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Old 07-20-2019, 12:39 AM   #1
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Default Which Class B for us?

My wife and I have narrowed down our choices for a Class B to two models:
1. Pleasure Way Lexor FL
2. Winnebago Travato KL
1. We prefer the layout of the Lexor with it's open feel in the back, as well as the superior build quality, but are concerned about how long an air conditioner will really last. We have a dog, plan on taking her with us, and will need to leave her in the RV at times (maybe 3 hours?).
2. Not as excited by the layout or build quality of the Travato, but REALLY love the Pure3 system. I have seen estimates of up to 9 hours a/c without worrying about energy.
We live in a hot humid climate, and although we will be traveling around, we still expect staying in hot and possibly humid conditions, so want to keep comfortable at night and keep the dog safe when she's alone.
Any suggestions, thoughts, concerns, happy tales, or supportive comments?
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:21 AM   #2
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Another AC factor to consider if you are completely dependent on AC is the noise level. Our AC unit is too loud to use comfortably for more than short periods of time even if it could run for extended periods on the batteries.

Personally, if I needed a Class B that was totally dependent on AC use in a hot climate with no shore power, I would feel forced to work with a company like Advanced RV to design a van with a high level of insulation, quiet AC and a well designed and well tested big lithium battery system.
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Old 07-20-2019, 07:48 AM   #3
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Consider the Coachmen Beyond 22C. Similar build quality to PW, same open layout in the back, but has big optional Lithium pack, better insulation, and optional quiet, efficient AC. When built on the 2020 Transit chassis, will have significant upgrades to the transmission, dash, and dual swivel seats. PW may offer a Transit based unit next year as well, but probably won't still offer the big battery pack.
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:39 PM   #4
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jrobe - Thanks so much for the information... if I'm repeating myself it's because the forum somehow logged me out, so not sure if anything was posted!
We looked at Advanced RV, but aren't sold on the benefits/cost ratio of diesel, so are limiting ourselves to gas guzzlers. We didn't consider the noise level for the a/c at all, especially at night in a hot and humid climate. Will need to factor that in on our buying decision.
Thanks again!
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Old 07-20-2019, 03:43 PM   #5
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mtmdatlanta - We were limiting ourselves to under 21' (a big limitation I am finding out!!), but after looking at the Coachman, a reconsideration is in our future! Didn't find a dealer near us, but will keep looking and trying to find out prices. Our one issue with the length is we are not so much the go out in the middle of nowhere type of travelers. We like cities, towns, and populations, with museums and other activities, so driving something over 22' is a little daunting. It is only about a foot or so longer than the Lexor or Travato, but still...

I heard something about Transit and PW, but nothing specific. And you are right about the battery system... it is the one thing holding us back.

Thanks again!
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Old 07-21-2019, 01:56 PM   #6
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Do what I did. Buy the Travato and install the Advanced RV AC! It’s great and the dog loves it. I’ve had mine two months and 12000 miles and not one problem. Congrats to Winnebago. I think I got real value and build quality is excellent, probably because it wasn’t built in Elkhart county!
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Old 07-21-2019, 04:25 PM   #7
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Buy the Travato and install the Advanced RV AC!
Just need a clarification... Are you saying you bought the A/C designed for an Advanced RV and had them install it in your Travato? Or is this unit available retail and you bought it and had Winnebago or someone else install it?

Thanks for the input!
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Old 07-21-2019, 04:33 PM   #8
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Yes, they will sell it and ship it to you for you to get installed or install it for about $400 more money. I installed mine as it was simple. They will charge you OH sales tax too.
Hope this helps.
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Old 07-21-2019, 04:40 PM   #9
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There was a brief period when the ARV unit was the only game in town when it came to quiet A/C units. However, the Coleman NDQ is now a credible contender, and at a much lower cost:

http://www.classbforum.com/forums/f5...-a-c-9266.html

Does anybody have any objective data concerning a direct comparison between these two alternatives?
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Old 07-21-2019, 07:16 PM   #10
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This is Advanced RV's upfitter resources site where you can buy many things they have developed and install on their RVs that anyone can benefit, including the air conditioner.

https://www.upfittersresource.com
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrobe View Post
Another AC factor to consider if you are completely dependent on AC is the noise level. Our AC unit is too loud to use comfortably for more than short periods of time even if it could run for extended periods on the batteries.

Personally, if I needed a Class B that was totally dependent on AC use in a hot climate with no shore power, I would feel forced to work with a company like Advanced RV to design a van with a high level of insulation, quiet AC and a well designed and well tested big lithium battery system.
Advanced RV will replace your A/C in a unit you have already purchased from somewhere else. I saw a video from Advanced RV where they did this exact thing.
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Old 07-22-2019, 12:27 PM   #12
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Yes, they will sell it and ship it to you for you to get installed or install it for about $400 more money. I installed mine as it was simple. They will charge you OH sales tax too.
Hope this helps.
Did ARV ever answer the danged question about the inrush current that their unit requires? Anywhere, to anyone?

Directly (via me contacting them by both phone and email) and indirectly (via me asking on YouTube and forums), they simply did not respond to that question, strongly suggesting that they don't have data.

I need to know how much current it requires on actuation, in order to determine whether it can be made compatible with my rig. We have a DIY lithium (300 AH) and 2,000 W Xantrex inverter. We can run our OEM 11,000 BTU (a Dometic dinosaur, but reliable - knock wood) off the battery, with the intercession of an EasyStart. But I don't know if I could do the same with ARV's unit.
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Old 07-22-2019, 01:53 PM   #13
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Advanced RV (ARV) has installed their air conditioners on Winnebago Travatos and the promaster, Lance, owned the FitRV people, James and Stefany. That I know of. You can look at the specs of those units and maybe judge. The two people who may know that you have to get to are Frank Kolasinski, the tech rep for ARV owners or Fred Ahlgren, the part time retired tech consultant who develops systems for ARV. He is FredA on this forum if he still participates. Fred built his own DIY T1N Sprinter which was probably the most sophisticated at the time (circa 2006) and then had ARV build "Gustav" which mostly duplicated his DIY plan.
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Old 07-22-2019, 02:53 PM   #14
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Advanced RV (ARV) has installed their air conditioners on Winnebago Travatos and the promaster, Lance.... You can look at the specs of those units and maybe judge. The two people who may know that you have to get to are Frank Kolasinski, the tech rep for ARV owners or Fred Ahlgren, ....
Good info.

(1) I have looked at the available info, including Lance's, and for my assessment purposes, it was inconclusive.

(2) I've left VM and email for Frank in the past - no reply.

(3) Fred Ahlgren does not seem to have any contact information on the internet (I have seen him mentioned in a half-dozen places including YouTube, but without contact info). He is an older gentleman and maybe he does not use a lot of our current platforms regularly.

It was just about a year ago when I posted my question about inrush current on ARV's YouTube video describing this new unit. ARV responded to a different question I had about construction standards, but not to the electrical question.
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Old 07-22-2019, 04:11 PM   #15
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Good info.

(3) Fred Ahlgren does not seem to have any contact information on the internet (I have seen him mentioned in a half-dozen places including YouTube, but without contact info). He is an older gentleman and maybe he does not use a lot of our current platforms regularly.

It was just about a year ago when I posted my question about inrush current on ARV's YouTube video describing this new unit. ARV responded to a different question I had about construction standards, but not to the electrical question.
Fred is as savvy as you and I on social media. I think he would take exception with the implied term "older gentlemen". As I mentioned, he is or was FredA in this group. Perhaps, he is busy or just doesn't care to put his time in social media.

As to asking on a YouTube video it is not a very good platform for getting answers, my experience is it is hit or miss, and is not an official way to communicate.

Could be "inrush current" is a confusing term to answer? I'm an electrical dyslexic so I wouldn't know. FredA told me that once.
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Old 07-23-2019, 11:13 AM   #16
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Fred is as savvy as you and I on social media. I think he would take exception with the implied term "older gentlemen". As I mentioned, he is or was FredA in this group. Perhaps, he is busy or just doesn't care to put his time in social media.

As to asking on a YouTube video it is not a very good platform for getting answers, my experience is it is hit or miss, and is not an official way to communicate.

Could be "inrush current" is a confusing term to answer? I'm an electrical dyslexic so I wouldn't know. FredA told me that once.
(3) No confusion to its definition (copied from the internet): "Inrush current is the instantaneous high input current drawn by a power supply or electrical equipment at turn-on. This arises due to the high initial currents required to charge the capacitors and inductors or transformers. The inrush current is also known as the switch–on surge, or the input surge current."

(2) YouTube is monitored by them - ARV answered my adjacent question promptly on YouTube. Just not the electrical question. They saw, and did not respond.

(1) Take exception to a polite term such as "older gentleman"? Why on earth?! Here's a screengrab of Neundorfer introducing Alghren on a vid. His snow-white hair puts him squarely beyond the "spring chicken" realm, I'm afraid.



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Old 07-23-2019, 04:16 PM   #17
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Have you seen my hair? It is as white as you can get and started in college.

It was the implication. What does older have to do with anything?

I could suggest you just don't have the savvy to seek out the answer though I gave you hints to do so. I suspect you didn't want ARV's air conditioner anyway long before you made your criticisms.
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Old 07-23-2019, 06:04 PM   #18
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Have you seen my hair? It is as white as you can get and started in college.

It was the implication. What does older have to do with anything?

I could suggest you just don't have the savvy to seek out the answer though I gave you hints to do so. I suspect you didn't want ARV's air conditioner anyway long before you made your criticisms.
So corresponding directly with admin Tricia Eller (TriciaE@advanced-rv.com, published email) and with Frank himself at ARV doesn't count as "savvy"?

Next question is obvious: What does "savvy" mean to you?

You might want to re-verify poster identities before you make competency accusations. My husband and I have one of the most unusual custom lithium systems in operation today. My husband is a licensed engineer and he designed it himself. I don't know anyone with better electrical or mechanical skills. Which is exactly the reason why we know that we have to determine the inrush current requirement before we could even consider purchasing ARV's product or their installation services.

FACT: Advanced RV either could not answer my question, or chose not to, perhaps because they perceived that it would have publicly disclosed something of their market advantage.

^^ It's just a fact, not an indictment. If they choose not to answer customers' questions of that regard, that is their own business.

But here's the thing: If ARV wishes to sell this a/c unit to DIYers with unique electrical systems, they are going to have to address the inrush current at some point. Maybe they do, privately, with customers who are already under contract and perhaps they have even signed NDAs with those customers - I have no idea because we never got that far, because they could not answer my simple question.

Here below is one of the earlier posts I made on this issue almost a year and a half ago (source; there are many other forum threads on this topic). I did continue to dig for more information after that posting and after hitting a brick wall with ARV. However, I found nothing available. ARV being the sole supplier in North America at that time (and perhaps still), technical data were not published.



As for your question about what age has to do with it, the statistics are clear on the fact that older people tend to use the internet less. I could begin posting graphs to support that, but why do that? You can look that stuff up if you wish.
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Old 07-23-2019, 06:29 PM   #19
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Yes, they will sell it and ship it to you for you to get installed or install it for about $400 more money. I installed mine as it was simple. They will charge you OH sales tax too.
Hope this helps.
Hi, thanks a lot for your well update. and i will take same service form mine.

one more issue please any delivery charge??
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Old 07-25-2019, 05:17 PM   #20
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Winnebago's head of motorized RV's announced this week at the Grand National Rally a new Class C and Class B will be built around the all new 2020 Ford Transit chassis.

Also, Winnebago is currently installing the quieter Mach 10 NDQ in their products that previously used the base Mach 10. We had the NDQ installed at the Airxcel factory this summer on our Travato for $750 total. Makes a big difference on low cool, plus the fan will now shut off when the temperature setting is reached, just like the A/C in your home. Also more energy efficient.
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