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Old 02-17-2015, 09:46 PM   #41
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

I agree with Avanti, shore power is usually pretty good, and if you have a power conditioner (we do), it will just kick it out if there is an issue. We have had ours kick out once in 6 years, and it was back in about 30 seconds.

With the Magnum, if the shore power dropped and the Magnum kicked in, would you be backfeeding the entire campground?
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Old 02-17-2015, 10:02 PM   #42
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

Quote:
Originally Posted by booster
With the Magnum, if the shore power dropped and the Magnum kicked in, would you be backfeeding the entire campground?
No. Inverter/chargers have separate AC in and out.
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Old 02-23-2015, 05:15 PM   #43
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

Quote:
Originally Posted by booster
I agree with Avanti, shore power is usually pretty good, and if you have a power conditioner (we do), it will just kick it out if there is an issue. We have had ours kick out once in 6 years, and it was back in about 30 seconds.

With the Magnum, if the shore power dropped and the Magnum kicked in, would you be backfeeding the entire campground?
The Magnum has two different subsystems, the converter circuit (5 stage) which feeds the batteries from 120VAC, and the inverter system. So, if the shore power did drop, the inverter wouldn't be able to touch anything on the 120 VAC coming in. This can be tested by unplugging shore power and hooking up a voltmeter to the plug's leads. Plus, the rectifier turning 120VAC into 12-17 VDC cannot run in reverse to backfeed.

If I plug the inverter into the mains power using a widow maker cord, all bets are off... but I don't have a double-male cord, nor plan to have one.

Of course, the reason for clean power: If the deal goes through on the cabin that is completely off-grid that I'm looking to buy, I can power basic lights and such through the inverter and the battery. If I flip the cabin's 10,000 BTU A/C on, the inverter will draw from the batteries until it hits a low water mark, then will send a command to the control module to flip the generator on. Once the A/C is turned off, the generator will run until the batteries are at a reasonable SoC, then will shut off. If I'm staying at the cabin for a while, this pretty much means I have worry-free electricity while I am there (assuming enough gasoline, and the generator gets proper upkeep.) With this setup, I don't have to go out in the rain to manually start a portable generator and then stop it when it isn't needed, nor lug a 200+ pound generator like my Yamaha 3000 watt model that can remote start. I also don't have to worry about a skulker stealing a portable generator that is chained down at the property when I'm not there for weeks to months on end.

-edited-

American Power (americanpowerinc.com) has 360 ampere alternators available for the Transit, and apparently with a bracket allowing for it to be separate from the engine one. This gives 140 amps at idle to feed the batteries. This should be more than enough to handle the A/C while the vehicle is running. Done right, it really doesn't matter where the rig gets its power from (shore, generator, alternator)... everything south of the inverter will have a clean 120VAC signal.

Well, one quick update about floorplan:

The 110S floorplan is fairly straightforward, but what would be nice is to buy a sink like this:

http://caravansplus.com.au/catalog/prod ... ts_id=8499

and moving the bathroom to the back of the van, similar to the Travato 59K.

The advantage of doing this is that done right, there may be a little bit more room to shower, even to do a sit-down shower on the toilet, and not all of the back area would have to be devoted to a bathroom.

I can put in some cabinets there, provided there is a mechanism for protecting against water. The TP dispenser would go in a water resistant one on the rear door. By moving the bathroom back, I'll still have two parallel beds, but have more room for cabinets and maybe even a desk where the bathroom unit would be.

Skylights and roof vents are also important, so I'm trying to balance that versus solar panel space. At the minimum, I want one Fantastic Fan that is 12 volts, and has a thermostat, so I can have it automatically run when the rig is stored to keep it reasonable cool in the Texas summer without needing the energy for the A/C.

Today has freezing rain, but I should have some news from Sportsmobile this week. As usual, any floor plan suggestions or any tips would be very valued.
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Old 02-23-2015, 08:34 PM   #44
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

mlts22 here's another roof vent fan to consider. http://maxxair.com/products/maxxfan/max ... remote.php

I believe I might go with one of these, or same brand, different model, if starting from scratch or replacement, which I may need to do sooner than later as our Fantastic fan is getting noisier by the hour
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Old 02-23-2015, 10:17 PM   #45
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

The good thing about those is the cover. One other goal of a fan is the ability (again, while in storage) to place a box over the fan, with the box having air filters on all sides, and run the fan in reverse. This way, it keeps dust out, and the van at positive pressure. Then, when ready to hit the road, I pop the box off and am ready to roll. Of course, I wonder about an easy to change filter as well that hopefully doesn't require hopping to the roof to replace. With this in place, the van will stay cool... but won't wind up dusty. One of my peeves about my current rig is the lack of good, high-CFM ventilation. If I want to cool it, I have to fire up the A/C.

As for the door, here is something I'm looking at: http://www.diyrvshop.com/Door_Conversions.php
And another: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/261560690829072038/

I am researching the RV door on a Transit, and it is a modification, but not too major, especially if the fiberglass maker knows their stuff. As always, assuming this is installed correctly, this will get rid of the noise opening and slamming a sliding door gives, as well as provides more usable space for a table for the passenger, when it gets swiveled around. Sealed correctly, it also lessens the amount of single-pane glass as well. It goes without saying that this piece will get lined with Hushmat. The downside of this mod is that it kills stealth, but what I'm aiming for is usability first.

Oh, as for dual alternators, it appears from the topic I started on the US Transit forum, that AGM jars will be a must for this, as they are more tolerant of charging profiles... and can easily slurp up the high amps an alternator feeds them. I definitely want to keep the chassis subsystem isolated from the house subsystem just to make repairs easier if one fails. I will assume this can be done somehow, as these vans are used overseas as ambulances, so there should be some sort of bracket available.

Now for water pumps: For a van, an accumulator tank like the Shur-Flo 182-200 is a must, because it not just stops the late night "burrup" noises, but helps make for a constant pressure. Estimating how I will be using water, it will be almost 50/50 with city water and water from the tank, because when going on trips and at FHU, having direct pressure is good. When dry camping (renaissance faire, or Wallydocking), having full water pressure is important as well. I'd like to have some sort of inline filter mechanism, but I tend to use a Camco filter as a pre-filter, mainly to catch any nasty crud before it hits the tank or water lines in the first place. I thought of an ice maker, but if I'm storing the van, that is way too much work to winterize, so I just need to make sure I have a decent freezer compartment for that.
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Old 02-24-2015, 08:46 PM   #46
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

Anxious to hear what Sportsmobile comes up with on your inquiries. Are you sure you want to go with the dual alternator setup over a larger aftermarket replacement high output at idle model? Way less complications.....
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Old 02-24-2015, 08:49 PM   #47
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

I have thought of just not bothering with an additional alternator, and going with a conventional setup, good enough to keep the house batteries charged... if I need more wattage than that, the Onan can be run while driving and be used as a pass-through power source for the inverter.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:20 PM   #48
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

The MaxxFan Deluxe with remote is what we have in our ARV. I've had two different models of Fantastic Fan in the past including their best. To me there is no comparison. The MaxxAir is much quieter and the Fantastic fan speed range doesn't match the MaxxAir 10 speed.
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Old 02-25-2015, 04:00 AM   #49
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

Thank you, as personal recommendations are important. I think I'll go with the MaxxFan Deluxe because of the built in cover, and that it has a primitive thermostat. 78 degrees is the default... but that is just fine as a point where the fan vents due to the Texas heat, then shuts off at night.

I did send a note to Sportsmobile, and they have been upfitting a number of Transits, so mine will not be a guinea pig model. From the exchange, here are some changes:

1: I'm going to drop the Euro windows. Instead, will get the tip-out awning ones, as theirs have built in curtains. This will gain me some stealth at the expense of some insulation.

2: I'm tossing the dual alternator idea. Instead, I'm going with a 4000 watt Magnum Energy MSH4024RE, which allows for power to come from the batteries, and two 120VAC sources, in any combination. It will be connected to the ME-AGS-N controller so when the batteries go low on SoC (and the quiet hours permit), the Onan starts, and when off, the Onan stops. This way, there is no worry about draining batteries, and I don't have to worry about flipping on and off the generator when using stuff. In the case there is a blackout or brownout at a CG, the battery, and then the generator will supplement shore power. The total cost of the high-zoot inverter, controller, a battery monitor, and a ME-ARC50 panel is about $3000, but it adds a lot of flexibility to the electrical setup. Solar will use a Morningstar MPPT controller.

I'm not going to go too gung-ho on solar, because I have other aims ... 200-300 watts is good enough to help counteract the amp draw of the furnace. More is nice, but I'm mainly going for simplicity here. However, on a van where every square inch is prized, a name-brand MPPT charge controller goes without saying.

3: I am going to go for an electric refrigerator almost certainly, as they take up 3 amp-hours. I like the LP gas fridge's ability to not eat battery, but with the electrical system I have planned, if the battery gets drained to near 55% SoC, the generator comes on. Again, the absorption fridge is light on the electrics, but the disadvantages of it requiring a LP gas line, a vent for air coming in, and an exhaust vent, as well as the fact that it has to be level, and it doesn't chill as well as a compressor based unit, make it not worth the trouble. Plus, the cost difference will help make up for the inverter and the networked generator controller.

4: I'm tossing the idea of the fiberglass RV door. Again, no makers able to do this in the US, and it isn't worth the time and trouble. So, it will have a sliding door just like virtually every other "B" out there.

5: I might jump to the 130S plan, give the relative the gaucho bed and I sleep in the aisle, on trips where we go both together. This floor plan gives up bed space, but it has a lot more storage and a small, separate desk with a chair. It also has a rear bathroom like the new Travato floor plan. I forgot to ask if a folding sink is a feasible option, as moving the sink over the toilet can add a good amount of usable space.
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:07 PM   #50
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

I got a bit confused re: the fridge. Is it DC compressor type? I don't understand the "3 amp-hours" in reference to the fridge. Is it something like 3 amps per hour x 24 hours or maybe less?
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Old 02-25-2015, 02:07 PM   #51
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

Looks like nice stuff! I was just reading the Magnum information, I assume you will have the battery monitor feature to run the AGS, so you will also have capability of programming the full charge parameters to prevent over or under charging from the charger, which is very good for you batteries. It looks like they shut off the charger and monitor the battery voltage once the charge is fully complete, and then turn it back on when the battery voltage drops to a set level. Odd that they don't have a way to just run the 12v stuff off the charger on float voltage when all is full. I could be wrong on how they have it, however, as the manual is a touch confusing. Lots of really nice features.

Can you get a Magnum solar controller that is compatible with the charger/inverter? If you can, you would get all the advantages of the battery charge control functions that they use to determine full charge off the charger. Unless they have changed very recently, the Morningstar controllers are not very sophisticated in their charging, using timers only with a few voltage references, and way below the level of the charger/inverter you are getting. The one we had would put a full charge cycle on every day, whether the batteries were full or not, causing overcharging. If you can't get compatible Magnum controller, you still may want to look at other brands like Blue Sky, that let you do the same charging parameter setting and control like the Magnum charger does, preventing over and under charging. It could probably run off the same shunt that the Magnum uses, so the would work well together, I think.
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Old 02-25-2015, 05:27 PM   #52
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

The fridge sucks 3 ampere-hours of electricity, but no clue on the duty cycle, so it can be a lot less. At worst, 72 Ah per day, which can be made up for by a 200-300 watt solar bank, or if I have the van stored, a 15 amp connection will be more than enough.

I made a big goof: The inverter I specced is a 24 volt one. SMB -can- do a 24 volt house system, but this is a goof on my part. Instead, the inverter will be a MSH3012-M that has only one 120VAC input... but with an automatic transfer switch that prefers the generator, this isn't a big deal.

Magnum Energy doesn't have any solar CCs, otherwise, I'd go with one of those. What brand of MPPT controller would you recommend? I am looking for a top notch CC because on weekdays, the CC will just be floating the batteries, the biggest current draws will be the fridge and maybe the rooftop vent fan.

The main advantage I am getting from this is the ability to use appliances without worrying about if the generator is on or off. If the generator is off and the A/C unit fires up, the batteries will power it for 5-10 minutes, then the generator will fire up.

There are four pieces to the Magnum Energy system: The MSH3012-M inverter, the ME-ARC v4.0 remote, the ME-AGS-N generator controller, and the ME-BMK battery monitoring kit. Since all of these communicate over something similar to a CANbus, I can get some very customizable charge profiles going.

For example, the low water mark I plan to use for the batteries is 60%. The high water mark is 90%. This doesn't sound like much, but a generator isn't going to do much past 90% unless it runs for days, and going below 50% SoC is damaging to even AGM batteries. However, with the generator able to autostart, if I have 300 amp-hours, after 5-10 minutes of A/C run time, the generator will start. In addition, I can always program in quiet hours, so that combined with some common sense would ensure that there wouldn't be any middle of the night clatter where it is forbidden. As a bonus, the genset can run a few minutes before quiet time, as a method of topping off the batteries.

I can also program in different incoming shore power profiles. This way, the inverter will never overload the Onan, but on true 30 ampere current, will be able to draw from all of it.

Another autostart use is temperature thresholds. For example, if I were storing the van and didn't want to winterize it, I could place an electric heater inside, flip the inverter into bypass mode (where it does not do any inverting, but allows 120VAC to go through), and at 35 degrees, the generator would fire up, which would fire up an electric heater. After 2-3 hours, the van likely will be in the 70s or warmer, and the generator will shut off. I don't want to do this often, but it allows me to not worry about winterization.

Of course, there is taking care of exercising the generator. If the generator isn't used for a period of time, it can be set to start and run for a few hours.

I don't mean to be exhaustive on these details, but for me, the Magnum Energy setup solves a lot of problems, be it making sure the genset is run, preventing batteries from depleting, handling low shore power, and if hooked up to the off-grid cabin via a 30A cable, there would be no need to worry about going outside to flip the generator on and off.
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Old 02-25-2015, 06:02 PM   #53
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlts22
The fridge sucks 3 ampere-hours of electricity, but no clue on the duty cycle, so it can be a lot less. At worst, 72 Ah per day, which can be made up for by a 200-300 watt solar bank, or if I have the van stored, a 15 amp connection will be more than enough.
Just a nit: I think you mean that "The fridge sucks 3 amperes", not "3 ampere-hours". An Ampere-hour is a one-amp load running for one hour.
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Old 02-25-2015, 06:40 PM   #54
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

The only solar controller I know of offhand that does a good job of charging using return amps like the Magnum will, and is and MPPT is Blue Sky, but there likely are others that do that also. We have the Blue Sky and it works very well at taking the batteries full without overcharging them.

We find that our 3cf compressor frig, the also pulls about 3 amps, will use between 17 and 45AH per day, but we haven't been continuously in 100+ degree heat with it, so you 72 could turn out to be true.

We have found that our 200 watts of solar will give us over 70AH on a very good day with high sun angles. Lots of things can make it drop very quickly to much less than that and we have seen 10AH or under in a day. I think if you average 20AH per day per 100 watts you are doing pretty well.

How much parasitic draw is the big inverter going to be pulling? We don't run our 1500 watt when we don't need it because it uses about 1.5 amps idling.
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:39 PM   #55
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

No load, 30 watts from the inverter. However, it isn't hard to flip the inverter off when not in use.

As for corrections, they are much appreciated. It may be a small detail, but electrical calculations are quite unforgiving on this.

The fridge will be the 7CF electric model, No pre-chilling of beer or needing to juggle ice packs between the freezer and the fridge part to keep stuff cold anymore.

The Blue Sky Solar Boost 3000i is close to ideal. I would be surprised to get anything more than 250 watts from a top mounted panel set, so its 290 watt maximum is good enough.
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:45 PM   #56
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

Our GWV has both the NovaKool RFU6800 and a Blue Sky Solar Boost. I can attest from first hand experience that you are on the right track.
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:26 PM   #57
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

If you get a Blue Sky, be sure to get the Pro Remote so you get all the programmability. Hopefully, you will be able to control the Blue Sky off the same shunt as the Magnum to save space and wiring.
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Old 02-26-2015, 12:04 AM   #58
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

I agree - the Blue Sky MPPT solar charge controller is top notch and the Pro Remote is excellent. It also works well with the Magnum inverter/charger in my van. I added 400 watts of solar to replace the puny 50 watt solar panel provided by Airstream in my Interstate. I bought the entire solar system from AM Solar in Oregon. They are great to work with and provided everything right down to wiring labels. They only sell Magnum an Blue Sky products based on their years of research and experience.


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Old 02-26-2015, 03:58 AM   #59
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

The Pro Remote will be a definite purchase. I am a person who likes to tinker, and having the ability to see the status on all the van's subsystems will be a nice thing. I think that with the Magnum Energy system and Blue Sky controller and remote, coupled with a a pair of voltmeters on the house and chassis batteries, I should have a decent electrical system, especially if SWD breakers are used.

The final thing I plan to add is an inline energy management system on the shore power line. This will be a Progressive Industries EMS-HW30C with a remote display. This way, finding out that a 30 amp outlet is wired for 240 means seeing an "E-3" code on the monitor as opposed to smelling magic smoke. Of course, this can interfere with the inverter dealing with low voltage and boosting it, but all the EMS stuff (except for the surge protection) can be bypassed, if need be. I rather have no shore power than 90 volts, because if the shore power is that low, it can mean other electrical faults as well, and if all my ducks are in order, and shore power sags in the middle of the night (or just drops altogether), the batteries likely can handle the load, or the generator will kick in automatically if the A/C is running. Plus, if shore power gets above 132 volts, I'd rather have the EMS clamp that, as opposed to the inverter.

The next part I am going to have to figure out is the floorplan. I want to KISS, so I might just go with the 110S floorplan, and call it done. Part of what I factor in, is resale value, and a fairly mainstream floorplan can make a lot of difference. There is also the 157S floorplan as well, but I'm leaning to the 110S, as the gaucho/couch that doesn't house the FW tank can be folded up against the wall for more workspace or floor storage.

-edited- Looks like the Transit project is on hold. I have a relative who will be traveling with me, and it seems like she finds a "B" too stifling for her. For me, the Transit is ideal, but I do defer to her wishes, so if she feels too claustrophobic in a "B", and a truck camper, it may be that I wind up looking at a short "C", although this is not something I really want to do.
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Old 03-04-2015, 10:27 PM   #60
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Default Re: Finally, a Transit upfit (research stages atm)

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Mlts22. You have some kind of patience. I've been reading your posts on various forums and amazed at your self control. I wish you much luck with your choice. I know you have put a lot into the decision. I know you'll keep us posted and will look forward to progress reports. Congratulations.
Ditto:me too. We are all with you in support for your project Mts.22 Platform and drivetrain all sound great. You don't mention a BATHROOM? Presumably one should fit in nicely.
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