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Old 08-03-2017, 11:13 AM   #461
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I envision things working as advertised, safely.
Dan Neeley lives in your neck of the woods. You could always call him.
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:17 AM   #462
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Dan Neeley lives in your neck of the woods. You could always call him.
The RoadTrek Whisperer!

If I buy this rig and it later has issues, he will definitely be on the top of my list. I hear nothing but great things about his knowledge and work ethic.
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Old 08-03-2017, 12:01 PM   #463
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I will preface this with a disclaimer. I am not a supporter of "inspecting in" quality, as I know it rarely works and is hardly ever more than about 80% accurate.

What I am a supporter of is burn in and functional testing of high value, low production, complex, items that can cause problems or incur expensive downtime and repair if they don't work correctly at install or fail quickly.

We don't know the failure rate of the Ecotrek, Voltstart stuff, but I have to believe that the cost savings in field repairs would likely cover the costs of a full functional testing of the systems before leaving the factory. Hopefully, the engineers know how the systems should all work and react to various situations so they could write a procedure that would test everything in a minimum of steps and time, while also doing a burn in on the components. In reality, the systems are pretty complex, but the functions really aren't much more than power in/power out for the various charging methods, plus a look for bad interactions between the methods.

All the building of the units should be done correctly at the build, and doing redundant inspections of wiring, etc really shouldn't be necessary in a well run, adequately trained, factory, but there is an exponential possibility of component failures with the number of complex items added to the systems, which would be caught at functional testing. Throw on top of it the tendency of companies to continually change suppliers or models of those parts to keep costs down, and you add more uncertainty. Since some of the Roadtrek units work acceptably, and some don't, I would assume that if the components are good, the systems should all work when they get to the customer, and there is not a systemic problem with design.

For the cost that has been incurred in trying to fix WingedRyno's van, Roadtrek probably could have functionally tested 3-6 month's worth of EcoTrek production. If his issues had been caught at functional test, it would have failed specific tests that would almost certainly and immediately identified the problem so it could be quickly fixed by people far more experienced and knowledgeable than the tech at the dealer who hasn't been trained in the technology.

It still baffles me how this seems to go on and and on, and repeats on new products.
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Old 08-03-2017, 12:11 PM   #464
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...

What I am a supporter of is burn in and functional testing of high value, low production, complex, items that can cause problems or incur expensive downtime and repair if they don't work correctly at install or fail quickly.

We don't know the failure rate of the Ecotrek, Voltstart stuff, but I have to believe that the cost savings in field repairs would likely cover the costs of a full functional testing of the systems before leaving the factory....

It still baffles me how this seems to go on and and on, and repeats on new products.

+1

The scary part is, we read about these malfunctions on various forums on a regular basis.

Do they ever learn from customer feedbacks?
Who is their cost accountant? The warranty costs must show up somewhere as a spike.
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Old 08-03-2017, 02:57 PM   #465
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.

Come to think of it, I would pull that Nations alternator and put a AC Delco in its place.
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Old 08-03-2017, 03:55 PM   #466
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.

Come to think of it, I would pull that Nations alternator and put a AC Delco in its place.
It's not so simple. The optional second alternator MB brackets used for the Nations don't work for the Delco-Remy alternator. Advanced RV had to design and manufacture a costume bracket and pulley system among other things to accommodate the Delco.
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:47 PM   #467
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…………………………… I am not a supporter of "inspecting in" quality, as I know it rarely works and is hardly ever more than about 80% accurate…………………….
Indeed, that is how Sony killed NA TV manufacturers surprised why if their TVs were within specs. So inspecting quality didn’t work for them.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:06 PM   #468
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I envision things working as advertised, safely.
Not to worry. As you go onward and upward in life, the plaintive voices of the doomsayers become fainter and fainter in the distance.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:21 PM   #469
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Not to worry. As you go onward and upward in life, the plaintive voices of the doomsayers become fainter and fainter in the distance.
I wouldn't exactly say doomsayers, just realists in the fact that Roadtrek has had problems with the new systems in a lot of cases. Just saying there is not problem doesn't make problems not happen, either.

Every expectation has to be that they will get it fixed and ready to go, but it doesn't change the fact that the problems should never have happened in the first place, weren't found by the dealer, and are taking so long to fix.

Hopefully, WingedRyno is now on his way hone with a fully functional warp core Roadtrek. I wish him all best in his adventures, although I am still a little interested in what it is like to travel with a lizard
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:33 PM   #470
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.

Before you sign off on the acceptance,
you should talk to a guy name Paul.
He has a similarly loaded CS XL as yours.
Ask him about his solar, and what Dan has done for him to remediate the shorcomings.
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:16 PM   #471
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I wouldn't exactly say doomsayers, just realists in the fact that Roadtrek has had problems with the new systems in a lot of cases. Just saying there is not problem doesn't make problems not happen, either.

Every expectation has to be that they will get it fixed and ready to go, but it doesn't change the fact that the problems should never have happened in the first place, weren't found by the dealer, and are taking so long to fix.
I hear ya. I don't include you among the doomsayer contingent. You provide no shortage of stinging observations regarding the foibles of RT but they are measured and objective. I get the impression that when push comes to shove, you hope they succeed in improving what appears to be some questionable design aggravated by the kind of poor quality control that's responsible for this thread.

What I'm referring to are confirmation biased posters that that seem to take some erotic pleasure in crapping all over the company without even a hint of any acknowledgement that RT gets, or for that matter, has ever gotten anything right.
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:46 PM   #472
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Hello, new Roadtrek Agile owner. I've been reading these posts and experimenting with my two Ecotrek modules. What I found is that your assumptions about parasitic losses are correct, I get to about 50% battery from a fully charged Ecotrek module in a day if I don't use any loads but only if Ecotrek is turned on AND it's connected to the coach. If I use separate Battery Disconnect switch (works on all modules), then even with Ecotrek still turned on, I do not get any losses (same as when it's off). So there must be something in the way Ecotrek is connected to the coach that makes it loose power.
Note, you can still charge Ecotrek with Solar while it's ON but disconnected from the coach and it's much faster than when it's connected.
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:54 PM   #473
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Hello, new Roadtrek Agile owner. I've been reading these posts and experimenting with my two Ecotrek modules. What I found is that your assumptions about parasitic losses are correct, I get to about 50% battery from a fully charged Ecotrek module in a day if I don't use any loads but only if Ecotrek is turned on AND it's connected to the coach. If I use separate Battery Disconnect switch (works on all modules), then even with Ecotrek still turned on, I do not get any losses (same as when it's off). So there must be something in the way Ecotrek is connected to the coach that makes it loose power.
Note, you can still charge Ecotrek with Solar while it's ON but disconnected from the coach and it's much faster than when it's connected.
How are you measuring the percent state of charge? It would be contrary to what others have seen from others if you aren't getting losses when the module is just on but not connected to the coach, and would indicate something has changed.
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Old 08-03-2017, 07:58 PM   #474
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Just voltage. If I note the voltage is 13.65v (fully charged) and I use disconnect switch, then it stays around the same 10 hours later. If I don't use disconnect switch, then it drops to 13.35v with no other loads which indicates a drop from 160ah to 100ah or 60ah.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:06 PM   #475
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I think by using disconnect switch, Ecotrek is disconnected from the load side and is staying on the other side with coach AGM and solar charging module. Perhaps AGM in this case is taking a hit and providing current to Ecotrek BMS? I haven't measured AGM voltage after the test.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:08 PM   #476
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:20 PM   #477
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Hello, new Roadtrek Agile owner. I've been reading these posts and experimenting with my two Ecotrek modules. What I found is that your assumptions about parasitic losses are correct, I get to about 50% battery from a fully charged Ecotrek module in a day if I don't use any loads but only if Ecotrek is turned on AND it's connected to the coach. If I use separate Battery Disconnect switch (works on all modules), then even with Ecotrek still turned on, I do not get any losses (same as when it's off). So there must be something in the way Ecotrek is connected to the coach that makes it loose power.
Note, you can still charge Ecotrek with Solar while it's ON but disconnected from the coach and it's much faster than when it's connected.
Is your refrigerator running when you run the test with the battery disconnect switch "on"?
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:22 PM   #478
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Could it be the solar holding the module full by covering the parasitic, even when the main disconnect is off?

The AGM won't hold that high of a voltage for long as it would be all surface charge. It will drop to about 12.8v very quickly.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:22 PM   #479
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Refrigerator selector switch was at 0 setting, I checked.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:23 PM   #480
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I thought about that, so I did a test at night so no solar was charging.
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