Suggested high capacity alternator 04190P

[booster]

Got some data. Brought SOC down to 48%, left it with no load overnight, and did some testing this afternoon. Attached is a PDF with the data. Max alternator output was 150A, rapidly tapering down. First test was 12:40 to 1:20, then our dog had a vet appointment, so I stopped. Restarted later in the afternoon. Hopefully this data makes sense - I'm not sure what's up with the total alternator Amps vs House Amps...

The Charge# vs AH required to 100% ("AH" on the trimetric) #s seem to pencil out right with the 375AH AGMs. In other words, the trimetric seems to be calculating the %Charge correctly.

The alternator is not putting out the juice I expected, even with 50%
charge to start.

Might see if we can move the last portion of this thread over to my first one: https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f23/suggested-high-capacity-alternator-04190p-11671.html.

Appreciate any and all feedback!

That information tells us a lot. The biggest thing is that your batteries are not anywhere near full. You returned amp hours to what you thought was full, but it wasn't. Did the trimetric fully charged lamp (I think it has one) come on?


To be totally full you would need to be at 14.4v and under about 2 amps, but most systems can't go to that detail. You are at 13.9 or so and just under 50 amps so you are probably at only 75% full.


You need to get your voltage up and the absorption time longer. Once you get to the right voltage you will need to go to 110-120% amp hours returned to be back at where you started the discharge because of charge efficiency. Right now by charging back only 100% amp hours, you are getting less full on every recharge cycle.


You will likely need a remote regulator to be able to get much better overall, but a higher setpoint internal regulator would help some, but if you have two alternators you have to buy two, but the external like a Balmare can run two by itself.

 

[rauscs]

Hey booster - thanks for the help.

My test didn't go all the way to 100%, I stopped it early because I thought the data would meet our needs for troubleshooting. I finished at "AH to 100% 98, Charge 73%", which pencils out as far as I can tell.

I'm not expecting the alternator to get me to 100%, but are looking for quicker charging up to 85% or so, per a previous conversion. I've got 300W of solar, which does a good job getting to 100% - with the help of the Trimetric SC controller.

Looks like I've got an external regulator in my future. Can anybody suggest the best unit and vendor for this setup? Someone who can help me with the configuration?
I can get a different alternator if that helps.

 

[rauscs]

Solar just finished getting the charge to 100%, with a flashing full light on the trimetric.

 

[booster]

Solar just finished getting the charge to 100%, with a flashing full light on the trimetric.

The solar will probably tell you how many amp hours it put into the batteries if it keeps history.


I know you listed them somewhere, but what are the charged volts and tail current (or return current) set at in the Trimetric?

 

[rauscs]

Say Jim,

Here are all the settings:
04C190P
House batteries; 3 lifeline group 31 GPL-31XT 125AH AGM
Coach battery “maintenance free”
Nations 240A 8327-240HP with international regulator
2/0 cable separator to house 125A? Breaker
BlueSea 7622 automatic separator
3 Renogy 100W solar panels
Trimetric monitor and solar controller
Trimetric settings from Bogart:
P1 - 14.3 V
P2 - 0.6%
P3 - 370 Ah
P7 - L3
P8 - set it 0.3 V higher than P15, but lower than the highest voltage your system will tolerate
P10 - 94%
P14 - 2.0 hrs
P15 - 15.3 V
P16 - 13.3 V
P20 - 7%
P21 - 0.5%
P22 - Off

I downloaded all of the Trimetric history that was available. I'm not sure I can make sense of it, but I am attaching it here in case it is useful. Doesn't differentiate between solar and non-solar that I can see. I ran the alternator tests on Tuesday, and no other charging but solar since.

Booster - Are you still saying that my charge %ages are not correct on the Trimetric?

P1 is "Charged" setpoint voltage." at 14.3, and I THINK the tail current is P2 * total AH in batteries, or .06% of 375 = 2.25A. Didn't see the term "tail current" or "return current: in their docs.

THANKS!

 

[Bangorbob]

Does the Sea 7622 AGR replace anything or is it an ad on?

 

[rauscs]

The ACR replaces the isolator. Allows House and Chassis batteries to be connected, both for house charging and chassis charging based on detected voltages in both.

 

[Bangorbob]

Can I safely assume the isolator is this:

 

[rauscs]

I believe so, but it is hard to tell by seeing only the side.

 

[booster]

Say Jim,

Here are all the settings:
04C190P
House batteries; 3 lifeline group 31 GPL-31XT 125AH AGM
Coach battery “maintenance free”
Nations 240A 8327-240HP with international regulator
2/0 cable separator to house 125A? Breaker
BlueSea 7622 automatic separator
3 Renogy 100W solar panels
Trimetric monitor and solar controller
Trimetric settings from Bogart:
P1 - 14.3 V
P2 - 0.6%
P3 - 370 Ah
P7 - L3
P8 - set it 0.3 V higher than P15, but lower than the highest voltage your system will tolerate
P10 - 94%
P14 - 2.0 hrs
P15 - 15.3 V
P16 - 13.3 V
P20 - 7%
P21 - 0.5%
P22 - Off

I downloaded all of the Trimetric history that was available. I'm not sure I can make sense of it, but I am attaching it here in case it is useful. Doesn't differentiate between solar and non-solar that I can see. I ran the alternator tests on Tuesday, and no other charging but solar since.

Booster - Are you still saying that my charge %ages are not correct on the Trimetric?

P1 is "Charged" setpoint voltage." at 14.3, and I THINK the tail current is P2 * total AH in batteries, or .06% of 375 = 2.25A. Didn't see the term "tail current" or "return current: in their docs.

THANKS!

No not saying they are wrong at all, as they are just fine. I thought I remembered they were OK, but wanted to be certain. This gives us enough information to make a guess what is going on. Some is good and some not quite as good, I think. From the amps you were running and voltages from the alternator, it was very obvious that you were not close to being full, most likely in the 70-80% SOC, so that would indicate that you could use some work there. Most likely a regulator change, probably to external, but maybe internal could get you by, so you can get closer to full. You don't need to get all the way in most cases because you have solar to top off. In your test, you probably had quite good sun and the solar had enough time to make up the shortfall left from the alternator charging. This, of course won't always happen because sun conditions can get very bad sometimes and yield very small amounts of charge.


I think the voltage drop to the coach should be investigated for wire size and connection resistance as it is quite high for only 53 amps. Getting that better would speed charging and do a better job of taking care of the Lifelines that like higher amperage/shorter charge time to prevent sulphation.


You are very close to have a good setup so not a lot of stuff to do to get there. It was just a long road to get the right information to see what is really going on with it in real life.

 

[rauscs]

Sounds like I need to change the regulator in order to improve things, true?

If so, do you have a regulator to suggest, and a vendor to help me with the configuration? Feel free to PM me if you would prefer.

 

[booster]

Sounds like I need to change the regulator in order to improve things, true?

If so, do you have a regulator to suggest, and a vendor to help me with the configuration? Feel free to PM me if you would prefer.

As I just mentioned in the other thread, the best current remote regulator is probably the Wakespeed which I will be testing soon. It is far more advanced than any other, per the literature, and should be able to do a very good job of charging AGM and probably lithium which I am working on determining how it could be best set for our test lithium bank. It is expensive and complex, however, and I haven't run across any users yet so is still a new product to me and most others.


Beyond Wakespeed, the choices are few, with Balmar being the most popular currently. I think Sterling still have some models, but not used much, I think. The Balmar can be set to get decent, not great charging but with many compromises.


Others have used a B to B charger to handle it and they normally with pull whatever the the alternator will give them and transform it to their output charging profile. There are members here doing that with internal regulated alternators I think, but most are on lithium and lower amperage.

 

[rauscs]

Not sure if I should start a new thread, but attached are my voltage losses between the alternator and the House battery switch;

I've been using circuit breakers like these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SHSSTGW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

But I don't like the drop in voltage across these - thinking I'll replace those with fuses. 300A sound right?

Cable from chassis to house is 2/0.

Suggestions?

 

[booster]

Not sure if I should start a new thread, but attached are my voltage losses between the alternator and the House battery switch;

I've been using circuit breakers like these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SHSSTGW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

But I don't like the drop in voltage across these - thinking I'll replace those with fuses. 300A sound right?

Cable from chassis to house is 2/0.

Suggestions?

Yep, some work to do. Cable or connections not good at .2 for only 66 amps when you will be pulling double that probably. I would replace the breakers with large format fuses if they are accessible. Good, reliable brerakers are not cheap when you get to bigger capacities and want low voltage drop.

 

[phantomjock]

Cable from chassis to house is 2/0.

Suggestions?

Seem to recall that losses (and loads) are throughout a circuit. Fuses, wire size, and connections. You mention 2/0 from chassis to house.

How solid/righteous (I know odd choice, but seems to fit) is the connection at the chassis? [You may have mentioned previously, I can't recall.]
Might need a quick scrub with a grinding wheel. Just a suggestion.

Cheers - Jim