in most cases, Roadtrek actually used to sell the 1-1/2" rear blocks as an upgrade.

 

[themexicandoctor]

The front supersprings are interesting. How are they wearing? The OEM foam bump stops seem to be short lived.
2" is probably enough in most cases, Roadtrek actually used to sell the 1-1/2" rear blocks as an upgrade.

I think you are referring to the front bump stops, not the coils correct?

Those Bump Stops work great, my Driver's Side was a little torn up but not the other.

Inexpensive but effective.

 

[bigcabus]

The Ride quality follow up

I've driven the van with the lift about 12 hours now so I'm starting to get used to it. I will be doing a video discussing it but I need to do some more figuring out so it probably won't be out for a couple more weeks. This is with the 5" lift on the front and 4" blocks so things will be different if you get a different front lift and/or different rear springs/overloads.
To answer your question, the Fox shocks are softer than the Bilsteins but the Bilsteins on my van were actually supposed to be on a 1997 to 2002 Chevy Class C motorhome and not my 2004 Class B. I don't know why it had these shocks on it but I like a firm suspension so I was fine with them. In short, if you drive at 60 MPH you'll probably love the Fox shocks as-shipped. Crosswinds are relative to where you are and what you are used to. I haven't been in a situation where they were a problem but I'm not located in a place with serious crosswinds.
In my opinion the Fox shocks are too soft for how I drive on the highway but keep in mind the front seat is 5 to 6" further off the ground than it used to be. The Fox shocks are better than the Billsteins at soaking up bumps on the surface streets and 70 mph is a reasonable compromise of plush vs. firm. At 75 to 80 mph with 50 PSI front and 80 PSI rear tire pressures loaded with water large bumps are something you want to watch out for. There is more suspension response than I like so I put 2 hands on the wheel just in case but I haven't had anything bad happen (keep in mind that I have a rear sway bar which most people don't have). Changing the rear springs would have provided no benefit to me as I will be on the highway 99% of the time.
Would I use Weldtec again? Yes. The van was aligned without problem and the parts were good and fit fine. I don't like the front brake hose arrangement and will deal with that eventually. I bought a set of hoses so I can measure them and get braided lines made. Time will tell about the shocks as I'm still analyzing them and have not talked to Weldtec about them either.
I have no opinion on Boulder as I don't know of anybody who has used their product and they don't have much of a website. I suspect they include the UCAs to help with alignment and/or provide better ball joint angles but there were no alignment problems with the Weldtec kit.

Stevemo, thank you kindly for the quick response on initial ride quality of the fox shocks. I am looking forward to your future review.

My current setup is a 2015 210P with the following upgrades.
Helwig 1.5" SwayBar in the Front,
1 1/4" Helwig swaybar in the rear,
Sumo Springs (Yellow) for both the front and rear.
2 Additional Leaf Springs added on each side.
Moog Coil springs up front.

So far I have went through 6 sets of Shocks from 2015 to 2020 (present):

OEM -> Bilsteins -> Koni FSD -> FoxShocks -> Koni FSD again due to the 1st set leaking and received replacements under warranty. Blew the Koni FSDs again (leaked) - Finally with the Bilsteins again. Had placed an order for RoadKing Shocks for the rear after I blew the Koni FSDs a second time but they never shipped the RoadKing shocks and stuck with the Bilsteins.

Out of all the shocks (minus RoadKing) the Bilsteins seem to provide the best for handling. The Koni FSDs are the most comfortable but the crosswinds will blow me halfway into the next lane if you don't watch it.

 

[themexicandoctor]

BIGCABUS,

WOW!

Are you saying you that you ditched;

1. Ditched the OEM - Understandable

2. Added Bilsteins & then Koni FSD - why did you change to Koni?

3. Then Fox Shocks - they leaked.

4. Then back to Koni - why ditch the Fox shocks?

5. Those Konis blew & so back to Bilsteins. Which models?

 

[bigcabus]

themexicandoctor,
I changed to the Koni's looking for more comfort.
The Koni's were more comfortable but sacrificed handling and crosswind issues.

The FoxShocks did not leak. They were between the Bilsteins and Koni's in performance.
However, the handling was still an issue in crosswinds and I wanted to fix the crosswind issue.

The Koni FSD model numbers are: Koni FSD 8805 1051 for the rear and 8805 1049 for the front. (Koni' responded by advising my rig may be too heavy after their analysis of the returned shocks). I asked if they could revalve or custom valve the FSD, but was told they are not adjustable.

The Bilstein model numbers are: Bilstein 4600 HD (B6) Fronts 24-187435 and Rears 24-221948.

I called HendersonLineup in Oregan and spoke with one of their techs. They suggested that they maybe able to install a quad shock system using the Koni FSDs to see if they could improve my crosswind handling issues and also switch to the Michiellen XPS tires with stiffer sidewalls. I'm still thinking about it as the current environment and lockdowns are not too friendly for me to travel.

Hope this helps.
Kindest regars,
-Hapi

 

[rowiebowie]

My Koni FSD's are still good after two years and almost 25,000 miles on my Airstream Avenue (think 190P and you've got an idea of my model.)

They do ride well, control secondary motions, and side winds. But then, I was replacing worn out OEM shocks so anything would have been an improvement. I specifically ordered the FSD's because the were NOT gas-charged, thinking this would soften the initial impact of road imperfections. They were also the priciest out there and I decided to see if spending more money bought me anything.

When the Koni's arrived and I took them out of the box, I could easily compress and expand them. I was used to gas-charged shocks you could not budge and so I was sure I'd made a huge mistake and there was no way they could control a 9000+ lb van. But, they do a great job. I would go with them again, especially if Koni stands behind their warranty (I'll be checking for leaks).

Just my limited experience. Can't imagine changing shocks annually. Hope your set up lasts a lot longer this time.

 

[booster]

My Koni FSD's are still good after two years and almost 20,000 miles on my Airstream Avenue (think 190P and you've got an idea of my model.)

They do ride well, control secondary motions, and side winds. But then, I was replacing worn out OEM shocks so anything would have been an improvement. I specifically ordered the FSD's because the were NOT gas-charged, thinking this would soften the initial impact of road imperfections. They were also the priciest out there and I decided to see if spending more money bought me anything.

When the Koni's arrived and I took them out of the box, I could easily compress and expand them. I was used to gas-charged shocks you could not budge and so I was sure I'd made a huge mistake and there was no way they could control a 9000+ lb van. But, they do a great job. I would go with them again, especially if Koni stands behind their warranty.

Just my limited experience. Can't imagine changing shocks annually. Hope your set up lasts a lot longer this time.

Good shocks should last a long time, even on a heavy van. We hear of Bilisteins at over a decade all the time. Ours are approaching that now. I would expect the Koni FSD shocks to also last that long, as they certainly aren't low cost, or quality.


The gas pressure in shocks is normally there to prevent aeration of the oil under heavy work and temps, not to support the van or help on bumps directly. I have never found a shock, even the rear Bilsteins for our van which are the hardest to compress that I have had, that I couldn't compress with more than maybe 70# of force, so the don't support much weight at all compared to a 9K+ pound van, and impact forces are many, many times larger than static, so gas pressure gets trivial pretty quickly. I think a lot people associate high gas pressure with rougher ride because the gas pressure usually goes up with performance level of the shock so the shock is generally getting stiffer at the same time.

 

[themexicandoctor]

BigCabus,

Gotcha.

I always felt there was a big difference between the handling & weight of the 210 compared to the 190.

If I remember correctly, the the load capacity was reduced on the 210 compared to the 190?