How important is "stealth mode" to you?

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

I'm starting to notice a few new RVs out there that are doing everything possible to make their campervan seem "invisible" to others.....

No awnings, no solar, cassette toilet, no generator
no markings of any kind. Embassy RV is selling this as a feature.

When does all of these deletions get in the way of being practical.

If you're using the campervan at RV, state and national parks, what difference does it make?

I'm sorry, but, no awning really causes a lot of too sunny days at the campground.

[avanti]

Don't confuse "stealth" (i.e., an attempt to fool people into not realizing the van is an RV) with "aesthetics" (i.e., the desire for the rig to look as attractive and refined as possible).

I couldn't care less about stealth, but we do care about aesthetics. Nothing says "National Lampoon" more than a van with a huge A/C on the roof, side-walls covered with hatches and vents, copious "Elkhart graffiti", and a huge awning hanging off one side. No thanks.

Our new van has none of this, and I daresay that it was done with zero impact on practicality. We DO have a single solar panel, but it is carefully positioned in the center of the roof to minimize visibility. As for awnings, we had them on both of our previous vans. The first one was used exactly twice in 8 years. We only had one on our Legend because Great West made a clerical error. It was literally NEVER used. Obviously, it was eschewed this time around.

[Roadtrek Adventuous RS1]

Pete, you think everyone driving around with a rooftop A/C looks like they just came out of a Chevy Chase movie?

I'm trying to be practical here. Yeah, I understand the difference between stealth and aesthetics.

My van has an awning, very few decals, came from Roadtrek and a bicycle rack on the back.

My point is that you can delete so many things for beauty's sake and wind up short changing your camping experience.

[Punkinhead]

A lot of the stealth features are also practical. Some people prefer to not have propane for practical reasons but that also means no propane port and no big vent cut in the side of the van for the fridge. Using split AC with an undermount condenser not only gets rid of the unsightly roof AC but also reduces height which can help for tree limbs and some garage doors. Awnings are always near the top of warranty claims. I watched two get destroyed in a thunderstorm last week in Kentucky. I prefer a Moonshade because it won't damage the van in a sudden wind. Some people prefer a cassette or composting toilet which has the side benefit of eliminating the outside dump valve. My neighborhood doesn't have an HOA so stealth is nice but not necessary, but I like having an efficient 12v fridge, no roof AC, and no black tank. Other people prefer 3-way fridges, roof AC, and a black tank.

[booster]

As Avanti said aesthetics are different than stealth.


Stealth in itself is kind of a myth I think because most any law enforcement is not going to be fooled and even if it does work, parking where I am not supposed to so I need stealth to do it just doesn't sit right. Ee wouldn't want our street full of seudo plumbing vans that are really campers so why would we do it to others? Flat grey or black slab sided vans with tiny windows aren't attractive to me, but they seem to be in vogue now.



Some campers get to be a bit gawdy, but if that is what folks are OK, why not. We have no issue looking like a camper van because we are one so vents in the side and very useful outside storage is a good thing because we like. We have some graphics that came on it, but they aren't huge or gawdy, but I removed all the dealer and other useless stickers and labels.


Everybody should just get what they want and like, with stealth thrown in to the mix IMO.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

Don't confuse "stealth" (i.e., an attempt to fool people into not realizing the van is an RV) with "aesthetics" (i.e., the desire for the rig to look as attractive and refined as possible).
I couldn't care less about stealth, but we do care about aesthetics. Nothing says "National Lampoon" more than a van with a huge A/C on the roof, side-walls covered with hatches and vents, copious "Elkhart graffiti", and a huge awning hanging off one side. No thanks.
………………….

Originally Posted by booster

As Avanti said aesthetics are different than stealth.
Stealth in itself is kind of a myth I think because most any law enforcement is not going to be fooled and even if it does work, parking where I am not supposed to so I need stealth to do it just doesn't sit right. Ee wouldn't want our street full of seudo plumbing vans that are really campers so why would we do it to others? Flat grey or black slab sided vans with tiny windows aren't attractive to me, but they seem to be in vogue now.
Some campers get to be a bit gawdy, but if that is what folks are OK, why not. We have no issue looking like a camper van because we are one so vents in the side and very useful outside storage is a good thing because we like. We have some graphics that came on it, but they aren't huge or gawdy, but I removed all the dealer and other useless stickers and labels.
Everybody should just get what they want and like, with stealth thrown in to the mix IMO.

Fully agree. Stealthy airplanes invisible to enemy radars make a lot of sense.
For example stealthy vans next to kindergartens or other children’s facilities just don’t. Jut like Booster stated - “parking where I am not supposed to so I need stealth to do it just doesn't sit right.” – it doesn’t sit right with me as well.

[N147JK]

Originally Posted by booster

Flat grey or black slab sided vans with tiny windows aren't attractive to me, but they seem to be in vogue now.

I'm with you. I don't understand the stealth thing. Feels like a worn out idea from the 90's. What's behind the need to hide? Hide from what? Tiny windows or no windows at all so you can't see outside. What's the point of doing this to a camper? Add black wheels and the "look" is even stranger.

[avanti]

Originally Posted by N147JK

I'm with you. I don't understand the stealth thing. Feels like a worn out idea from the 90's. What's behind the need to hide? Hide from what? Tiny windows or no windows at all so you can't see outside. What's the point of doing this to a camper? Add black wheels and the "look" is even stranger.

I completely agree with your larger point, but in fairness, I am not sure that the "small/no windows" thing is primarily motivated by the desire for stealth. The trend seems to have come from the #vanlife gang who need to maximize storage above all else--both for long-term living and for gear. As much as we love windows, there is no denying that they take up huge amounts of internal space that could otherwise be used for cabinets. More than once, I have found myself admiring how much storage has been squeezed into a small van, only to realize that it was done by eliminating windows.

Not for me, but it is a legitimate tradeoff.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by avanti

I completely agree with your larger point, but in fairness, I am not sure that the "small/no windows" thing is primarily motivated by the desire for stealth. The trend seems to have come from the @vanlife gang who need to maximize storage above all else--both for long-term living and for gear. As much as we love windows, there is no denying that they take up huge amounts of internal space that could otherwise be used for cabinets. More than once, I have found myself admiring how much storage has been squeezed into a small van, only to realize that it was done by eliminating windows.
Not for me, but it is a legitimate tradeoff.

Agree with the storage capacity vs windows. But there is a risk of claustrophobic inducing cage design if there are not enough windows.

Originally Posted by N147JK

I'm with you. I don't understand the stealth thing. Feels like a worn out idea from the 90's. What's behind the need to hide? Hide from what? Tiny windows or no windows at all so you can't see outside. What's the point of doing this to a camper? Add black wheels and the "look" is even stranger.

Difficult to discuss aesthetics as old Latin maxim “De gustibus non est disputandum” states. For my design the main tradeoffs were between functionalities. Aesthetics in my design boiled down to color scheme and fit and finish.

Stealth never made to my tradeoffs list as I have a fundamental problem with its principals. As you stated hiding from what? “What's behind the need to hide? Hide from what?” It is ironic for van owners claiming their vans stealthiness, while there are giving away details like any roof protrusions or road clearance reducing skirts or no windows forcing low enforcement folks and others to question why is this van parking here. From my perspective a stealthy van would be a passenger van with all non-tinted and not covered glass around.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by N147JK

I'm with you. I don't understand the stealth thing. Feels like a worn out idea from the 90's. What's behind the need to hide? Hide from what? Tiny windows or no windows at all so you can't see outside. What's the point of doing this to a camper? Add black wheels and the "look" is even stranger.

90s? I never saw a black or grey Class B before about 2003 but there were lots of white vans with swoops and swirl graphics with large emblazoned names of the RV manufacturer. You liked that? As for black wheels I think my Black Rhinos are better and better looking than the factory wheels though I got them for weight saving.

[N147JK]

Originally Posted by Davydd

90s? I never saw a black or grey Class B before about 2003

I was referring to the "stealth" idea. You know, F-117 stealth and all that cool stuff. Or was that the 80's?

[Davydd]

I have a 5% rule. If I don't need or use it at least 5% of the time, I don't want it. An awning fits that description. I have had the graphics and manufacturer's names on the van. I don't need them. It is free advertising with no compensation. I think compressor refrigerators are better than absorption 3-way refrigerators, thus no vents on the side, like wise heating with no vents on the side. Cassette toilets usually require a door to pull out the cassette. No to that idea. You can't see black tanks. Solar is a no go--I had experience. No propane whatsoever. No generator though you can't see that either. I have a SmartPlug under the bumper because it is simple to plug in vs. the traditional bayonet plug. All the necessary connections for dumping and water are in add on black painted steel nerf bars that also integrate steps, storage and act as a side bumper. I consider that a better solution than fiberglass panels. Rooftop does have an air conditioner, a Maxxfan, two skylights and a dome TV antenna filling up most all available space on a short van, but quite stealth if you call it and non-intrusive. I do have a very sophisticated battery and charging system which negates a generator, propane, and solar needs. I don't suffer in amenities. If stealth is that description, it is more simplicity and needless maintenance especially on the exterior. Aesthetics and stealth as it is called is a byproduct. I live in an HOA and going in I knew no van can be parked there so that is not a reason. Boondocking is popular and stealth is not an advantage anywhere I know of. Boondocking is either legal or not for RVs and I am not about to try to fool anyone. I do have a rear passenger quarter panel of glass with no window. I guess that is an aesthetic touch.

[GallenH]

So as the owner of a 1997 PleasureWay in fairly pristine condition, I am a candidate for National Lampoon? A reminder that this RV was state-of-the-art and possessed good aesthetics for its time. I remember when recently camping the guy next to me had a new B and stopped on his way to the john (obviously wasn't using the one in his RV) to talk and asked me the year of my RV and the mileage it got. I told him the only long drive that I watched mpg (New Orleans thru Texas to Phx) I got 16. He went to the john. I went back inside and was getting a beer and he walked by my RV and said (I assume to me although I was inside) "I get 22."

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by GallenH

I went back inside and was getting a beer and he walked by my RV and said (I assume to me although I was inside) "I get 22."

I think he lied unless coming east out of the high plains of the Rocky Mountains with the wind at his back, driving under the speed limit, avoiding cities, one time in a diesel Sprinter. I've had four Sprinters and never got that mileage. 20.5 mpg on a good day in a short 144WB 2WD Sprinter. Usually 19- 19.5 mpg on most fill-ups.

[GeorgeRa]

Originally Posted by GallenH

So as the owner of a 1997 PleasureWay in fairly pristine condition, I am a candidate for National Lampoon? A reminder that this RV was state-of-the-art and possessed good aesthetics for its time. I remember when recently camping the guy next to me had a new B and stopped on his way to the john (obviously wasn't using the one in his RV) to talk and asked me the year of my RV and the mileage it got. I told him the only long drive that I watched mpg (New Orleans thru Texas to Phx) I got 16. He went to the john. I went back inside and was getting a beer and he walked by my RV and said (I assume to me although I was inside) "I get 22."

If he had 4-cylinder Sprinter 22mpg is valid. With my 6-cylinder Sprinter I get 19-21 mpg, on the recent trip to SW Oregon I got 20.33 mpg total.

Asimba2 from the Sprinter forum writes about his gas mileage on various trips on his converted 4-cylinder Sprinter.

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/i.../#post-1024943

https://sprinter-source.com/forums/i...6/#post-807374

[avanti]

Originally Posted by GeorgeRa

If he had 4-cylinder Sprinter 22mpg is valid. With my 6-cylinder Sprinter I get 19-21 mpg, on the recent trip to SW Oregon I got 20.33 mpg total.

Agree. Our old rig is an I4. With a little care, 22MPG is perfectly achievable under many conditions. I doubt that I averaged that, but I am not very careful when it comes to economical driving.

[GallenH]

Actually I didn't mean to divert the thread to one on mileage. That wasn't the point of my story. I'm sure most of you understand that.

[RossWilliams]

There are a couple reasons for stealth. One is clearly HOA that don't allow RV's. The other is you want to actually park in settings where overnight sleeping isn't allowed. An example would be parking in a friend's driveway or in front of their house. If you park for several days a "van" may or may not attract attention. An obvious RV would.

In answer to the original poster's question, we don't worry about stealth at all. Our awning is not supposed to be used in rain or wind. That means it almost never gets used. We have a sunshade we put up that will stand up to the weather without damage and would be relatively cheap to replace if it somehow didn't. We also don't need to sit right next to the RV to take advantage of it.

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by RossWilliams

There are a couple reasons for stealth. One is clearly HOA that don't allow RV's. The other is you want to actually park in settings where overnight sleeping isn't allowed. An example would be parking in a friend's driveway or in front of their house. If you park for several days a "van" may or may not attract attention. An obvious RV would.

HOA's. Yes there are people that try to fool their HOA's usually with failure and making a pariah of themselves. There are reasons for those rules and it is mostly keeping home values up and not cluttering the neighborhood. If one gets away with it, others will follow. I bought into a 16 unit HOA with no on street parking but with 4 public parking stalls and no driveway parking except for guests. All owner vehicles have to be garageable. I knew it going in and keep my van off site in a condo garage I bought. Best real estate deal i've made besides space for a wood shop and man cave. The 18' x 45' garage has appreciated 3X in 6 years. If you can't do that. Simple. Don't buy into an HOA. I didn't until I was 10 years retired.

I previously mentioned I don't break any laws whiile boondocking. I've parked in driveways and on streets and never had an issue. Most parking is but a day or two. I've boondocked in New Your City on a one way narrow street. I've boondocked in Newport, RI behind a mansion where I once lived in a carriage house when in the Navy (with permission). Those are two extreme examples. I've done those two in a van, not "stealth" with full all around windows and an awning!

People have to get it through their heads. Stealth as you call it is a personal aesthetic decision. Heck, at one time I could have been happy with this.

[ChristyCappello]

I have a 2001 Roadtrek Versatile. I like to be stealthy sometimes, especially when I’m parked overnight in the street. Unless your a camper, most people think that my RV is a van.