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Old 07-27-2017, 08:25 PM   #241
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Who says I didn't go back to them. Did you see the time I posted these questions? They're not around late into the night. This ain't ARV up in here, and it's not Vietnam, Davy. There are rules.
Rules? It's day two. Did you get your answers from the dealer or are you still muddled with speculation in this forum? You do know you got the CEO of Roadtrek involved over on Facebook and I suspect it got back to the dealer in not so good way airing out your problems and confusion.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:38 PM   #242
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The website literature shows a 3000 watt inverter, but it is a 45 amp charger? I thought they were a combined unit, like a Magnum, so that would be really odd.
Sorry for the confusion. The inverter and the converter/charger are combined units but the big difference between the RT unit and a Magnum is that with RT, if the inverter tanks, the converter becomes unresponsive to shore side power. With Magnum, Prosine, et al, these functions operate independently.

BTW, I stand corrected regarding the 45 amp charging limitation. That's what's specified by Roadtrek but It's more complicated than that. There is a nominal setting but it can be programmed to higher or lower values. RT sets the limit to preclude tripping a 15 amp breaker and there is no user control for increasing the charge rate when hooked up to a 30 amp pedestal. I wonder if there is a power factor issue with the RT unit since I ran a Magnum 2000 100 amp charger at full squash without tripping a 15 amp breaker.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:51 PM   #243
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Sorry for the confusion. The inverter and the converter/charger are combined units but the big difference between the RT unit and a Magnum is that with RT, if the inverter tanks, the converter becomes unresponsive to shore side power. With Magnum, Prosine, et al, these functions operate independently.

BTW, I stand corrected regarding the 45 amp charging limitation. That's what's specified by Roadtrek but It's more complicated than that. There is a nominal setting but it can be programmed to higher or lower values. RT sets the limit to preclude tripping a 15 amp breaker and there is no user control for increasing the charge rate when hooked up to a 30 amp pedestal. I wonder if there is a power factor issue with the RT unit since I ran a Magnum 2000 100 amp charger at full squash without tripping a 15 amp breaker.
With a 30 amp input, there is really no reason to limit the shore charger unless they are trying to make sure they can run the AC, microwave, induction cooktop, and still charge the batteries without tripping a breaker. Nearly all B vans can trip the pedestal if they have AC and microwave on, especially with other stuff on. Another of their unexplained "features" I guess. I think Avanti has one of the Outback chargers that will make up the difference in AC output if the line can't keep up, by running inverted power on top of the AC from shore power, which is the way to go if you are worried about using that much. We don't even get close to that much power use on shore power 99+% of the time.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:01 PM   #244
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Thanks. The AGM can't "control" the ecotreks, right, it can just supply power to something that does control them. If I'm right, I wonder what it is? I was under the impression that the battery BMS controlled itself.
The battery BMS can and does shut down the battery when it reaches a defined state of discharge. At this point, neither the GU nor the shoreside converter will recharge the batteries because they don't see any batteries to charge. The AGM battery does nothing more than supply a battery load to trigger the GU or converter into operation during an attempted lithium battery reset. Other than that brief support it doesn't supply any power to any coach loads. Considering that this coach is fresh out of the factory, I don't think your problem is resulting from a failed AGM. In any event, a voltage check on the AGM will determine this one way or the other.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:41 PM   #245
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Rules? It's day two. Did you get your answers from the dealer or are you still muddled with speculation in this forum? You do know you got the CEO of Roadtrek involved over on Facebook and I suspect it got back to the dealer in not so good way airing out your problems and confusion.
I suspect that you haven't seen the Big Lebowski. I also suspect that what you suspect... is suspect.

BTW, I did just have 30 amp shore power kick off for some reason. Was running the A/C and charging the batteries and had the second inverter also on while trying to cook on the induction stove. Worked for about five minutes and then the shore power kicked off for some reason. Now the light on the cord is off so I think it's their breaker.

But that's just what I suspect.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:46 PM   #246
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I suspect that you haven't seen the Big Lebowski. I also suspect that what you suspect... is suspect.

BTW, I did just have 30 amp shore power kick off for some reason. Was running the A/C and charging the batteries and had the second inverter also on while trying to cook on the induction stove. Worked for about five minutes and then the shore power kicked off for some reason. Now the light on the cord is off so I think it's their breaker.

But that's just what I suspect.
I suspected right. Back to testing out the induction stove.
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Old 07-28-2017, 12:12 AM   #247
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So I think the only issue I have left is the A/C. It's in the 80s over here and yet the van gets up to 100 or so. The A/C blows out slightly cool air but not cold air and can't keep the van under 90 despite A/C on for hours on shore power. I'm guessing there is no way that can be normal because it would be a no go in this unit in the south during the summer for sure.

Once I get that fixed I'll test out the GU on a short road trip and test out the dumping and then we should be off to the races!
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Old 07-28-2017, 12:16 AM   #248
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The battery BMS can and does shut down the battery when it reaches a defined state of discharge. At this point, neither the GU nor the shoreside converter will recharge the batteries because they don't see any batteries to charge. The AGM battery does nothing more than supply a battery load to trigger the GU or converter into operation during an attempted lithium battery reset. Other than that brief support it doesn't supply any power to any coach loads. Considering that this coach is fresh out of the factory, I don't think your problem is resulting from a failed AGM. In any event, a voltage check on the AGM will determine this one way or the other.
Thanks for that info. I wonder if the chasis battery were to die if you could use that aux AGM to jump it. Would be a very short set of jumper cables needed.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:03 AM   #249
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So I think the only issue I have left is the A/C. It's in the 80s over here and yet the van gets up to 100 or so. The A/C blows out slightly cool air but not cold air and can't keep the van under 90 despite A/C on for hours on shore power. I'm guessing there is no way that can be normal because it would be a no go in this unit in the south during the summer for sure.

Once I get that fixed I'll test out the GU on a short road trip and test out the dumping and then we should be off to the races!

ARV is the only one who is serious on insulation.
All of the other B-upfitters only do minimal work.

The new Hymer Aktiv is the exception -- it has spray foam on the interior walls,
which gives excellent insulation value.
I don't think Hymer has implemented that feature on the legacy RT products yet.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:07 AM   #250
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Unit has been on shore power charging for 8+ hours now. Was reading 12.39 on the volt meter with all 8 batteries on, the inverter on, and shore power connected.

I then turned off the inverter and started up the engine to see what the GU shows while idling.

Initially it showed 13.30 for a few seconds and then dropped down and is maintaining 13.24 for a bit and now it shows 13.23 after about three minutes.

The only thing powered besides the frig is the fantastic fan.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:08 AM   #251
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Thanks for that info. I wonder if the chasis battery were to die if you could use that aux AGM to jump it. Would be a very short set of jumper cables needed.

Yes you can,
and you don't need a long jumper cable.
There is a jump port right in the engine bay.

When you get all settled down,
you can consider this upgrade:

LSL Products / LSLProducts.com - Problem-Solving Gear & Gadgets
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:09 AM   #252
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Yes you can,
and you don't need a long jumper cable.
There is a jump port right in the engine bay.

When you get all settled down,
you can consider this upgrades:

LSL Products / LSLProducts.com - Problem-Solving Gear & Gadgets
Awesome, thanks!
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:10 AM   #253
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...

The only thing powered besides the frig is the fantastic fan.
... and 4 BMS
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:11 AM   #254
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Unit has been on shore power charging for 8+ hours now. Was reading 12.39 on the volt meter with all 8 batteries on, the inverter on, and shore power connected.

I then turned off the inverter and started up the engine to see what the GU shows while idling.

Initially it showed 13.30 for a few seconds and then dropped down and is maintaining 13.24 for a bit and now it shows 13.23 after about three minutes.

The only thing powered besides the frig is the fantastic fan.
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... and 4 BMS
Actually 8 BMS...

It's showing 13.22 now. Not sure if this is an indication of the GU working properly or not....
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:16 AM   #255
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Got down to 13.21 so I turned off all but one ecotrek. It's showing 13.20 and I'll just see if the GU does anything with that single one.

Edit now showing 13.19.

Minutes later now showing 13.18.

It seems to me that the GU is not charging the ecotreks while idling. One ecotrek and the fantastic fan running and the frig, and the voltage is dropping.

Going to put shore power back on for now.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:25 AM   #256
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Actually 8 BMS...

It's showing 13.22 now. Not sure if this is an indication of the GU working properly or not....

You are feeling the BMS burn.

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Old 07-28-2017, 01:27 AM   #257
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What was the voltage when you started the engine? If it was above 12.8-13.0 volts, the Balmar regulator could have seen what it thought were full batteries and not done a charge cycle, so it would be at float at best, and temp corrected on top of that.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:27 AM   #258
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Thanks for that info. I wonder if the chasis battery were to die if you could use that aux AGM to jump it. Would be a very short set of jumper cables needed.
It's definitely worth checking out because Murphy's law guarantees that it's only a question of when, not if.

A good quality AGM derates about 15-20% for an equivalent size starting battery. Diesels typically require beefier starting battery support than gassers but I don't know if this is the case with a Mercy diesel. In any event, if the engine battery isn't completely discharged and just clicks the solenoid, bridging it with the AGM would probably do the trick. However, I would disconnect them ASAP after engine start. The alternator probably couldn't care less but I wouldn't risk the chance of damaging the Balmar regulator.

That said, acknowledging my remarkable success in trashing batteries, I opt for carrying one of the recently available lithium battery jump starters that aren't much bigger than a brick. I got the NOCO jump starter which works very well and will assist batteries to start that are deader than a door nail. And in the unlikely event of an AGM battery failure, it can be used to facilitate a reset to get liftoff from your GU or shore power.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:48 AM   #259
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It's definitely worth checking out because Murphy's law guarantees that it's only a question of when, not if.

A good quality AGM derates about 15-20% for an equivalent size starting battery. Diesels typically require beefier starting battery support than gassers but I don't know if this is the case with a Mercy diesel. In any event, if the engine battery isn't completely discharged and just clicks the solenoid, bridging it with the AGM would probably do the trick. However, I would disconnect them ASAP after engine start. The alternator probably couldn't care less but I wouldn't risk the chance of damaging the Balmar regulator.

That said, acknowledging my remarkable success in trashing batteries, I opt for carrying one of the recently available lithium battery jump starters that aren't much bigger than a brick. I got the NOCO jump starter which works very well and will assist batteries to start that are deader than a door nail. And in the unlikely event of an AGM battery failure, it can be used to facilitate a reset to get liftoff from your GU or shore power.

I have a lithium jumpstarter also-just in case
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:17 AM   #260
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What was the voltage when you started the engine? If it was above 12.8-13.0 volts, the Balmar regulator could have seen what it thought were full batteries and not done a charge cycle, so it would be at float at best, and temp corrected on top of that.
It was 13.39 before I started the engine with all 8 batteries charging. Flipped off the inverter and started the engine and it dropped.
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