Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 08-02-2017, 02:14 AM   #421
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: CA
Posts: 1,668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedRyno View Post
I'm pretty sure Jim Hammil also said that with all the EckoTreks offline, the inverter/converter will not be powered by shore power.
That's correct. If just the battery disconnect switch is "off", the converter will still operate if the inverter is on,(at least on our coach) but if the lithiums are switched off, the converter doesn't operate because the inverter can't power up.
cruising7388 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 12:15 PM   #422
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,483
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerrym51 View Post
i have read several people with voltstart issues. I have read several people without voltstart issues. I have read several people with ecotrek issues-i have read several people without ecotrek issues.

I read the facebook forums a lot-because i'm retired and our medical issues stop us from lot of touring not camping-which is the reason we got the roadtrek in the first place.

Be that as it may -the biggest issue i see is that no matter how much time passes the same issues keep cropping up no matter when they are built by roadtrek.

it seems the same haphazard problems over and over. some have no issues
with ecotrek /voltstart-and some are disasters. beats me why time passing does not cut the issues down
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruising7388 View Post
I can't find any posts reporting Voltstart problems, which is not to say they don't exist, but I would like to see some evidence.

What is an "ecotrek issue"?


Some saw this coming from way back.



__________________
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 02:21 PM   #423
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: WA
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
Some saw this coming from way back.



One of the reasons I didn't order Voltstart and don't have it.
WingedRyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 03:09 PM   #424
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,058
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedRyno View Post
One of the reasons I didn't order Voltstart and don't have it.
Are you on your way home?
gerrym51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 04:05 PM   #425
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: WA
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerrym51 View Post
Are you on your way home?
Nope, still at dealership. They got the new Balmar and it's hooked up and showing nice red lights and codes and such. It has one display cycle that shows the lithium battery voltage, and another voltage display that is apparently what the regulator is set to charge the batteries to.

The readout of lithium voltage on one eckotrek showed 12.9 and the "to" value showed 14.0. After about ten minutes of idling the engine, however, the lithium battery voltage dropped to 12.8 so it's not charging.

Working with Nations and Balmar and RT to try to figure this out.
WingedRyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 04:15 PM   #426
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: WA
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedRyno View Post
Nope, still at dealership. They got the new Balmar and it's hooked up and showing nice red lights and codes and such. It has one display cycle that shows the lithium battery voltage, and another voltage display that is apparently what the regulator is set to charge the batteries to.

The readout of lithium voltage on one eckotrek showed 12.9 and the "to" value showed 14.0. After about ten minutes of idling the engine, however, the lithium battery voltage dropped to 12.8 so it's not charging.

Working with Nations and Balmar and RT to try to figure this out.
We then turned on all batteries and it showed 13.2 (the other one was the weakest) and tried that but no difference.

But after fifteen minutes or so we turned the original one (that was reading 12.9) on and reset it and it now reads 13.1 so the guys are thinking it might be charging actually.
WingedRyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 04:16 PM   #427
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,058
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedRyno View Post
Nope, still at dealership. They got the new Balmar and it's hooked up and showing nice red lights and codes and such. It has one display cycle that shows the lithium battery voltage, and another voltage display that is apparently what the regulator is set to charge the batteries to.

The readout of lithium voltage on one eckotrek showed 12.9 and the "to" value showed 14.0. After about ten minutes of idling the engine, however, the lithium battery voltage dropped to 12.8 so it's not charging.

Working with Nations and Balmar and RT to try to figure this out.

good luck and good luck again
gerrym51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 04:35 PM   #428
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 12,306
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedRyno View Post
We then turned on all batteries and it showed 13.2 (the other one was the weakest) and tried that but no difference.

But after fifteen minutes or so we turned the original one (that was reading 12.9) on and reset it and it now reads 13.1 so the guys are thinking it might be charging actually.
Don't these guys have a clamp on ammeter, so they can actually tell if it is charging or not? If not, they don't know what they are doing, IMO.

Is the alternator getting hot, it should?
booster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 04:36 PM   #429
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: WA
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedRyno View Post
Nope, still at dealership. They got the new Balmar and it's hooked up and showing nice red lights and codes and such. It has one display cycle that shows the lithium battery voltage, and another voltage display that is apparently what the regulator is set to charge the batteries to.

The readout of lithium voltage on one eckotrek showed 12.9 and the "to" value showed 14.0. After about ten minutes of idling the engine, however, the lithium battery voltage dropped to 12.8 so it's not charging.

Working with Nations and Balmar and RT to try to figure this out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedRyno View Post
We then turned on all batteries and it showed 13.2 (the other one was the weakest) and tried that but no difference.

But after fifteen minutes or so we turned the original one (that was reading 12.9) on and reset it and it now reads 13.1 so the guys are thinking it might be charging actually.
For all the Balmar fans, here is video of its display while idling and hooked up to this 1600 amp hour lithium rig.

WingedRyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 05:07 PM   #430
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,398
Default

[QUOTE=WingedRyno;60742]For all the Balmar fans, here is video of its display while idling and hooked up to this 1600 amp hour lithium rig.

Thanks.

Be careful, though. That video is NOT of the Balmar MC-614. You can tell because the 614 is potted and the shown device is not. The display looks similar, but it may or may not be identical.
__________________
Now: 2022 Fully-custom buildout (Ford Transit EcoBoost AWD)
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 05:14 PM   #431
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: WA
Posts: 202
Default

[QUOTE=avanti;60744]
Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedRyno View Post
For all the Balmar fans, here is video of its display while idling and hooked up to this 1600 amp hour lithium rig.

Thanks.

Be careful, though. That video is NOT of the Balmar MC-614. You can tell because the 614 is potted and the shown device is not. The display looks similar, but it may or may not be identical.
The manual/pamphlet they have that apparently came with the unit today in the FedEx says it's a MC-614.
WingedRyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 05:33 PM   #432
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,058
Default

[QUOTE=WingedRyno;60745]
Quote:
Originally Posted by avanti View Post

The manual/pamphlet they have that apparently came with the unit today in the FedEx says it's a MC-614.

I googled it. there appears to be more than one mc-614

some seem to have letters after them.

One is called marine also.

they may be different looking
gerrym51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 05:38 PM   #433
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,398
Default

Hmmm. Perhaps the one in the video IS potted, but the potting is transparent. Mine is not:

IMG_6093.jpg
__________________
Now: 2022 Fully-custom buildout (Ford Transit EcoBoost AWD)
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 06:31 PM   #434
Platinum Member
 
GeorgeRa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 3,233
Default Wow, what a saga.

It is a scandalous saga, troubleshooting by sparking, no troubleshooting tree, fixing by parts replacement, if this would be my case I would run and run fast.

If there is no troubleshooting guide, at least an electrical schematic could lead any capable person to diagnosis. Lithium batteries are not a bleeding edge technology anymore but it can be made at the bleeding edge level if not design properly for the full product lifecycle from inception, design, manufacturing, maintenance, troubleshooting and disposal.

I don’t know if RT issues are lack of engineering or someone think they have more IP than they truly have. Hopefully this thread will gain some visibility by Hymer and contribute to a complete RT management shakeout from top down but primarily on the top.
GeorgeRa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 06:36 PM   #435
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,483
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeRa View Post
It is an scandalous saga, troubleshooting by sparking, no troubleshooting tree, fixing by parts replacement, if this would be my case I would run and run fast.

If there is no troubleshooting guide, at least an electrical schematic could lead any capable person to diagnosis. Lithium batteries are not a bleeding edge technology anymore but it can be made at the bleeding edge level if not design properly for the full product lifecycle from inception, design, manufacturing, maintenance, troubleshooting and disposal.

I don’t know if RT issues are lack of engineering or someone think they have more IP than they truly have. Hopefully this thread will gain some visibility by Hymer and contribute to a complete RT management shakeout from top down but primarily on the top.
+1

__________________
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 06:38 PM   #436
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: WA
Posts: 194
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeRa View Post
It is an scandalous saga, troubleshooting by sparking, no troubleshooting tree, fixing by parts replacement, if this would be my case I would run and run fast.
Reading this, my thoughts instantly went to how much trouble (time, money, and inconvenience) they'll have in a few years when it comes time to make repairs to the electrical system.

I still think upgrading a basic B is the most reliable and cost effective way to get the all-electric B experience a lot of us want.
__________________
User formerly known as Transit
2017 Trend 23L
2011 13' Scamp
B Eventually is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 06:55 PM   #437
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 12,306
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeRa View Post
It is an scandalous saga, troubleshooting by sparking, no troubleshooting tree, fixing by parts replacement, if this would be my case I would run and run fast.

If there is no troubleshooting guide, at least an electrical schematic could lead any capable person to diagnosis. Lithium batteries are not a bleeding edge technology anymore but it can be made at the bleeding edge level if not design properly for the full product lifecycle from inception, design, manufacturing, maintenance, troubleshooting and disposal.

I don’t know if RT issues are lack of engineering or someone think they have more IP than they truly have. Hopefully this thread will gain some visibility by Hymer and contribute to a complete RT management shakeout from top down but primarily on the top.
I totally agree, and would add their apparent dismal support and/or training for the dealer techs. How can it be possible that the tech doesn't know how to check if an alternator is sending current to the batteries? A 30 second Google search can teach you that, but this poor guy is trying to troubleshoot problems with a complex system with no documentation, and likely no decent help from Roadtrek.

When many of us complain of the lack of monitoring and diagnostics in the Roadtrek systems, we are often told that "most" folks wouldn't know how, or want, to use them, which may or may not be true. But, having those items in place would severely shorten the problems for the techs that have to fix these things. I would guess essentially every manufacturer of electrical stuff of this complexity, except Roadtrek, has a method to see performance or faults. It seems bizarre that the microwave in a Roadtrek has more diagnostics than the much more complicated power system.

I think Hymer has somehow fallen for the Roadtrek historical pattern of sending out bad stuff, with plans to fix it at the dealer, so it is out of the factory and paid for quickly. 50 years ago the the auto manufacturers did the same thing, but the Japanese quickly showed them it was a very flawed business model.
booster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 07:06 PM   #438
BBQ
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: East
Posts: 2,483
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedRyno View Post
I wonder how much more manpower and such it takes to extend two lithium modules to eight lithium modules, or 470W of solar panels to 600W of solar? Warp Core is a little larger but it doesn't seem like a huge jump to me. Perhaps you think they will get rid of lithium and solar altogether?
Oh

__________________
BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 07:39 PM   #439
Site Team
 
avanti's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,398
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeRa View Post
If there is no troubleshooting guide, at least an electrical schematic could lead any capable person to diagnosis.
The Balmar manual has a fairly thorough troubleshooting guide. That might have been a good place for them to have started.

mc-614-manual.pdf
__________________
Now: 2022 Fully-custom buildout (Ford Transit EcoBoost AWD)
Formerly: 2005 Airstream Interstate (Sprinter 2500 T1N)
2014 Great West Vans Legend SE (Sprinter 3500 NCV3 I4)
avanti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2017, 07:39 PM   #440
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: WA
Posts: 202
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ View Post
Oh

No need for you to drag up an old post and then eat crow simply because it turns out I haven't had any issues at all with Warp Core or solar. It's early, you might turn out to be right in the future.

Unless your position now is that refrigerators and alternators are "new fangled technology" that is untried and untested, of course.
WingedRyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.