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Old 10-07-2017, 03:39 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Phoebe3 View Post
Thanks for the links to all the articles! Here's another one.

https://www.autovistagroup.com/news-...ing-8-year-old

A Swedish study found that the environmental impact for producing enough Kw to run a Tesla equals driving a gas vehicle for eight years. It doesn't say how often the Tesla's batteries need to be replaced.
No, Tesla Batteries Are Not a Global-Warming Disaster

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The article does goes on to say that it is't fair to compare new technology with engineering that has been around for 100 years.
Well, thanks to the authors for that, at least.

Disruptive technologies are ALWAYS inferior at first. It is just that they have a path to a better future.
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Old 10-07-2017, 04:23 PM   #22
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new technologies are squeezing every bit of hp out of every bit of gas

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Old 10-07-2017, 04:26 PM   #23
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Old 10-07-2017, 04:28 PM   #24
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more gas engine improvements

Mercedes Benz is doing similar thing to their new engines


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Old 10-07-2017, 05:00 PM   #25
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.

Toyota is holding out against using turbo chargers to improve gas mileage and reduce emission. Rumour has it that they have developed a new engine that can rival the turbo charged variants.

Fewer moving parts = few problems = lower ownership costs.

Stay tuned.
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Old 10-07-2017, 05:14 PM   #26
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In 2015 my Sprinter 4x4 arrived and life was perfect. I finally had a van to convert that I could take on ski trips. After a learning curve with the part time AWD system I seemed to have smooth sailing ahead.
Then the diesel engine problems started. I started loosing power after driving in stop and go traffic. It was just like my 2000 diesel golf used to act when the exhaust manifold used to clog. I thought the DEF system solved that problem but I guess not.

First time the dealer couldn't find any codes or problems so they updated the software and send me home.

Second time I was in CA and a x number of starts before limp mode came on so I was forced to drop it off at a CA dealer and rent a car for the rest of my vacation. They replace an oxygen sensor.

Then I just lived with it and became too busy for trips. I took it in a couple times but I don't remember what they did.

Right before the eclipse I took it in and told the dealer if it happened again I was going to shoot the van. The told me that CA put in the wrong OXY sensor part number so they replaced and assured me it was fine.

The last time while driving home from an eclipse trip it happened again and this time I was lucky to make it over the mountain pass. Finally, a check engine light came on. I called the dealer and let them know I was bringing the damn thing back. This time they replaced the crank shaft position sensor and after a 4000 mile road trip it seems fixed.

It took over a year to fix.
This could just be my luck, but diesel engines have such complicated emissions systems it seems there is a greater chance of problems.
Plus now Mercedes says not to idle the engine for extended periods.

I plan to sell my Sprinter van and buy a gas van where I can take short trips and idle if I want and not worry about when the next time "it" happens.

Has anyone had similar experiences?
We recently sold our 2015 MB 2500 and purchased a 2017 Promaster. We only had one engine light go off but itís a three day excursion for us to get to a MB Dealer. While thereís things we liked about the MB / diesel, we actually enjoy the Promaster more. The Promaster has better handling, fuel mileage not that much less, better in dash navigation, wider, easier to get it serviced, and a heck of a lot less engine concerns. If you are the type of person that can live with getting a delete once the warranty is off then the MB / diesel may work for you. IMHO, the new diesel engines have been severely compromised by EPA guidelines, good or bad.
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Old 10-07-2017, 06:03 PM   #27
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Generally speaking, the opposite is true:

[url]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/business/energy-environment/germany-diesel-car-emissions.html[/url

BMW is an outlier:

BMW Diesel: A clear commitment to the development of new engines

You will always find outliers and die-hards, but the writing is on the wall.
Mercedes is also developing new diesel engines. Don't believe any of the hype that electrics are just around the corner to overtake gasoline and diesel engines.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/warren-...way-1507324006

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Old 10-07-2017, 06:10 PM   #28
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We recently sold our 2015 MB 2500 and purchased a 2017 Promaster. We only had one engine light go off but itís a three day excursion for us to get to a MB Dealer. While thereís things we liked about the MB / diesel, we actually enjoy the Promaster more. The Promaster has better handling, fuel mileage not that much less, better in dash navigation, wider, easier to get it serviced, and a heck of a lot less engine concerns. If you are the type of person that can live with getting a delete once the warranty is off then the MB / diesel may work for you. IMHO, the new diesel engines have been severely compromised by EPA guidelines, good or bad.
This is my plan exactly. Having a daughter home, we really like the Aktiv plan. Either that or have Van Specialties build a similar RV. Actually an Aktiv 2.0 without propane, a Rixens h2o/heat system, and twin beds in back would be perfect.
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Old 10-07-2017, 06:20 PM   #29
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Don't believe any of the hype that electrics are just around the corner to overtake gasoline and diesel engines.
We'll see...
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Old 10-07-2017, 06:36 PM   #30
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Don't believe any of the hype that electrics are just around the corner to overtake gasoline and diesel engines.
Actually electric motors are so much more efficient than ICE engines it's only a matter of time until they take over.

The combustion engine’s efficiency is limited by thermodynamic principles to about 35% (Norbeck et al, 1996, 76).
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Old 10-07-2017, 08:55 PM   #31
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Actually electric motors are so much more efficient than ICE engines it's only a matter of time until they take over.

The combustion engineís efficiency is limited by thermodynamic principles to about 35% (Norbeck et al, 1996, 76).
We need to find ways to use all the extra heat from the combustion engines to increase the efficiency. Oh.. I'll heat my hot water tank with it... Oh... I'll heat the van with it...

Electric heating and cooling has a ways to go.
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Old 10-07-2017, 09:34 PM   #32
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IMHO the electric cars will prevail, but not now. Not yet.

Chevy built a very good electric car -- the Bolt.
It is about the same size as the Honda Fit.
It is inexpensive to buy, and can go 238 miles on one charge.
But it is not selling well.
Chevy had to stop the production in July to clear the inventory.

What gives?
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Old 10-07-2017, 10:17 PM   #33
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.

IMHO the electric cars will prevail, but not now. Not yet.

Chevy built a very good electric car -- the Bolt.
It is about the same size as the Honda Fit.
It is inexpensive to buy, and can go 238 miles on one charge.
But it is not selling well.
Chevy had to stop the production in July to clear the inventory.

What gives?
People still want the convenience of gasoline. Fill the tank in 2 minutes and your done, electric = at lease 20 minutes after you find a fast charger.

I traded a gas and electric car in on a Chevy Volt and I love it. 50+ mile range EV with a gas generator when you need to drive further.

Just wait until Marty McFly's flux capacitor becomes available and EVs will rule.
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Old 10-08-2017, 07:10 AM   #34
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BMW is not the only one. Mazda has developed a new Skyactive Diesel. Diesel in the Crafter is a new version of the 2litre one that got VW in hot water in the first place.
You will find quite a few Manufactuers not just BMW are developing new diesels.
Statement from Jaguar CEO on diesels

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/j...07-gvzyyr.html
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Old 10-08-2017, 01:10 PM   #35
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We need to find ways to use all the extra heat from the combustion engines to increase the efficiency. Oh.. I'll heat my hot water tank with it... Oh... I'll heat the van with it...

Electric heating and cooling has a ways to go.
Smokey Yunick claimed to have done just that many years ago with his "adiabatic engine". Quite a piece of equipment designed to ruse a lot of the waste heat.
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Old 10-10-2017, 01:10 AM   #36
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Daimler is covering all bases.

http://media.daimler.com/marsMediaSi...l?oid=29751288


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Old 10-11-2017, 06:38 PM   #37
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I know the thread title is Gas vs Diesel...
but where is a better place to talk about alternatives to either?

GM Reveals SURUS Autonomous, Fuel Cell Medium-Duty Truck Concept


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