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Old 12-29-2014, 03:53 PM   #1
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Default Roadtrek, idling, and engine generation...

A few days ago, Jim Hammil posted a statement saying that RT will warranty the DPF Filter [sic] as long as the rest of the rig is under the RT warranty period.

They seem to have a lot of confidence in their engine generation technology, which is going to be present even on the Zion.
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:37 PM   #2
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Default Re: Roadtrek, idling, and engine generation...

The lengthy discussion has been about the diesel Sprinter for quite a while. Mercedes Benz at Advanced Fest went on record you could engine idle for up to 3 hours but then recommended you drive your van for at least 40 minutes before doing idling again. Advanced RV's own testing said 10 hours idling but Mercedes Benz wasn't ready to concede that far. It would be easy for Hammill to say that. You would never exceed those limits even recharging an E-trek AGM 800ah battery bank. The second alternator is standard with all Advanced RVs. They don't put Onan generators in.
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:44 PM   #3
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Default Re: Roadtrek, idling, and engine generation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davydd
The lengthy discussion has been about the diesel Sprinter for quite a while. Mercedes Benz at Advanced Fest went on record you could engine idle for up to 3 hours but then recommended you drive your van for at least 40 minutes before doing idling again. Advanced RV's own testing said 10 hours idling but Mercedes Benz wasn't ready to concede that far. It would be easy for Hammill to say that. You would never exceed those limits even recharging an E-trek AGM 800ah battery bank. The second alternator is standard with all Advanced RVs. They don't put Onan generators in.
I think they also said they would do the disassembly and have the DPF cleaned, not a new one. No big deal there, as I think cleaning will turn out to be repair of choice for pretty much all brands of diesels.

As you say, you wouldn't normally exceed whomever's limits without driving very often. The exceptions, I think would be running the AC, or the cumulative charging of batteries over longer times boondocking without moving.
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: Roadtrek, idling, and engine generation...

I'm on record that I do not think I will ever deliberately idle my engine to charge batteries or run an air conditioner. I just don't see it happening to ever have to worry about it. Yeah, I know the Texan argument. When I mustered out of the Navy I had a choice between Minneapolis and Houston. I chose wisely.
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Old 12-29-2014, 04:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: Roadtrek, idling, and engine generation...

I'm assuming RT models have the variable high idle option, so they can start a DPF regen cycle even while parked? This would make the DPF issues pretty much a non-issue.
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Old 12-29-2014, 06:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: Roadtrek, idling, and engine generation...

Interesting. Here's the link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/roadtre ... 633403455/

Quote:
There have been some questions brought up about the idling of the Mercedes diesel engine to run the engine generator. The majority of the concerns have been raised by people about the DPF Filter. Well Roadtrek is so confident this will not be an issue, we will warranty the DPF as well for the full Roadtrek warranty period. This means we will take your DPF and clean it and return it in 24 hours if it ever comes up..............................
It's natural that questions about the DPF come up as DPF issues affect even regular cargo Sprinters that don't rely on an "engine generator" for power.

Two other natural questions are:

1. How to extend the DPF life?
2. Is cleaning the DPF in a Sprinter permitted or approved by Mercedes?

It sure is an expensive part!

http://www.partswebsite.com/berrydcj...=30341&fl_id=42

Quote:
Dodge › Sprinter › 2007-2009
List Price : $4,851.00
Your Price : $3,121.10
Core Price: $200.00
1. How to extend the DPF life? I think extended idling would or could have a similar or slightly exaggerated effect as the problems caused by short-distance driving. I'm not a mechanic though so this is just my opinion. Short-distance driving is addressed in Sprinter Operator Manuals:

Link: http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/files/m...ors_Manual.pdf

Quote:
If the vehicle is predominantly used for
short-distance driving, this could lead to a
malfunction in the automatic cleaning
function for the diesel particle filter. As a
result, fuel may accumulate in the engine
oil and cause engine failure.

Therefore, if you mainly drive short
distances, you should drive on a highway or
on rural roads for 20 minutes every
310 miles (500 km). This ensures sufficient
regeneration of the diesel particle filter.

Therefore, if you mainly drive short distances,
drive on a freeway or an inter-urban road for
20 minutes every 300 miles (500 km). This
facilitates the diesel particle filter's burn-off
process.
2. Is cleaning the DPF in a Sprinter permitted or approved by Mercedes? I don't know the answer.

Link: http://www.mbsprinterusa.com/files/m...nce_Manual.pdf

The maintenance manual only makes reference to checking and replacing it.

Quote:
Diesel particle filter
Diesel particulate filter checked
Diesel particulate filter replaced
Signature/stamp from an authorized Sprinter dealer
A Google search shows that several places seem to offer DPF cleaning now. Given the high cost of the part though it is not surprising. Under warranty I'd want the part replaced. Less time in the shop etc. After warranty - out of my pocket - then cleaning it would be!

The phrase “never look a gift horse in the mouth” comes to mind. Cleaning paid for by Roadtrek would be preferable to paying for it yourself for sure!
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Old 12-29-2014, 06:26 PM   #7
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Default Re: Roadtrek, idling, and engine generation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlts22
I'm assuming RT models have the variable high idle option, so they can start a DPF regen cycle even while parked? This would make the DPF issues pretty much a non-issue.
I don't think Roadtrek uses the fast idle option. Someone with an "engine generator" on a Sprinter could let us know for sure. Upfitter info indicates:

Link: http://daimlervansupfitterportal.com...-5-03-2011.pdf (page 101)

Quote:
The regeneration cannot be triggered manually by the
end user and is done automatically during normal
operation.
If a manual regeneration is required please see an
authorized Sprinter dealers.
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Roadtrek, idling, and engine generation...

This warranty from Roadtrek does bring up an interesting question.

If Roadtrek feels it is necessary for them to warranty the DPF (but only for the Roadtrek warranty period), does that mean that they feel Mercedes will not be willing to warrant DPF claims in RVs with engine generators, or that idle a long time for other reasons?
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: Roadtrek, idling, and engine generation...

the small dpf's in sprinters and cars in North america are not made to be cleaned-they are only made to be replaced. they are not like the big recleanable DPF's onbig trucks.

However there is a way to clean them using asome drilling and a liquid. it's not somthing any that can bedone just anyplace. i rearead Jims post. hedid not say it had to be done in kitchener.justthat it would be cleaned in 24 hours. i do not know the mechanics of how this process will work.





by the way the dpf will fill up between 125-150 thousand miles even if you treat it perfectly.

think of it as a fireplace that burnsthe particles in diesel fuel. there isan unburnable ash residue just like a fireplace. this unburnable residue eventually fills the dpf.

also different jurisdictions treat the waste from a dpf as hazardous materials.it just can't be done anywhere
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: Roadtrek, idling, and engine generation...

Quote:
Originally Posted by booster
This warranty from Roadtrek does bring up an interesting question.

If Roadtrek feels it is necessary for them to warranty the DPF (but only for the Roadtrek warranty period), does that mean that they feel Mercedes will not be willing to warrant DPF claims in RVs with engine generators, or that idle a long time for other reasons?
Might be after the Sprinter warranty:

Quote:
Chassis Warranty
3 year/36,000 mile or 60,000 km base limited warranty and 5 year/100,000 mile or 160,000 km limited diesel engine components warranty as offered by Mercedes. Refer to chassis manufacturers’ website for details.
but during extended E-trek warranty:

Quote:
Extended RV Warranty - 6 year unlimited mileage/km, RV limited warranty covering the manufacture of the motorhome, appliances, electronics, plumbing and batteries (excludes chassis).
Just guessing though.
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