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Old 01-20-2015, 02:41 PM   #221
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

on another note-the roadtrek engine generator was originally for the e-trek- 8 six volt 220 ampbatterys 880 12volt amps.

then the same system in the 1/2 trek 4 6 volt batteries 440 12 volt amps.

then the same system in the zion for 185 12 volt amps(although tppl).

think of the system as a bucket of water.

the e-trek is a bigger bucket-takes more and longer for the generator bucket to fill it.

the half trek is about the same size-take less time tofill it.

the zion is a shotglass-the bucket is way overkill
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:02 PM   #222
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

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Quote:
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There's 3 info tabs on the that Nations alternator link. The specs under the "features" tab are different from the specs under the "performance/technical specs" tab.

Under the "performance/technical specs" tab the 270 amp alternator at 1800 RPM ( alternator shaft) (like your Chevy) equals 157 amps output.
Gotta love it when that happens! I did finally get to the page, for some reason the DSL has bee absolutely creeping along this morning.

Going by the part number and the spec sheet, it appears that this is a DC Power Engineering alternator, in a case made to fit the Promaster. The specs are identical for this one which fits the minivan.

https://www.dcpowerinc.com/fit/Chrys...formance_sheet

Nations sells others that are DC Power also, but they don't state it on this one like they do on the others. They are very good alternators from all I have ever heard. It is nice they have one available so quickly.
That link shows the performance curve.
Using the 3 or 3.5 to 1 ratio they note you can see that you'd get better output with the engine idling at around 1,000 rpms. I wonder if the PCM control would automatically handle that or would you need a fast idle switch?
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:20 PM   #223
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

As I understand the PCM control of the alternator is that it controls the "regulator" input voltage to the alternator to control the output voltage of the alternator (just like any voltage regulator would), so I don't think the high idle switch would affect it. On ours that is not PCM controlled, the alternator feeds the armature "duty cycle" signal to tell the PCM how hard the alternator is working compared to full load, and the PCM uses that information in some of its idle characteristics and reactions, kind of like when the air conditioning is turned on. It doesn't change engine idle speed at all even at full load.

I do think you would need a fast idle switch to get to 1000 rpm idle speed.
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Old 01-20-2015, 03:26 PM   #224
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

edited

I get it now. It doesn't make it spin faster - but can adjust the output within a certain range.
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Old 01-23-2015, 08:33 PM   #225
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

I saw the zion today at hartford rv show. it is even better seeing it in person. several small touches i liked.

also the side fold out bed is rock solid even with my 220 pounds. it does not need extra support.

Dawn fromRoadtrek was there. she call'ed to confirm the battery. it is the Northstar 400 sms agm we have discussed in the past.

I will be getting the Onan on this van.

I would have ordered today but my wife wants to think about some interior color choices-but shw was enthusiastic about the zion(a first for her).

i hope to place an order within the next 2 weeks. 2-3 month wait time
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Old 01-23-2015, 09:29 PM   #226
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

Quote:
Originally Posted by gerrym51
I saw the zion today at hartford rv show. it is even better seeing it in person. several small touches i liked.

also the side fold out bed is rock solid even with my 220 pounds. it does not need extra support.

Dawn fromRoadtrek was there. she call'ed to confirm the battery. it is the Northstar 400 sms agm we have discussed in the past.

I will be getting the Onan on this van.

I would have ordered today but my wife wants to think about some interior color choices-but shw was enthusiastic about the zion(a first for her).

i hope to place an order within the next 2 weeks. 2-3 month wait time

Did you take any pics? Congrats on the wife conversion
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Old 01-23-2015, 09:34 PM   #227
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerrym51
I saw the zion today at hartford rv show. it is even better seeing it in person. several small touches i liked.

also the side fold out bed is rock solid even with my 220 pounds. it does not need extra support.

Dawn fromRoadtrek was there. she call'ed to confirm the battery. it is the Northstar 400 sms agm we have discussed in the past.

I will be getting the Onan on this van.

I would have ordered today but my wife wants to think about some interior color choices-but shw was enthusiastic about the zion(a first for her).

i hope to place an order within the next 2 weeks. 2-3 month wait time

Did you take any pics? Congrats on the wife conversion

as amazing as this may seem i do not have a smartphone that takes pictures
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Old 01-23-2015, 09:39 PM   #228
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

Good to hear they have a Zion at the Hartford show gerry51. I was hoping to take "she who must be obeyed" there myself this weekend, but will wait and see how the snow storm winds down before heading there. The wife has been expressing doubts about the whole "RV thing", but there's an old Korean saying "If you tap on a tree trunk with your finger long enough.... eventually it will fall down"
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Old 01-23-2015, 09:42 PM   #229
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

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Good to hear they have a Zion at the Hartford show gerry51. I was hoping to take "she who must be obeyed" there myself this weekend, but will wait and see how the snow storm winds down before heading there. The wife has been expressing doubts about the whole "RV thing", but there's an old Korean saying "If you tap on a tree trunk with your finger long enough.... eventually it will fall down"

it's the sameone they had in Tampa. it's roadtreks demonstrater one. we did it today because we did not want any chance the snow would stop us.

this demonstrater will be going to the midwest. it would be our last chance to actually see one until they start rolling out late february/early march
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Old 01-23-2015, 11:25 PM   #230
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

Great that you got to see it & very exciting for you !
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Old 01-24-2015, 12:30 PM   #231
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

Congratulations Gerry!

Can you comment on what you observed on the cabinetry construction? What is the material - laminated plywood, coated mdf, etc?

I'm assuming it's all screwed as Roadtrek claims on the rest of their line, correct?
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Old 01-24-2015, 12:57 PM   #232
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

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Congratulations Gerry!

Can you comment on what you observed on the cabinetry construction? What is the material - laminated plywood, coated mdf, etc?

I'm assuming it's all screwed as Roadtrek claims on the rest of their line, correct?

wincrasher-the one we saw is the traveling demonstration model that was in tampa. then went to hartford. we are going to get cherry cabinet option option. although i opened and closed just about every cabinet i am not an expert-i would say coated mdf(is that particle board). i saw some screws but to be honest i was not looking for that. bathroom stall is bigger(or seemed) to me

my biggest concern was getting something -the WIFE LOVED!. she's talking about the faux leatheroption-sigh(extra 2500)

the beds were number one concern-but theye were great-for a van-very comfortable-no gaps(front to back) and the power sofa -that comes out from side was extremly sturdy.

we discuss vans here and there all always tradeoffs. the complicating factor to us is our cats(as i've said). i would consider not getting the onan with this but better to have it even if hardly ever use it. although i consider this a first and last purchase for our final years i suppose having the onan will make re-sale easier-although i'm not contemplating that.
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Old 01-24-2015, 01:04 PM   #233
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

I think you are probably right on resale, if that is a consideration. Most folks would expect a generator. If I were ordering, I'd probably select the extra alternator, as I'm not one for much generator use.

Too bad you can't talk them into using the Truma system in the Zion. I think Winnebago blindsided everyone with that one. Solves some space problems, and hopefully uses less LP.

Curious though, when people ask about my van, they are surprised that it has one. To the uninitiated, most are surprised that a RV of this size is truly self contained.

As far as the bed arrangement goes, can it be used as twins? That is, fold one down as a bed, and leave the other as a sofa? For a single traveler, that would be convenient.
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Old 01-24-2015, 01:35 PM   #234
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

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Originally Posted by wincrasher
I think you are probably right on resale, if that is a consideration. Most folks would expect a generator. If I were ordering, I'd probably select the extra alternator, as I'm not one for much generator use.

Too bad you can't talk them into using the Truma system in the Zion. I think Winnebago blindsided everyone with that one. Solves some space problems, and hopefully uses less LP.

Curious though, when people ask about my van, they are surprised that it has one. To the uninitiated, most are surprised that a RV of this size is truly self contained.

As far as the bed arrangement goes, can it be used as twins? That is, fold one down as a bed, and leave the other as a sofa? For a single traveler, that would be convenient.

wincrasher-one side(passenger) is basically a bed-it does not move.the other side is the powerd sofa part that extends 2/3 out and flattens.

the zion-different from other models-comes standard with the 2000 watt inverter/charger and the one battery discussed(185 amp tppl). you don't have to get either generator. so if you buy the engine generator package on the zion you are only getting the 280ampalternator(different then the other models were the package is alternator/more batteries/bigger inverter).

so my logic-and this just applies to the zion. the standard alternator on thr zion is 220 amps. you have a 185 amp battery-the extra alternator is overkill in my opinion on this smaller battery pack. remember the engine generator system was originally designed for e-trek 8-6 volt(880 amps 12 volt). if you charge based on 50 percent rule charging 440 amps,220 amps in the smaller roadtrek pack. but the system is still the same as the full e-trek. if you consider the zions 185 amp battery a shotglass and the fulle-trek charging a bucket it's overkill in a small battery pack.

however despite this one really cool thing in this zion(i impress easily) is the plugs it has. each bed side and the galleu upfront has a multiplug that has a 12 volt outlet/120 volt outlet/and usb port in the same plug. i did not expect that
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Old 01-24-2015, 02:22 PM   #235
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

Interesting stuff.

Is part of the engine generator (alternator) do anything about cooling?

Most of times on gasoline cars and trucks, they give you warning about excessive engine idling. The exhaust system can get very hot, as well as the engine. I suppose, in software, you can kick on the engine rad fans, but what do they do about the exhaust?

I would agree, if you are just doing battery charging, the bigger alternator is not needed.

But what if you want to just run the inverter to power the air conditioner for a bit? Wouldn't you come up short?
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Old 01-24-2015, 03:21 PM   #236
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

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Interesting stuff.

Is part of the engine generator (alternator) do anything about cooling?

Most of times on gasoline cars and trucks, they give you warning about excessive engine idling. The exhaust system can get very hot, as well as the engine. I suppose, in software, you can kick on the engine rad fans, but what do they do about the exhaust?

I would agree, if you are just doing battery charging, the bigger alternator is not needed.

But what if you want to just run the inverter to power the air conditioner for a bit? Wouldn't you come up short?

wincrasher-everything is a tradeoff. however remember this battery only has 185 amps. an agm battery will only absorb so much at a time. wera a regular agm will take in up to 40 percent of total battey capacity at one time the tppl will do 70. at idle the standard 220 amp alternator will give about 100 amps. the engine generator system would give far more but the battery will only absorb so much-think of a battery as a sponge-small sponge-you dump a couple of glasses of water on it its full of water. you dump more glasses of water but it can't absorb more. then you try dumping bucket of water(engine generator) the sponge still won't absorb more. if i could get a second battery i would swith to engine generator but at 185 amps overkill
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Old 01-25-2015, 06:00 AM   #237
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

Quote:
Originally Posted by wincrasher
Interesting stuff.

Is part of the engine generator (alternator) do anything about cooling?

Most of times on gasoline cars and trucks, they give you warning about excessive engine idling. The exhaust system can get very hot, as well as the engine. I suppose, in software, you can kick on the engine rad fans, but what do they do about the exhaust?

I would agree, if you are just doing battery charging, the bigger alternator is not needed.

But what if you want to just run the inverter to power the air conditioner for a bit? Wouldn't you come up short?
Excessive idiling of a modern gas engine won't damage it any more than driving it. Unless it has a cooling issue, broken belt, etc. and temp. gets too high, or oil pressure drops below safe levels, it will do just fine. Of course the environmentalists will use scare rhetoric to convince you otherwise.
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Old 01-25-2015, 03:10 PM   #238
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

Mark and Booster and anyone eles who understands batteries and alternator charging.

I hope to finalize my zion order by thursday.
However a couple other things have popped up.

1.i asked again for a second battery-again i was told no.
2. however i can get Both the Onan and the engine generator(280 amp alternator ) if i want.
3. this is where the question arises.

with the 220 amp primary alternator-do i actually need the second one with such a small battery. even if its a tppl agm 185 amps is 185 amps.

at 40 miles an hour the 220 amp alternator should give almost full power. although some will go to other parts of the vehicle it should easily charge this battery.

the ? is in the idling output. i've researched this and although some are different most seem to be about 1/2 when idling.

any opinions-my thinking is no not both somewhat because i can;t see spending 3500 dollars for an extra alternator that would only marginally help with such a small battery?
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Old 01-25-2015, 05:49 PM   #239
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

What do you want? Do you want an Onan?

I think you like the idea of the engine generator and would be happy with two of those 180Ah TPPL batteries or the equivalent. A "1/2-trek" rather than a "1/4-trek".

If that's want you want then don't settle for less.

Somebody should tell Jim H that you're one battery away from signing a deal. He could make it happen in an instant.

Sorry for not answering your question ........... just had to say the above. Plus we don't know the fuse size on the wire from the OEM alternator and whether the units come with different chargers and different inverters depending on the generator chosen.
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Old 01-25-2015, 05:55 PM   #240
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Default Re: Roadtrek is making a ProMaster model... Zion

I agree with Marko. The big thing will be the capability of the wiring to the coach batteries with the stock alternator. The alternator itself would do fine, I think, but it is very possible they don't upgrade the wiring unless you buy the engine generator.

It is very possible that Roadtrek knows that they are a bit short on battery with the 185AH one. Why else would they call it a 400amp battery except to make it seem like a 1/2 Roadtrek setup. I know that is what I though the first time I heard it.
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