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Old 05-07-2018, 08:38 PM   #1
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Default MSRP Negotiations

I am working to special order a Midwest Automotive Designs 2019 Passage through a local dealer. I have an MSRP from MAD and an offer from the dealer. The offer discounts the MSRP 5.8%. From previous experience buying four other rvís, I know 15-20% seems reasonable. The salesman is telling me MAD does not overinflate their MSRP so there is little room to negotiate. Seems hard to believe they would deviate from the rest of the market practice. The dealer also is low balling my 2015 Airstream Flying Cloud 28T and 2017 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4x4 trade in package. Iíve researched whatís on this forum regarding MSRP discounts. Does anyone have any related recent buying experience? In particular, thoughts or dealings regarding Midwest Automotive? Many thanks.
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Old 05-07-2018, 08:47 PM   #2
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You may want to look at this site, as they have a bunch of Midwest stuff and have been selling them for quite some time.

https://www.lakeregionrvs.com/defaul...tive%20designs

If you click on the the pic of the van in the list, the page that comes up should show you list and offered price. I assume you could also do a bit better than the offered price. The first van looks to be offered at about 20% off.
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:15 PM   #3
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Great reference site. Sure looks like 20% reduction off MSRP for all units. I’m sure when I show this to the dealer, I’ll hear it’s because it’s the end of the model year! Seems like a similar discount for a new model year order that won’t sit on their lot would be possible. Thanks again.
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Old 05-07-2018, 09:20 PM   #4
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I am working to special order a Midwest Automotive Designs 2019 Passage through a local dealer. I have an MSRP from MAD and an offer from the dealer. The offer discounts the MSRP 5.8%. From previous experience buying four other rvís, I know 15-20% seems reasonable. The salesman is telling me MAD does not overinflate their MSRP so there is little room to negotiate. Seems hard to believe they would deviate from the rest of the market practice. The dealer also is low balling my 2015 Airstream Flying Cloud 28T and 2017 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4x4 trade in package. Iíve researched whatís on this forum regarding MSRP discounts. Does anyone have any related recent buying experience? In particular, thoughts or dealings regarding Midwest Automotive? Many thanks.
I looked at a lithium equipped Midwest and a Coachmen Galleria side by side a few months ago and they were similar in build quality which was darn good except for the cabinetry in which the Galleria was the winner. I would out-the-door price both of them. I don't know what discounts from MSRP are available for Midwest. MHSRV sells Gallerias for 25 - 29% discount. If your interest is in the lithium and/or 4WD options it might be worth waiting a while until supply meets demand.
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Old 05-07-2018, 11:38 PM   #5
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If you're wanting a Sprinter, I'd hold off until the Era is introduced with the Volta lithium system. It's superior in every way to the Xantrax system that Coachmen is using.

Era has seen many improvements on the interior, and should be able to house the largest Volta battery without issue - 12kw-h!
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Old 05-08-2018, 12:37 AM   #6
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If you're wanting a Sprinter, I'd hold off until the Era is introduced with the Volta lithium system. It's superior in every way to the Xantrax system that Coachmen is using.

Era has seen many improvements on the interior, and should be able to house the largest Volta battery without issue - 12kw-h!
Would you also delay until the build is on the later generation Sprinter?

With respect to charging parameters, the Volta system is superior to the Xantrex system. Battery AH is a little higher with the Voltrex and at 48 Volts recharging is certainly faster, but both systems are hands above anything else available and I think that for practical purposes either setup would satisfy even power hungry boondockers. Undoubtedly Mercedes would prefer to see the Voltas on their Srinters because of the decrease in engine idle run time required for battery recharging. The Xantrex inverter/charger looks very well designed and the abllity to wirelessly monitor and program it is a real plus. What does Volta use for the inverter/charger and can it communicate wirelessly like the Xantrex?
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Old 05-08-2018, 01:09 AM   #7
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IMO, the 48 volt alternator and charging system, that won't heat cycle and charges much faster, plus the smaller wires and less heat in the equipment is a very big deal.

Volta is using Sensata inverters and chargers, IIRC, which are really Magnums. They are very good pieces, and I would rate them higher than the Xantrex, but others may not. Things like wireless mean very little to me, as hardwired is just fine, and the Magnum chargers with the right remote have built in battery monitor capability, so lots of experience.
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Old 05-08-2018, 02:46 AM   #8
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Since the Magnum is a networked device, there may be the possibility to add a wireless dongle to the mix. Not sure, but not really a deal breaker for me.

I'd be more interested in a bluetooth dongle for the solar controller. I've been spoiled by my Victron Blue controller and the monitoring and data logging I've been able to do on my phone & laptop.

The battery capacity of the Volta over the Xantrax system is not minor. The Xantrax is using the 600 AH Lithionics battery - that's 480 ah-540ah depending on how you set your limits (80-90 SOC). The Volta battery ends up being over 800 ah of usable capacity. The battery is the 10kw-h model - but WGO is marketing it as 8700 ah useable. Also, a little birdy told me the box has room for another 3 kw module bringing your total over 12 kw.
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Old 05-08-2018, 04:03 AM   #9
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The battery capacity of the Volta over the Xantrax system is not minor. The Xantrax is using the 600 AH Lithionics battery - that's 480 ah-540ah depending on how you set your limits (80-90 SOC). The Volta battery ends up being over 800 ah of usable capacity. The battery is the 10kw-h model - but WGO is marketing it as 8700 ah useable. Also, a little birdy told me the box has room for another 3 kw module bringing your total over 12 kw.
Lithionics said they will supply any ah capacity desired in 160ah increments in either single or split modules so for DIY builders, with regard to ah capacity, there is potentially parity with Pure/Volta. But space limitations makes it unlikely that Coachmen or MidWest would let the buyer opt for any capacity beyond 540-600 ah.
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Old 05-08-2018, 02:50 PM   #10
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Yes, Lithionics can provide modules of various sizes and their BMS allows daisy chaining their batteries. That's often how they handle it in boats (they are big in marine applications) where there are odd, disjointed spaces for storing batteries.

But Coachmen's design scheme (to reduce costs I imagine) is to place the batteries inside the coach. This limits how big they will go with capacity, as you have competing needs for other equipment as well as storage space. The 600 AH lithium block is tightly wedged in where they put it.

The Volta scheme is to put the battery in an insulated and thermally controlled box underneath the van (where a generator would normally reside). They also seem to be having a one-size box, as the one supplied to WGO has room for an additional module in it.

One could argue which design scheme is better - they each have their plusses and minuses. What I think is harder to get past is going 48 volts. It solves a multitude of issues and certainly has some performance benefits.
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