Storing your RV

[Estoniankid]

Been doing my research and close to pulling the trigger on purchasing a new
Class B. A total newbie here, but thanks to this and another Class B forum, I am slowly working towards a B.S. in Responsibilities of Van Ownership.

One issue I have not seen addressed is storing your Van. I live in Bay Area, and
my house does not have a garage suitable for an RV, be it 20' or 22'. The temperature rarely goes below freezing even in the winter, but leaving the vehicle out in the elements year round has to create issues. I have plenty of driveway space and could buy a a simple canvas cover or some sort of slip cover for the van, but, just like our housing prices, renting interior RV storage space is a significant expense.

Does it make sense to purchase one of these great toys, only to leave it exposed year round?

Any info or suggestions would be welcomed

Thanks

[@Michael]

I leave mine out year around in Minnesota weather. Class B's are like trucks, they're made to be left outside.

I suspect though, that the plastic vents up on the roof and perhaps the tires might degrade faster than if stored indoors or under cover.

[Rlum]

Originally Posted by Estoniankid

Been doing my research and close to pulling the trigger on purchasing a new
Class B. A total newbie here, but thanks to this and another Class B forum, I am slowly working towards a B.S. in Responsibilities of Van Ownership.

One issue I have not seen addressed is storing your Van. I live in Bay Area, and
my house does not have a garage suitable for an RV, be it 20' or 22'. The temperature rarely goes below freezing even in the winter, but leaving the vehicle out in the elements year round has to create issues. I have plenty of driveway space and could buy a a simple canvas cover or some sort of slip cover for the van, but, just like our housing prices, renting interior RV storage space is a significant expense.

Does it make sense to purchase one of these great toys, only to leave it exposed year round?

Any info or suggestions would be welcomed

Thanks

I live in Southern California. Have had my PW van for 6 years. Always stored outside without a cover. Yes, the tires deteriorate quicker but I usually change tires by date rather than mileage. I would not recommend covering the vehicle. These vehicles are like cars so proper washing/waxing really is all that is required.

[booster]

I also live in Minnesota and have had several vehicles that were "special purpose" as in only used in the non snow months. Hotrods, the Roadtrek, etc. Of course we also have had daily drivers but they are not what Bs are for most folks.


We have looked at a lot of vans in our travels, and plenty when we were looking for a B in 2006 timeframe, almost all in Minnesota but also in Florida while there on vacation.


In my opinion the vehicles that are stored inside shore much less wear and tear over time. While the paints have gotten better over time, they still oxidize, craze, and sometimes peel topcoat from lots of sun everyday. The plastic part fare even worse with color shifting and getting brittle. If the windows aren't covered the interior will fade and dashes crack also from the sun. Tires as was already mentioned are a known issue.



But the main concern to me, rust, is different depending on where you live. If you live in the desert you probably will never rust outside unless the paint gets too bad from the sun and exposes bare metal. If you live near the ocean the air is salty a considerable distance inland and builds up on the vehicles. Add a bit of rain or condensation and salt water is getting into bad places. They basically rust from the top down more than from the bottom up like northern cars do. Southern cars from humid areas get a lot of condensation so get wet nearly every night, often on the body and underbody and it will also cause rust but again slower than the northern cars and oceanside ones.


Northern cars, if not driven in the salty months, still rust faster than indoor stored ones, from all I have seen. Snow sitting on them and melting over time leaves water in any area it can settle in and be there a long time. Windshield and rear window frames are a common point for this kind of problem. The underbodies don't usually get wet from snow but they still rust from condensation do to where they are. The steel bodies and frames stay cold for a long time after a colder night and the sun will heat the areas around the vehicles and evaporate snow which raises the humidity. That moist air blows underneath and condenses on the cold parts that haven' warmed up yet. I have seen cars that actually had a thick layer of frost on parts of the underbody. For some reason brake rotors tend to rust very quickly and sometimes a lot over a winter of stored outside and will always grind a bunch in spring for a while. This can require sanding the rotors and pads and rebedding the brakes like you would new parts. Inside stored vehicles, unless they see a lot of humid air and temps swings will come out of storage and have clean rotors, or just a haze of rust that isn't usually and issue. Many people with hotrods will put a sheet of plastic under the vehicle to keep moisture from coming up form the ground or garage floor and condensing on the vehicle indoors.



Covers are not a perfect solution, IMO, as they can flap and wear on the paint and plastic and they can also be a trap for moisture and make it hard difficult to have that condensation dry out. They work well to keep rain, snow, sap, etc, off, though, and also prevent sun and acid rain damage.


Indoors is best, but often not easy to do or cheap if you can manage to find storage. Carports can be a decent compromise solution, though, in many parts of the country.

[mloganusda]

Will the city let you have a free-standing carport in your driveway?

[Estoniankid]

Originally Posted by mloganusda

Will the city let you have a free-standing carport in your driveway?

I would love to do just what you showed what you are doing for storage, but alas, banned by the evil City.

[N147JK]

Originally Posted by Estoniankid

Does it make sense to purchase one of these great toys, only to leave it exposed year round?

If I knew I had to leave it outside year round, I wouldn't buy a new one. The new ones are insanely expensive, and it seems they ought to be stored indoors, at least until they get dinged up a little! Besides, many of the older vans are better built than the new ones, have better interior layouts, and of course cost much less.

[avanti]

Chalk me up to the "outside is fine" column. I have owned three vans over 18 years, and they have all spent their entire lives stored outdoors. My rustprone 2004-T1N-based Airstream Interstate may have had its typical rust accelerated a bit, but our last rig never showed any sign whatsoever of exterior damage. And, I don't believe in wax, either. Modern metallurgy and paints are miraculous. Wisdom inherited from pervious decades just doesn't always apply any more.

There WAS a bit of sun damage to the upholstery, so I have become a convert of always keeping the windows blocked. And, there is no doubt that sun exposure can shorten tire lifetime of your tires, so if that is an issue for you, you might consider tire covers. But I agree with others that a whole-van cover is a bad idea.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Chalk me up to the "outside is fine" column. I have owned three vans over 18 years, and they have all spent their entire lives stored outdoors. My rustprone 2004-T1N-based Airstream Interstate may have had its typical rust accelerated a bit, but our last rig never showed any sign whatsoever of exterior damage. And, I don't believe in wax, either. Modern metallurgy and paints are miraculous. Wisdom inherited from pervious decades just doesn't always apply any more.

There WAS a bit of sun damage to the upholstery, so I have become a convert of always keeping the windows blocked. And, there is no doubt that sun exposure can shorten tire lifetime of your tires, so if that is an issue for you, you might consider tire covers. But I agree with others that a whole-van cover is a bad idea.

I understand your experience and I would probably be closer to agreeing if the vans many are talking about were only 11 and 8 years old like yours were. Ours is currently 15 and we are keeping in much longer if we are able. When you start looking at older vans, say over 10 years old, depending on the van manufacturer and builder, and location probably, outside vs inside gets pretty evident IMO. Lots of people are coming on the forums and asking about 20 year old vans regularly that they may buy.

[avanti]

Fair enough.

I suppose the "cutoff date" varies by marque and by upfitter. I will say that no vehicle I have owned that was built in the 21st Century has had a rust or paint issue (and I live in a very rust-prone area); the exception being the T1N Sprinter which rusted everywhere that Airstream drilled a hole.

It is probably true that vans have tended to trail passenger cars in this regard. Plus, many upfitters do an awful job at rust prevention. Wouldn't it be great to have a database of real-life experience with vans of various ages and pedigrees?

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Fair enough.

I suppose the "cutoff date" varies by marque and by upfitter. I will say that no vehicle I have owned that was built in the 21st Century has had a rust or paint issue (and I live in a very rust-prone area); the exception being the T1N Sprinter which rusted everywhere that Airstream drilled a hole.

It is probably true that vans have tended to trail passenger cars in this regard. Plus, many upfitters do an awful job at rust prevention. Wouldn't it be great to have a database of real-life experience with vans of various ages and pedigrees?

That would be a very useful database to have for a lot of people. Now all we can do is live on personal experience and what we read on the forums so very limited information.


My personal observation has been that by about 15-20 years ago the rust issues had been beaten back by a whole lot by almost all the manufacturers, but lately in has come back badly, primarily on frame and suspension parts. My guess is that the use of more high strength steels for the stressed parts so they can be made lighter and thinner is causing a lot of the issue. High strength steels tend to rust easier and faster from what I have read and thinner is gone faster. I see way more cars up here in Minnesota that are rusty now compared to 15 years ago. Craigslist is full of them with rust and bad frames or rear suspension and engine cradle/crossmembers in the front.

[MsNomer]

My PM has spent more than ten years outside in every condition from hot desert to cold and rainy. Not a speck of rust. When I wash it, the paint could pass for new except for the parking lot dings. Plastic is showing some age, but still looks OK. Tires get worn out every couple years. Interior is like new.

[Estoniankid]

I have read anecdotal accounts of rodent intrusion while stored.

Anyone engage in any practices to prevent that from occurring, or
is that a result of a lightly used vehicle?

[Davydd]

I have stored outside 11 years in one of the harshest climates and inside in a heated space for the past 6 years. I can tell you without a doubt inside is better. Outside was in snow and cold over -20 degrees and I had lithium batteries for four of those years. I don't need to winterize and I can work on my van at any time inside. That is the benefit.

[MsNomer]

More a matter of opportunity. Our van rarely sits for more than a week anywhere. We have had 6 mouse incidents, one marmot who actually went for a short ride under the hood, and the cutest pica building a firewall insulation nest on the engine in full daylight while we were nearby. Fortunately, no wire damage yet.

[KurtFranz]

Originally Posted by MsNomer

My PM has spent more than ten years outside in every condition from hot desert to cold and rainy. Not a speck of rust. When I wash it, the paint could pass for new except for the parking lot dings. Plastic is showing some age, but still looks OK. Tires get worn out every couple years. Interior is like new.

How does the undercarriage look?

[jrobe]

Originally Posted by Davydd

Outside was in snow and cold over -20 degrees and I had lithium batteries for four of those years.

Lithium batteries is the other issue. I have an indoor but unheated storage space in a cold climate (Wisconsin). I am reluctant to spend the money on lithium batteries with frequent temperature well below freezing and well below zero. I don't want to have to pull my batteries out every winter.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by jrobe

Lithium batteries is the other issue. I have an indoor but unheated storage space in a cold climate (Wisconsin). I am reluctant to spend the money on lithium batteries with frequent temperature well below freezing and well below zero. I don't want to have to pull my batteries out every winter.

Yep. Sub-zero temperatures are the achilles heel of lithium. Below freezing is just an inconvenience; below zero is potentially fatal. If you are going with lithium, you have four options:
1) Heated storage for the vehicle.
2) Taking the batteries inside every winter.
3) Reliable shore power plus battery heaters.
4) A van control system adequate for dealing with sub-zero events -- likely including remote start.

I am counting on a combination of #3 and #4.

[booster]

Originally Posted by avanti

Yep. Sub-zero temperatures are the achilles heel of lithium. Below freezing is just an inconvenience; below zero is potentially fatal. If you are going with lithium, you have four options:
1) Heated storage for the vehicle.
2) Taking the batteries inside every winter.
3) Reliable shore power plus battery heaters.
4) A van control system adequate for dealing with sub-zero events -- likely including remote start.

I am counting on a combination of #3 and #4.

Agree, and we are counting on #1.

[booster]

This type of discussion always brings up a question to that generates from (too) many years of dealing with manufacturing processes at work.


Seldom, if ever, have I seen a temp rating for products and/or processes that is at sharp cutoffs when you look at the raw testing data which you can sometimes get from the manufacturers. It is almost always a curve of most any shape you can think of. This is especially true if the temp limit points just happen to hit easy to remember temps like boiling, freezing, simple numbers.


In the case of where lithium issues happen those points are coincidentally(?) 0C and -20C which fits the profile.


I would bet quite heavily that if someone actually published a damage done/life vs temperature graph we would see a curve, not a cutoff. There would be two different graphs, one for charging and one for storage.


I think we would see the start points for damage starting quite a bit higher than 0 and -20 and probably get steeper as they go lower.



Picking the right point for the spec is likely a best guess of life vs use and also sales potential.


I hope nobody figures they are safe at -19C and +1C as those temps are within a tiny amount of the spec ones, and most likely so is the damage.


Of course, there is also the possibility that the specs have a safety cushion on them like some products like most bearings do for temp, but I doubt that applies to the very competitive battery market much except for dangerous failures.