New? Hymer Travato 59k knockoff "Sunlight"

[Ron J. Moore]

Like others, I may take a run to CW, a place I despise, and see if they have any, and what they are really like. Ron

[gaiusgracchus33]

I was amazed at this review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WzUs5IqtEo

There is part 2 following it if you watch to the end (skip over the extraneous comments at the end - he's a bit outrageous)

[mumkin]

He apparently hadn't read anything about this before he went to look. And assumes that one can get the same quality as a roadtrek for a hugely lower price...

Goes a bit camp... thought it was going to turn x-rated for a second.

[Porsche911]

Same the whole world over, you get what you pay for......well mostly, I'm sure that this must be one that was made on a Friday. I can't believe all of these units produced are as poorly built as this example but it is defiantly an eye opener for "buyer beware".

[Ron J. Moore]

It would be even more eye opening if this guy visited about ten CW's and did his preview! They are junk, and that Salesman is of the CW caliber. I hope that the lending institutions view this...and it will answer why people will quit making payments - and they have to repo them.

[gaiusgracchus33]

Originally Posted by mumkin

He apparently hadn't read anything about this before he went to look. And assumes that one can get the same quality as a roadtrek for a hugely lower price...

Goes a bit camp... thought it was going to turn x-rated for a second.

Hmm. Not completely fair to say this. There is a universe of difference between a RT and something that is as abysmal an example of an RV as this.
No one expects RT quality, but for about 60k, most of us would not expect that level of shoddy, pathetic workmanship.

[mumkin]

Originally Posted by gaiusgracchus33

Hmm. Not completely fair to say this. There is a universe of difference between a RT and something that is as abysmal an example of an RV as this.
No one expects RT quality, but for about 60k, most of us would not expect that level of shoddy, pathetic workmanship.

This rig... shoddy as it is... does come with the Lithium batteries, inverter, underhood generator, AC, and fridge/microwave as on many of the Hymer/RTs. In other words, the expensive bits.

The MSRP on a Hymer Activ similarly equipped would be 100K. (adjusting for the Ecotrek size difference) Same Promaster platform... so there is about a $40K discount for the crappy interior. Seems about right actually. Though Hymer's thinking here escapes me.

[Storysrvwego]

I did not see an answer from dev13 yet re if the Sunlight V1 has a macerator as someone else noted from a brochure. I believe it does although I still have not seen one. What I am certain it does not have is the slick setup that the CARADO Axion has. The Axion has a 3 inch elbow on the passenger side of the 23 gallon (top of the tank which is interesting, must be a pickup sump of some sort inside?) and a short straight where a cable operated waste gate valve is located. A macerator pump that I think is a FloJet is attached here with 3 inch coupling and receives the waste from the combined grey/black tank. The 1 inch (looked like 1.5) output port of the macerator is a semi-flexible hose that travels under the chassis over to the driver side into a lockable small box. Inside the box is an expandable length one inch hose with a Thetford Sani-Con-like (but maybe a different brand) fitting on the end to put in a standard RV dump station fitting or your own home's cleanout port. VERY SLICK. As long as the users of the Axion put only human waste and RV spec toilet paper through it. Anything else and the users will have made themselves unhappy campers. Unfortunately the plumbing does not have a 3 inch bypass port before the macerator inlet. If it had that, then in a pinch you could connect a standard 3 inch dump hose until someone cleans out or replaces the $250-ish dollar macerator pump. Plus labor if not done yourself so guessing about a $400 to $500 total price job for new pump and labor.

My wife and I are considering taking a 5+ hour drive in two weeks to first hand see a Sunlight V1 where I will crawl under and take pictures as I did with the CARADO Axion. I have more interest in the Sunlight to use as a base carcass to modify the heck out of it, including installing an Axion style waste system except with a 3 inch bypass if I can fit it in. As to the Quality Control of the Sunlight, it appears to continue to be, well, awful. I see the same flawed assembly in online pictures of the Banff which is as far as I can tell, the exact same chassis and coach as the Sunlight V1.

Now here is something interesting that CARADO did in the Axion. If you see one in person or look at a picture of the forward shower wall, you will see an expandable door that is likely screwed in place. This will eliminate much of the problem with the double sticky back separating the plastic wall from the MDF wall, or whatever the wall is made of. Who's idea was it to use lots of inches of double sticky back tape between these two surfaces anyway? At least a few well placed stainless steel shoulder washer screws, problem solved but the expandable door in the Axion (instead of the rather clumsy and non-level folding piano hinge doors) will take care of most of the plastic wall warping. Re the Banff - so far it is marketed exclusively in Canada. Online pictures show that it has the same clumsy bathroom doors that hang like a horse already leaned on a gate. And the Banff has the same floppy/warpy shower wall panel in the pics I have seen.

To be fair to HYMER, I have seen some of the newest Sunlight V1's on RVTrader that look like some attempt to clean up QC issues have been made. Or maybe some of the dealers are fixing these things. QC issues or not, unfortunately I do not think an actual selling price of a Sunlight V1 will get it into the practical range for me to make it a "build out" project for me. I may as well get a ProMaster van and start a coach from scratch. Or continue with the plan to buy a WINNEBAGO Travato 59K next Spring. Pros and cons everywhere but at least the Travato has pretty much what we want already put together for us. But geez, the prices continue to climb.

From a support perspective, online resources from WB are truly outstanding. This is another area where HYMER at least on this side of the pond could do well if they at least started to put up a "Resources" web page with at least some of the things WB has on theirs. There has been some excellent improvements on their EHGNA related web sites in the last few weeks so somebody is heading this in the right direction. Even ROADTREK could improve in this department but at least you can download RT Owners Manuals.

[Phoebe3]

I don't know what your budget is, but if you like the Travato 59K and are willing to get one with a few miles on it, you are heading into the buying season. You can go to RVT.com and RVTrader.com and set alerts that will send an email when one comes available with your parameters. I might suggest that you just look for "Travato" since some of the 59Ks I saw didn't include that information - you had to look at the pictures to see which model it is.

I think it's a bit more than you are looking for, but RVT shows one in Florida with 7,000 miles on it for $75,000 and there's a new 2017 in New Jersey for about the same price. I'm guessing there will be more available and with lower prices in about a month.

You would have a LONG drive and airfare, but that seems like a lot less work than rebuilding a Sunlight or starting from scratch.

[mumkin]

Just for anyone who might care, the Sunlight Van One and Carado Banff are the same unit... built by the same factory line at Hymer. It is called the Banff in Canada and Sunlight in the US.

The Banff did come out slightly later than the Sunlight, so I suspect that some of the worst issues with the Sunlight were fixed on the Banff. (the learning curve shows in the Axion)

How and if these two units will continue is still a question...

[Storysrvwego]

09/06-2017 -
Thank you Phoebe3. We have some of the same, interesting pricing out here on the western side of the USA. A 2016 59K at JOHNSON RV has an asking price of $79,999. No wonder they still have it on their lot many months later at that beginning price. Seen this before. Apparently they are ok sitting on these things for a long time. On the plus side it is fully equipped with solar, FIAMMA roof rack/ladder and bike rack and relatively low miles. This is either a repossession, the dlr paid too much for trade-in or they just want you to play the old school game of lets negotiate for hours and still might end up paying too much. We talked with them months ago and I just checked on the price two days ago; without waving actual money or pre-approved financing at them, it's still $79,999 if you just ask them whats their price. Nearing 2 years old, the price of a new 59K which will full factory chassis and coach warranties makes more sense. A new one with exact same options and the features of a 2017.5 or 2018 at MSRP is a little over $82,000 without presentation of real money at them to arrive at a real price. Timing and our own budget plan is on our side for something we want but do not require. With every option minus the current rack/ladder and bike rack offered now, you can find them like the one you mentioned for $79k and even a bit less. I suspect some of the lowest prices posted online are conveniently leaving off something like dealer prep or something else they will require in an actual purchase. It is a shame that dealers start with MSUGGESTEDRP and work down rather than start from their true invoice after incentives & rebates accounted for and flooring costs if they have had it on the lot long enough for flooring to come into play.

There is technically nothing wrong with the pricing methods used. Put you or I in the same position and ask ourselves how you are going to keep your business afloat with your ever changing staff of sales people and parts manager. Oh don't get me started on parts and labor pricing, ha ha. As Phoebe3 suggests, buying an RV that already has what you want is definitely better than trying to build or adapt one yourself. My problem is that I do build things of all manner and usually pretty good at it. I am almost tempted to carry out an idea of configuring certain model Ram ProMasters (only) with generic backbone wiring including wiring to potential underhood 2nd alternator (alternator not included) and wiring to roof for solar (again, just the wiring) and plumbing in place, preset for buyer to drive away to do everything else else on their own inside, outside and underneath.

I ponder pre-installing an LP tank under the van whether the buyer wants it or not before someone once again thinks putting an LP tank inside the van is a bright idea.

Buyers will purchase their RAM ProMaster of the color and feature set within parameters at the RAM dealer of their choice and deliver it to me for fitment as described above. No customization's. This would be generic enough for the buyer to drive away to do almost anything they want with the pre-laid electrical and plumbing. Perhaps also sell ala carte some other items like insulation, sub flooring, etc. but nothing that is otherwise going to be easily shopped for best price on the Internet or local hardware store.

Someone out there want to fund my venture? Or hey, go for it yourself and if you do it right, I may be your first customer.

Gene

[wincrasher]

Putting the LP tank inside the van is the norm around the globe, as a replaceable portable bottle is much more convenient to deal with. Only in NA do we think it's not a "bright idea".

[BBQ]

.

In the old days (70s?) people would hang their 20lb BBQ propane tanks on the back of their rig. This is against the law now.

[Storysrvwego]

Aside from the safety aspects of how well bolted or strapped a tank is for even low speed crashes let alone roll overs and where the tanks are located inside an RV, we can at least agree I think that we can retain useful storage space inside an RV, especially Class B vans.

It does appear that "all electric" RV's, particularly in the Class B size is on our horizon. While gas cooking may be preferred by some, I don't think it would be a great loss to eliminate just the the darned ignitors, exterior rattling (or falling off) access panels and the hunt for LP when you suddenly run low. LP gas heating is of course still the main way to do this cheaply but I am confident that will change. ROADTREK has the right idea with their DC power systems even if they have had a few bugs to work out. We can just imagine someday having an all electric powertrain or at the very least, hybrid to lower the cost of over the road travel.

Speaking of electric power.... solar systems on the roof are great. Of course we tend to park RV's where there is shade. I do not know if others do this but WINNEBAGO has an outside accessible port to plug in portable panels. Smart! Now you can park in the shade and plug in one or more panels to capture the sunshine. With the right balance of solar power, underhood "generator" and preferably Lithium batteries, you could get at least some limited heater time from an RV equipped with a TRUMA Combi. It runs on LP or electricity or both. I think it has a pair of electrical heating elements. And not a terribly expensive unit either. It's a start!

Gene

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by Storysrvwego

…………………………….
It does appear that "all electric" RV's, particularly in the Class B size is on our horizon. While gas cooking may be preferred by some, I don't think it would be a great loss to eliminate just the the darned ignitors, exterior rattling (or falling off) access panels and the hunt for LP when you suddenly run low. LP gas heating is of course still the main way to do this cheaply but I am confident that will change. ROADTREK has the right idea with their DC power systems even if they have had a few bugs to work out. We can just imagine someday having an all electric powertrain or at the very least, hybrid to lower the cost of over the road travel.

Speaking of electric power.... solar systems on the roof are great. Of course we tend to park RV's where there is shade. I do not know if others do this but WINNEBAGO has an outside accessible port to plug in portable panels. Smart! Now you can park in the shade and plug in one or more panels to capture the sunshine. With the right balance of solar power, underhood "generator" and preferably Lithium batteries, you could get at least some limited heater time from an RV equipped with a TRUMA Combi. It runs on LP or electricity or both. I think it has a pair of electrical heating elements. And not a terribly expensive unit either. It's a start!
Gene

“"all electric" RV's, particularly in the Class B size is on our horizon” interesting statement. I wish to see actual energy calculation supporting that statement. Perhaps we are close to be able to store sufficient energy to heat a van, a well-insulated van but not for long. Even with phase change based heat storage it would be difficult to survive a day of deep winter weather on electric space heating without an additional source of sufficient energy besides batteries. Yes, under hood generator would be good if you can drive at night while sleeping or be able to survive angry neighbors. I am surprise how quickly LPG is getting bad press, it will be with us for a while.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

Yes, under hood generator would be good if you can drive at night while sleeping

Hmmm. Now that you mention it, this will soon be possible.

I guess campgrounds are obsolescent.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

Hmmm. Now that you mention it, this will soon be possible.
I guess campgrounds are obsolescent.

I wouldn’t go so far as obsolescent, but, expensive campgrounds vs self-driving vehicle with hood generator – time for an ROI calculation.

Cheers,

[Storysrvwego]

I haven't seen any bad press on LPG. Its a great resource and so far we have plenty of it.

[wincrasher]

Diesel heating is hard to beat. Get the heating and the water heating off the electrical system, and it's all easily manageable.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Diesel heating is hard to beat. Get the heating and the water heating off the electrical system, and it's all easily manageable.

Yes, diesel is indeed a good energy source. For our conversion, we picked:

Space heating: Diesel - Espar Airtronics D2
Water heating: Diesel/AC – Espar Hydronic D5/Marine Isotemp 15l water heater (Freeze protection loop almost finished)
Stove: Alcohol/AC – Origo
Fridge: DC 230Ah AGM /AC - Isotherm Compressor (charging by 300W Solar/AC/Alternator)
Microwave: AC/DC 230Ah AGM.

Having experience of designing and building the system if I would do a conversion again my system would look like this:

Space heating / Water heating: Diesel or LPG - integrated heater like Truma Combi or Webasto Dual Top
Stove: Alcohol/AC or LPG – Kenyon or Smev
Fridge: DC 300Ah AGM/AC - Isotherm Compressor
Microwave: eliminate, we rarely use it.