Roadtrek Chevrolet Popular 190 Max Tire Size?

[Deano]

If the aluminum wheels are the correct offset then they should be OK. If not, the incorrect offset negatively affects the front end geometry and may affect wheel bearings as well.

If not, the Chevy wheel is available from several sources including:

https://www.stockwheels.com/Chevrole...5198-Wheel-Rim

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by daytonabeachbum

I wonder if someone could answer a question about the optional aluminum wheels that came on my 2007 190V Roadtrek, which has 7" wide wheels?

Are you sure that the wheels you have are 7" in width? Are they the original wheels?

[Roadtreker357]

Originally Posted by daytonabeachbum

If it is required to go to a steel wheel, what year Silverado do I look for? Thanks in advance

The steel wheels I purchased are for a Chevy 2500HD. early 2000's. They are 16” x 7”, whereas the original AR wheel is 16” x 6.5”. This wider wheel will take a 265 tire. This steel wheel has indented scallops between each large hole in the wheel. Each 265 Michelin tire has a rated capacity of 373# more than the 245 tire. This will provide a larger margin of safety when towing when it is time to replace our existing tires.

The steel wheels did not come with valve stems, lugnuts, or the decorative wheel center cover. Local parts stores did not have adequate metal valve stems. Metal valve stems and lug nuts were obtained from the local Chevy dealer. Not cheap, but less hassle than trying to find the lug nuts in a salvage yard. The lugnuts have to be the right ones for the wheel and for the decorative center cover. I found the decorative wheel center cover with an internet search.

[daytonabeachbum]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Are you sure that the wheels you have are 7" in width? Are they the original wheels?

Yes, they are the original wheels. I'll double-check the size tomorrow. I believe they may have a different offset though. Do you know what the standard offset is?

[Deano]

Originally Posted by daytonabeachbum

Yes, they are the original wheels. I'll double-check the size tomorrow. I believe they may have a different offset though. Do you know what the standard offset is?

Quoted from a post by the expert "Booster".
"Stock Chevy wheels on the vans are at +28mm and the AR wheels that many of the converters like Roadtrek used are at -6MM for offset. That makes the AR wheel move outboard by nearly 1 3/8" on each wheel. A zero offset wheel is a bit under 1 1/8" outboard of a stock wheel".
And in my opinion, not close enough to the correct offset.

[peteco]

Originally Posted by Deano

Response to Roadtreker357 question.

I put the tire cover on backwards, so the side toward the van is covered and the upright is exposed except it is covered by the OE fiberglass cover.

Good idea to keep tire fully covered. Ozone can eat away at a tire even when not exposed to the sun. Learned this when I found cracking on the side of the tire not facing the sun. Now I put 303 protectant on the non-sun side when I rotate tires or when under the vehicle for other reasons. 303 every month on the sun side. 303 works great to prevent cracking.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by daytonabeachbum

Yes, they are the original wheels. I'll double-check the size tomorrow. I believe they may have a different offset though. Do you know what the standard offset is?

The aluminum wheels supplied by Roadtrek have a -6 mm offset. The stock Chevy steel wheel has a +28 mm offset. The link below has a comprehensive discussion regarding this.

https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...vy-1985-2.html

[daytonabeachbum]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

The aluminum wheels supplied by Roadtrek have a -6 mm offset. The stock Chevy steel wheel has a +28 mm offset. The link below has a comprehensive discussion regarding this.

https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...vy-1985-2.html

Thanks, I think this will answer my question and probable I will look for new wheels first

[Stevemo]

Now that I have a bit more time I'll explain my thought process a bit more. I was genuinely planning to go with taller tires but as you can see I abandoned the idea mainly due to spare tire storage.

I do not think there is a problem with the American Racing wheels damaging the front wheel bearings. I have 100,000 miles on mine with no problems so they will last as long as a vehicle with factory wheels.
There have been documented problems with the 210s destroying rear axles because of the light duty axles that were used sometime after 2004. I have a 2004 Popular 190 with a full floating rear axle so I'm ok with that issue.

The rear tire stowage and the tire carrier on my 2004 Popular 190 are designed for the LT245/75R16. I tow an enclosed trailer from time to time so I do not have my rear tire carrier attached to the van. That means I need to stick the spare tire in under the bed but I admit that I don't always bring it with me. I will buy a wheel spacer to accommodate the American Racing wheel now that I know it can't attach to the tire carrier without one. I wouldn't want to be in a situation where I had to put a tire in the front portion of the van. Putting the tire in the trailer can work but sometimes I tow loaded with the van one way and shunt the trailer back with a different vehicle when empty. It gets complicated keeping track of the spare tire so it needs to fit in the van.

My van has a significant suspension lift. Safe cruising speed has already been dropped 5 MPH with the wide stance so I'm hesitant to change the stance. Going with a 1" taller tire wouldn't be a big deal in my mind.

I did not realize that the American Racing wheels are 7" wide. The Roadtrek nameplate on my van says it has 6.5" wheels so I didn't think it was an option to go with 265s but as you can see I had already convince myself I didn't want to go that route anyway.

The tires are being installed tomorrow and the stock size I picked seemed readily available.

[booster]

Originally Posted by daytonabeachbum

I wonder if someone could answer a question about the optional aluminum wheels that came on my 2007 190V Roadtrek, which has 7" wide wheels? I am planning on installing LT 265 MICHELIN Agilis CrossClimate on my vehicle. I understand that my wheels may have a different offset than the steel Silverado steel wheels. Is there a problem and what is the problem with using this aluminum wheel? If it is required to go to a steel wheel, what year Silverado do I look for? Thanks in advance

This is the Cliff's notes version on the discussion about offset, but there are lots of further details in many discussions here on the forum.


I assume you know that offset is the distance from the centerline of wheel to the centerline of the tire. Positive offset moves the tire inboard and negative offset moves the tire outboard of the wheel centerline. The OEM van wheels are +28mm so the tire is move inboard of wheel center to get the tire in the right position to rotate in the designed arc around the balljoints when you turn and center the tire between the two front wheel bearings. These dimensions determine the scuff radius, which is best to look up the definition and pics for, and scuff radius is what keeps the tires from scuffing and dragging on turns. Changing offset changes scuff radius so can cause scuffing and loss of traction in turns.



The other thing is that the offset/ball joint relationship determines how far the tires move for and aft as you turn. Less positive/more negative moves the tire outboard and make it move more for and aft so more likely to contact the front or rear wheelwell or lip.


The stock steel wheels on the vans are +28mm offset and the AR aluminum wheels that Roadtrek put on are -6mm offset, so the tires move out about 1 3/8" on each side. This is a lot of offset change and will make the tires scuff. It can be especially easy to see if you back up on clean concrete and turn sharply a few times. You will leave tire marks all over the concrete from the scuffing/dragging. Our driveway would look like we had a burnout contest after I backed into the hard to line up garage. I changed to stock offset +28mm wheels to get the7" width needed for the 265 tires and no more tire marks, none at all.


The particular Silverado wheel is about the only correct offset wheel available in wide enough for the 265 tires, AFAIK, in 16" size. You can get a factory Silverado wheel that is wide enough and correct offset in 17" but you give up some load capacity compared to 1". They are aluminum, so a possibility if that is important. You go to 265-70-17 tires on them which have the same rolling radius as the 265-75-16 tires.



As to your case, it might or might not clear the fender lips with the 265 tires and AR wheels. Variations and tolerances are pretty loose on the body on frame designs so the front and back gaps from the wheel well lip to tire can vary a lot. On our 2007, they probably would have not hit on the left front, but would have hit on the right front rear off the wheel well.


It is a tough choice and many find it hard to give up the nice AR wheels for a plain steel wheel. Others want to get back to the best steering and handling geometry they can, and reduce wheel bearing load by getting factory offset wheels. I am in the second category, and would not go back to the big negative change in offset but others would not see it the same way. If increasing load capacity is not the major concern, the 17" aluminum Silverado wheels might be a good compromise.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by Stevemo

There have been documented problems with the 210s destroying rear axles because of the light duty axles that were used sometime after 2004. I have a 2004 Popular 190 with a full floating rear axle so I'm ok with that issue.

I believe that in 2004 for the 210, RT had a towing option that provided a Dana 70 axle in lieu of the Dana 60. I think that subsequently, RT dropped the option in favor of the Dana 60HD. Can you provide a source for documented 210 axle failures? Thanks.

[daytonabeachbum]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

I believe that in 2004 for the 210, RT had a towing option that provided a Dana 70 axle in lieu of the Dana 60. I think that subsequently, RT dropped the option in favor of the Dana 60HD. Can you provide a source for documented 210 axle failures? Thanks.

My 2007 190V with 2006 Chev chassis had a failure of the original Dana 60 rear axle. I replaced it with a Dana 70 full floating. The ring and pinion was worn out in the Dana 60HD

[peteco]

Originally Posted by daytonabeachbum

My 2007 190V with 2006 Chev chassis had a failure of the original Dana 60 rear axle. I replaced it with a Dana 70 full floating. The ring and pinion was worn out in the Dana 60HD

At how many miles?

[daytonabeachbum]

Originally Posted by peteco

At how many miles?

At 75,000 miles

[daytonabeachbum]

My understanding of the axle situation is that the Dana 70 was the standard axle, but if you ordered positraction you got the Dana 60. No positraction was available for the Dana 70. Major problems arise if you tow a trailer with the Dana 60. I flat tow a small 4 X 4.

[booster]

Lots of confusing information here on the Dana rear axles. This is for up to more recent Chevies that might have gone to AA axles, so only for Dana axles.


The OEM stock rear axle for the Roadtreks that DON'T have the trailer tow package is the Dana Super 60, or 60s in shorthand many places. It is a beefed up for higher capacity Dana 60 with 9.75" ring gear, cast steel rear cover to add stiffness, and maybe some other changes. It is rated at 6080# which is the same as the stock rear tires on the Chevy Roadtreks. It is a semi floating axle which means the axles go through and outboard wheel bearing and the wheels attach to the axle. In this version the axle itself is the inner bearing race for the wheel bearings so if you eat a bearing, you are also out an axle. Worst case is the axle overheats and breaks, and in that case the wheel can completely separate from the van. The 60s axle hubs run very hot, even hot enough to heat the tires and increase the tire pressure, according to what we tested when we had a 60s in our 07 190P.


The other Dana used is the Dana Super 70, or 70s in shorthand. It is a beefed up Dana 70, but doesn't appear to be as built up as a Dana 70HD from all I could find. It has a 10.5" ring gear and cast steel cover to improve rigidity. In Roadtreks that also came with a Govlock locking setup for better traction. In Roadtreks they are also rated at 6080#, but that is only because the tires are only rated that high. Best information I could find is that they are about an 8000# capable axle. The 70s is a full floating rear axle, so the axle shafts do not connect to the wheels at all and only drive hubs on each side. The hubs drive the wheels and are supported by the rear axle housing so no load on the axles except rotation. The hubs contain two massive tapered roller bearings that straddle the wheel center, much like front wheel bearing do. They run much, much cooler, and if the axle breaks the wheel will not separate from the van.



There really is no comparison of the 60s and 70s, IMO, as the 70s is much more capable in every way.


We changed out our 60s for 70s after the second failure of the 60s in the first 20K miles. I put in a 70s that had 85K miles, IIRC, and I changed the seals and such plus had a local driveline shop adjust the contact patch and backlash. It has over 30K on it with our van, runs silently, cooler, and doesn't dirty the oil nearly as quickly. Hubs no run same temp as the fronts.


So, bottom line is that the 70s was not the standard axle in Roadtreks, but was part of the towing option parts which also including a transmission cooler. The 60s was the standard axle. Around the time of our 07 there was a big quality issue with 60s units with a large amount of them failing multiple times due to bad housings so even rebuilding would not fix them. That is what we had and it gave us a chance to upgrade to the 70s.

[booster]

As for the positraction/locker for the 70s vs 60s vs availability, GM was pretty weird on that. AFAIK, you can't really get a gov lock for either of them from anyone other than GM unless you buy a rebuilt unit, which are available at least for the 70s. These are oddball increased capacity units, so aftermarket parts not readily available unless they are common to other parts. AFAIK, there was never a 60s with a govlock and never a 70s without one in Roadtreks.

[cruising7388]

Originally Posted by booster

So, bottom line is that the 70s was not the standard axle in Roadtreks, but was part of the towing option parts which also including a transmission cooler. The 60s was the standard axle. Around the time of our 07 there was a big quality issue with 60s units with a large amount of them failing multiple times due to bad housings so even rebuilding would not fix them. That is what we had and it gave us a chance to upgrade to the 70s.

Thanks for the comprehensive recap. The 60S has a rating of 6084 which replicates a pair of 3042 E rated tires which makes me wonder whether it is an engineered rating or if it was just plugged into the 60S ratings to fill in the blanks. What is the rating on the 70S?

As you point out, the 70S is clearly the beefier choice but if you are dealing with 60S production after 2010 on a RT that isn't towing a vehicle, has there been a significant incidence of axle failure or for that matter, transmission failure?

[booster]

Originally Posted by cruising7388

Thanks for the comprehensive recap. The 60S has a rating of 6084 which replicates a pair of 3042 E rated tires which makes me wonder whether it is an engineered rating or if it was just plugged into the 60S ratings to fill in the blanks. What is the rating on the 70S?

As you point out, the 70S is clearly the beefier choice but if you are dealing with 60S production after 2010 on a RT that isn't towing a vehicle, has there been a significant incidence of axle failure or for that matter, transmission failure?

As I mentioned the ratings were likely set to the tire limits for both axles. My guess is that GM had to go to Dana to get them to rate the 60s that high as it started out as a car axle in big block rear drive cars so much higher rating than it had as a Dana 60. My guess is that the same thing happened with the 70s but it would be a no brainer for Dana or GM to rate it at 6084 as it is way stronger than that. As I mentioned above, the 70s is probably about an 8K axle, maybe a bit less or more. I couldn't find any official Dana non GM ratings for it, but based on a regular Dana 70 and a regular Dana 70HD, that seems reasonable.


Even on the 60s before 2010 we haven't seen wholesale failures of them, except for the 2007 ones like ours. We have seen failures, though, and even wheel separations, so they really are kind of marginal, especially for 210s. I also believe they contribute to the blowout rate on rear tires because they put so much heat into the rear tires, which I also think is made worse by having aluminum wheels which conduct more heat and also most have the big negative offset shift from stock which makes the bearing run hotter.


The later units with the 6 speeds may be American Axle or may be Dana, but they do also have, IIRC, 3.42 ratio gears vs the 4.10 in most of the class b's. (Pleasureway may have done at least some 3.73 gears, I think). If folks that have the later ones are under them sometime, it would be interesting to look for ID marks on them. I think all the Dana axles have it on the cover and there should be a sticker on the axle tube rear close the driver side wheel, if it has survived. I haven't watched really closely be year, so no information on the that, but it is likely that the AA axles would also probably be semifloating as stock and full floating as optional and also with bigger ring gear.

[Stevemo]

My van has the 70S with an open differential (GT4) and as you can see the rating is the same at 6084 which matches the tires. In theory, the tires are rated for it so they should be able to do the job as long as you put your vehicle across a scale to confirm you are within limits from time to time. I don't know what the safety margin is for tires or how much it varies by manufacturer.
I would be surprised if any of the 170s or 190s came without the trailer hitch because there is a shroud attached to it that protects parts of the propane system on the passenger side.
My van also has the KD1 transmission cooler but it is nothing more than the cooler built into the radiator. I added the Dorman 918-290 as mentioned. https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-97695-918-290.aspx
The transmission cooler hose selection on these vans is a bit nutty, you may want to buy all types of hoses available and then return the ones you don't use. The beauty of this cooler and the factory lines associated with it is that you can get nice steel hoses all of the way to the front of your vehicle without a bunch of loose rubber hose. They do make plug-in hose barb adapters that you can use to tie in an additional external cooler using this setup.