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Old 06-12-2019, 04:53 PM   #1
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Default Win 10 auto update BS

I am completely fed up with Microsoft at his point.


When we travel we use a Verizon hot spot through a tablet for internet. We don't use data on phones except in rare cases.



When traveling, I have always kept the auto updates off unless we had a non metered connection to preserve our purchased data. It worked well for a decade for us, but now M has decided that there should be no way to turn off the auto updates. I have disabled in gpedit and every other trick I could find on the forums without success. Might work for a little while but all of a sudden turns itself on and update. We recently got socked with 5.3G of update during a two week trip that we had 4G paid for our use, and I had the update disabled and checked the day we left.


I have found a few more new methods of disabling auto, but now M has blocked changing those settings even with all the permissions set for everything and logged in as admin.


The forums appear to be full of users with the same problem, but fixes don't last or are now blocked. I have seen threads 1000 posts long with the same issue from all.


When out in the prairie on a crap connection barely running dialup speed, 5G will tie up the connection for days, not to mention the cost.


Does anyone have a clue what to do about this? Can update be unistalled and the put back on when wanted, or is Linux the only solution?
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:41 PM   #2
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I am completely fed up with Microsoft at his point.


When we travel we use a Verizon hot spot through a tablet for internet. We don't use data on phones except in rare cases.



When traveling, I have always kept the auto updates off unless we had a non metered connection to preserve our purchased data. It worked well for a decade for us, but now M has decided that there should be no way to turn off the auto updates. I have disabled in gpedit and every other trick I could find on the forums without success. Might work for a little while but all of a sudden turns itself on and update. We recently got socked with 5.3G of update during a two week trip that we had 4G paid for our use, and I had the update disabled and checked the day we left.


I have found a few more new methods of disabling auto, but now M has blocked changing those settings even with all the permissions set for everything and logged in as admin.


The forums appear to be full of users with the same problem, but fixes don't last or are now blocked. I have seen threads 1000 posts long with the same issue from all.


When out in the prairie on a crap connection barely running dialup speed, 5G will tie up the connection for days, not to mention the cost.


Does anyone have a clue what to do about this? Can update be unistalled and the put back on when wanted, or is Linux the only solution?
I don't have your solution, but I use another one at home. I use a chromebox and larger monitor at home to avoid windows 'stuff'.

The solution that I have wanted to use traveling is the same, chromebook laptop. The problem I would have traveling with a chromebook is obtaining wifi at a distance. I've used an external wifi adaptor/antenna (usb port) with a windows laptop all inside the B and never failed to score wifi if it was available. I want to travel with a chromebook, but it won't support an external wifi adaptor (usb port). I want the chromebook for the same reason - No windows updates.

My guess is that Chromebox/books will support a usb solution someday. If I were a geek about this, there might be a solution now.

If I can't find a solution, I may travel with both windows and chromebook laptops or use something like one of those antenna/router things with chromebook only.

Bud
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Old 06-12-2019, 06:25 PM   #3
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Maybe periodically reapplying steps 1, 2 & 3 - https://www.easeus.com/todo-backup-r...ly-update.html - while you're away will help.

Also, turn off WiFi when computer is on but not being used might help.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:20 PM   #4
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Maybe periodically reapplying steps 1, 2 & 3 - https://www.easeus.com/todo-backup-r...ly-update.html - while you're away will help.

Also, turn off WiFi when computer is on but not being used might help.

Those are all one's we have done and no longer work. In fact, while I was trying to find a solution it did another auto update, after I had disabled this morning, for another .6G.


What I have found is that the udates are getting turned back on by a Microsoft "task orchestrater" indirectly by scheduling a scan of some sort, and the scan turns on the updates so it is current for the scan, again through the orchestrater. Downside is that all the changes you need to do in the orchestrater are locked up with a Microsoft password so can't change. The have the orchestrater to do the scan at ever log in, so totally unaviodable



I did find a post that linked a program that you have to go in through CMD as an administrator which then opens the task scheduler stuff in a changeable mode. The post was related to repeated waking up of the PC, but that is also in the orchestrater and all worked the same.


I now have all that task set to only run if a new and not normally used user is logged in and only if on the home internet connection, on top of having it all also disabled.


We will see if it holds this time.


I am really starting to believe Orwell was right


This stuff has all been changed in the last few months, and many of the options are still there but don't do anything anymore.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:04 PM   #5
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Are you running a Home or Professional version of Windows 10?
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:14 PM   #6
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Have you considered or used the windows hide tool?

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ling-in-window

Maybe have it start at logon and throughout the day ........ I'd want the antivirus update for example but not the other one until on WiFi:

hide.JPG
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:46 PM   #7
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More options: https://greatis.com/stopupdates10/
and https://www.majorgeeks.com/content/p...indows_10.html
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Old 06-12-2019, 09:31 PM   #8
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I take my PC primely for no Wi-Fi use and with Wi-Fi for some urgent issues. For email and some social media, I use an Android device.

It is not going to get better, besides updates cloud computing and storage is another issue.

Adobe Lightroom [photographic editing software recently discontinued support for standalone copies moving to cloud base subscription only. To encourage customers to move to subscription Adobe discontinued new lens support for standalone copies, very frustrating. Last year I purchased a new Sony lens which is no longer supported by my standalone copy. A lot of folks are upset about it. This Adobe money making machine forcing folks to subscription backfired with me and a lot other folks, so I just got a standalone copied from ON1 competing product.

Cloud computing, cloud back-ups are going to require more data with mobile internet in 21st Century. Uncontrolled updates are frustrating but cloud stuff will likely be more frustrating unless $/GB will go down.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:30 PM   #9
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Are you running a Home or Professional version of Windows 10?

This is home edition, but I have added gpedit to it to get the update control. It worked for quite a while until M changed things. I read a couple of places that said that it doesn't matter how you have updates set it will always auto download version changes (those can be huge, the last one was 5Gig), and when it does that it also tunrns all the auto update stuff back on so everything updates auto.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:33 PM   #10
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Have you considered or used the windows hide tool?

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ling-in-window

Maybe have it start at logon and throughout the day ........ I'd want the antivirus update for example but not the other one until on WiFi:

Attachment 7707

I will have to look closer at the hide function, as I got the impression that stuff still downloaded but wouldn't install.
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:42 PM   #11
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I take my PC primely for no Wi-Fi use and with Wi-Fi for some urgent issues. For email and some social media, I use an Android device.

It is not going to get better, besides updates cloud computing and storage is another issue.

Adobe Lightroom [photographic editing software recently discontinued support for standalone copies moving to cloud base subscription only. To encourage customers to move to subscription Adobe discontinued new lens support for standalone copies, very frustrating. Last year I purchased a new Sony lens which is no longer supported by my standalone copy. A lot of folks are upset about it. This Adobe money making machine forcing folks to subscription backfired with me and a lot other folks, so I just got a standalone copied from ON1 competing product.

Cloud computing, cloud back-ups are going to require more data with mobile internet in 21st Century. Uncontrolled updates are frustrating but cloud stuff will likely be more frustrating unless $/GB will go down.

I discovered with all this that Adobe flash player is now imbedded in IE and Edge and can't be removed. It also updates through Windows Update so ypu also get all their crappy changes constantly. I don't use IE or Edge but If I take them off Windows goes nuts saying I need tham for all kinds of odd things with constant popup reminders to download it.


The cloud stuff is going to be rough on a lot of us. I found out that Windows was uploading every file I saved to the local computers to their One Drive which I hadn't ever signed up for. Some stuff was pretty large and would tie up DSL (gps maps for instance)
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:17 PM   #12
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Does anyone have a clue what to do about this? Can update be unistalled and the put back on when wanted, or is Linux the only solution?
I've had Mac's, Android, and Windows devices run me out of data by updating while on metered connections. What a pain.

Can you set your hotspot's WiFi properties in Windows to 'Metered Connection'/'On'? AFAIK, that will stop automatic background downloads.

On my Windows 10 it's Settings/Network & Internet/Status/Change Connection Properties/Set as Metered Connection. Yours might be in a different spot - I'm running an unreleased early preview of a future version of Windows 10.

FWIW - On Android I have to do the same thing - set my hotspot WiFi connections to 'Metered' - or it'll run me out of data with spurious updates and background data.

Edit: Found one more related setting. Under Update & Security/Windows Update/Advanced Options set 'Download over Metered' to Off.

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Old 06-13-2019, 06:19 PM   #13
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Re: download over metered - the sentence is clearer on newer builds

On my desktop PC it's: Automatically Download updates, even over metered data connections (charges may apply) - almost leads one to think automatic update downloading is optional

On my laptops it's: Download Updates Over Metered Connections (Extra Charges May Apply)

I see I can pause updates for up to 35 days on one laptop. I think the other laptop allowed pausing for up to 7 days and no option to pause showing up on the desktop PC yet.

edit: just adding - Looks like version 1903 adds pausing updates for up to 35 days.
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Old 06-13-2019, 09:14 PM   #14
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<snip>

On my laptops it's: Download Updates Over Metered Connections (Extra Charges May Apply)

<snip>
Hi Marko,

Where do you find that?

Thanks, Dick
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:26 PM   #15
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That would be:
Start -> Settings -> Update & Security -> Windows Update -> Advanced Options

With build 1903 I see that you can pause updates for 7 days here:
Start -> Settings -> Update & Security -> Windows Update

or up to 35 days here:
Start -> Settings -> Update & Security -> Windows Update -> Advanced Options
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Old 06-14-2019, 02:47 AM   #16
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Default Win10 update BS

I do not have a solution but I tell you what works for me.

First, I dump Win10 altogether and go to Linux. I use a distribution called "Mint" and it is so easy it will blow your mind. You can run most all windows software in linux by using applications called "PlayOnLinux" or "Wine." Both work well. I run Excel in full functionality all day long with no problems. I can run Windows based CadCam as well, but there are many linux program's that do almost as much if not more than their windows counterparts. I dual boot as I find in some cases I absolutely must use windows, but I seldom run it. I am probably 99% off windows, and only use it for work. For personal things I use Mint.

Second, I too have tried everything I can find in every forum I can find, and nothing seems to stop this new upgrade. I used to be able to stop it, but as the OP said, those "fixes" do not work now.

This works for me on my Dell laptop: I have found that if I turn the computer off during the upgrade I can stop the upgrade progress. After I turn the PC off I turn back it on and I get a startup error. I let the thing fix itself. I restart and it repairs itself, and it goes right into update again. I turn it off and repeat. After two or three repeats it repairs itself and starts in its former rev status. This has worked for the last two upgrades and I am still on the October 2018 Update (version 1809).

As always, make sure to do a full backup before doing anything such as this. I use Macrium which boots of of a 2G USB stick and backs up to a USB portable drive. I do this routinely every week or two days so that if I have a melt down I do not loose much if any of my work.

Good luck!
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Old 06-14-2019, 02:08 PM   #17
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Re: download over metered - the sentence is clearer on newer builds

On my desktop PC it's: Automatically Download updates, even over metered data connections (charges may apply) - almost leads one to think automatic update downloading is optional

On my laptops it's: Download Updates Over Metered Connections (Extra Charges May Apply)

I see I can pause updates for up to 35 days on one laptop. I think the other laptop allowed pausing for up to 7 days and no option to pause showing up on the desktop PC yet.

edit: just adding - Looks like version 1903 adds pausing updates for up to 35 days.

This solution used to work for us, but went away within the last 30 days, and gave us so little time to try to find a new solution. It appears that every time the users come up with a work around, M quickly does something to make it not work. We started with just he settings working OK, then we had to go through gpedit to get the updates stopped, then it was a registery tweak, an now we are trying the previosly mentioned scheduler modification.
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Old 06-14-2019, 02:29 PM   #18
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Here is a link to one discussion that gave what we are trying now with the scheduling orchestrater.


https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/...c-71ab34b220f0


The post is down the page by drumOrz. Here is what it says.


Quote:
drumz0rz


Found this answer on another question. It worked for me, so I'm copying it here for anyone else who has this problem:

First go here to download PsTools. Extract it to a folder on your desktop.
Open Start and type cmd. Right-click the program and choose to run as administrator.
Navigate to the folder where you extracted the tools by typing "cd C:\Users\Username\Desktop\Pstools", replace Username with your username and Pstools with the folder where you extracted the tools.
When you have navigated to the correct folder, copy the following command without the quotes: "psexec.exe -i -s %windir%\system32\mmc.exe /s taskschd.msc".
Open the command window and right click, choose paste. Press enter.
Navigate to Task Scheduler Library -> Microsoft -> Windows -> UpdateOrchestrator.
Right click the task called Reboot and click on Disable.
The task should now be disabled.



This the first fix that would explain why Update would keep coming back on by itself, as there is a scheduler telling it to and manual starting overrides the automatic update settings.


It might be interesting for someone who knows more about this stuff to see what else is in the PsTools, as this post only takes us to one Windows setting screen addressing this issue, through cmd prompt, and takes off the permissions. The program folder shows lots of other similarly named items that may be other areas that could be made modifiable.
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Old 06-17-2019, 02:48 PM   #19
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We are back from our two week trip so no limits on data now.


We used about 1.9 gig of data in two weeks and 1.3 gig of it went to auto updates the first two days. When that happened we changed our routine which would normally include streaming the local newspaper every day. Our normal use would be a around 1.5 gig a week with most going to the paper streaming.



I continued to read about this whole "automatic maintenance" thing they have on Windows and it certainly may be a big deal in keeping the auto updates under control. Here is what M says about what it is:


Quote:
Maintenance activity refers to an application or process that helps maintain the health and performance of a Windows PC. Maintenance includes keeping Windows and applications up-to-date, checking security, and running scans for malware. Windows Automatic Management (WAM) is a set of enhancements to the Task Scheduler API you can use to link your applications into the Windows maintenance schedule. Specifically, WAM allows you to add activities that require regular scheduling, but do not have exact time requirements. Instead, WAM relies on the operating system to choose the appropriate time to activate the task throughout the day. The system chooses those times based on minimal impact to the user, PC performance, and energy efficiency

It would appear that the maintenance happens on a schedule every day, that you can't turn off, and part of that maintenance is to turn on updates and do updates on other programs and apps besides, which would explain the big uses for Adobe Flash player we saw.


Here is a where the auto maintenance is located and where you can change the time, but not shut it off.



control panel/system and security/security and maintenance/automatic maintenance


There does appear to also be a registry key that can be changed to disable it though: You may not have it though as my desktop does not have it, must have been removed.




HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Schedule\Maintenance


This takes us back to the PsTools to be able to disable it
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Old 06-18-2019, 10:26 AM   #20
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Pausing updates for up to 35 days seems like a good option when on limited mobile data:
pause up to 35 days.JPG


That showed up in Windows version 1903. I have one laptop that is stuck at pre 1809 though. Both 1809 & 1903 fail about 3/4 way into the update on that laptop. All of my other computers are now on 1903. On one, I had to remove a USB drive before it would complete the update.
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