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Old 08-19-2015, 02:18 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by stanw909 View Post
............and yes you do have to pull everything out to find stuff.
Stan,

On boats, top loading fridges work great but, in addition to having to pull everything out to find stuff, you also always have to clear the already limited counter space to get access.

I thought of going with portable top loader in our VW, like the California, but you lose the counter space. Then I saw a DIY camper and one of the Hymers that fits the portable on a slide-out, like a drawer.

Does anyone make a 12v drawer type fridge, like Fisher-Paykel does for your home?
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Old 08-19-2015, 03:38 PM   #22
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Does anyone make a 12v drawer type fridge, like Fisher-Paykel does for your home?
Just answered my own question - quick google found them - WAECO, IsoTherm and others make them. Very open on the sides when drawer pulled out - not really like a top-loader. VERY expensive compared to front load 12v fridges.
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Old 08-19-2015, 04:00 PM   #23
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Just answered my own question - quick google found them - WAECO, IsoTherm and others make them. Very open on the sides when drawer pulled out - not really like a top-loader. VERY expensive compared to front load 12v fridges.
If the sides are open, it would gain even more heat than a front door model as all the stuff is exposed, so it wouldn't do much for the original training question.
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:19 PM   #24
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If the sides are open, it would gain even more heat than a front door model as all the stuff is exposed, so it wouldn't do much for the original training question.
Agree. On the Fisher-Paykel home model design it looks like they really are deep drawers with sides to the top.

Anyway, the portable on a drawer/pull-out slide is intriguing. Some things I like about the portables are (1) they seem very well insulated (2) the top door looks like it seals very well.

If you are interested in a portable, I did some research awhile ago. One thing I found out was that the Australians are serious boondockers and very serious about their portable fridges (gotta keep the beer cold, I guess). The magazine "Australian 4WD Action" does fridge comparisons every few years - lab tests, and then field tests in the outback desert. Domestic posted the article on their website - Check out the 2015 tests:

http://www.dometic.com/Global/_Domet..._comparo_2.pdf

I have an earlier review that also lists amps used, etc.
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Old 08-19-2015, 05:54 PM   #25
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Very interesting article on the testing. Wish someone would do a similar one on the door frigs and on chests like the ones in B's.
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Old 08-19-2015, 06:17 PM   #26
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Very interesting article on the testing. Wish someone would do a similar one on the door frigs and on chests like the ones in B's.
One would think the manufacturers might want to, but I think the "built-ins" are not insulated and sealed like the portables. ARB reprints part of the previous test for marketing, even though they did not score #1. Maybe some forum should find a lab, set up some tests, etc. Wonder how much it would cost?

I was just reading the recent review. The lab tests at 35C (95F) and at 55C (1331F !!) to simulate what happens to your fridge when locked up in your vehicle in the middle of the day. Now that sounds like a realistic test.
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Old 08-19-2015, 07:54 PM   #27
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I would guess they do have one big advantage down in OZ, and that would be the probable low humidity in the outback. Temps are high, and humidity wouldn't change anything for heat transfer when the lid was shut (if it didn't leak much), but when the lid was open, it probably would give them a break. Earlier in the discussion, the question of air going through a frig, and it's net effect, with the door open, came up, and since then I have be sporadically reading up on some of the frig design and functional testing stuff. I was surprised that in well insulated units, one of the biggest influences on cooling requirements was the humidity in the air, and how often the frig was opened. Looking at their calculations, the air itself will carry a bit of heat into the frig, but it is the heat of vaporization that is given off to the stuff in the frig, and the insides of the frig, when the moisture in the air condenses on those surfaces that is the elephant in the room. It is many times the heat in the air itself. If it is condensing on the coils or the freezer the moisture will also give up the heat of liquidization as it freezes. That amount isn't as much as the condensation, but still way more than the air itself's heat. The only way that it wouldn't be much effect is if the dewpoint of the air was less than the temp in the frig, which might actually happen in the desert, but not often for us.

So in the original question, the training could be on a sliding scale, based mainly on dewpoint, concerning maximum allowable time the frig door could be open
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Old 08-19-2015, 08:02 PM   #28
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I would guess they do have one big advantage down in OZ, and that would be the probable low humidity in the outback. Temps are high, and humidity wouldn't change anything for heat transfer when the lid was shut (if it didn't leak much), but when the lid was open, it probably would give them a break. Earlier in the discussion, the question of air going through a frig, and it's net effect, with the door open, came up, and since then I have be sporadically reading up on some of the frig design and functional testing stuff. I was surprised that in well insulated units, one of the biggest influences on cooling requirements was the humidity in the air, and how often the frig was opened. Looking at their calculations, the air itself will carry a bit of heat into the frig, but it is the heat of vaporization that is given off to the stuff in the frig, and the insides of the frig, when the moisture in the air condenses on those surfaces that is the elephant in the room. It is many times the heat in the air itself. If it is condensing on the coils or the freezer the moisture will also give up the heat of liquidization as it freezes. That amount isn't as much as the condensation, but still way more than the air itself's heat. The only way that it wouldn't be much effect is if the dewpoint of the air was less than the temp in the frig, which might actually happen in the desert, but not often for us.

So in the original question, the training could be on a sliding scale, based mainly on dewpoint, concerning maximum allowable time the frig door could be open
Love the analysis!! And linking it to the "training".

Stan, if that doesn't fly, I guess you could always just put a lock on the fridge door and have only 1 key.
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