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Old 10-09-2018, 09:21 PM   #31
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I installed the Moog 81004's in my '15 210, and it has been nothing short of great. With the OEM springs, if I had to jam down on the brakes, that front end would really go down - that has gone away - you hit the brake and it stops, or slows down as you desire....those new springs are much stronger. When Booster, Marko and the guys who know about these things put it out, I went for it - Moog Springs, Roadmaster Steering Stabilizer, Bilstein Shocks, and Airlift Ultimate Air Bags on the rear. It is a whole different ride, wish I had done it to the '05 190. Ron
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:24 PM   #32
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They are just over $100 on Amazon, and maybe even less elsewhere, so that is not so bad, it appears.
It's down to $99.50 on Amazon today.

Could someone describe how to connect this gauge in an air lift system if I don't have an on-board compressor?
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:12 AM   #33
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It's down to $99.50 on Amazon today.

Could someone describe how to connect this gauge in an air lift system if I don't have an on-board compressor?

You lose a lot of th benefit of it without a compressor, but it would still work as a gauge to see leakage and to let air out of the bags if you wanted to.



You would have to hook it up with the airbag fill hose going to the inlet of the control and it would also need to be a clip on connection for the air hose or be within reach of the control.


You would put air into the fill port of the system from an air source and nothing would happen until you used the paddle valves to fill the bags. Then you remove the air source. At that point you would not be able to increase the bag pressure with the control.
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Old 10-13-2018, 11:47 PM   #34
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Ron J Moore,CaDreaming and all,
Has anyone that did the Moog, Bilstein, + whatever in the back did this sequencially. Particularly, I am interested to know what the handling would be like after installing Moogs in the front and preferably something in the back to level off the rig but not installing Bilsteins right away. This test would tell us if the OE shocks would be overpowered by the stiffer coil springs up front.
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Old 10-14-2018, 01:38 AM   #35
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Ron J Moore,CaDreaming and all,
Has anyone that did the Moog, Bilstein, + whatever in the back did this sequencially. Particularly, I am interested to know what the handling would be like after installing Moogs in the front and preferably something in the back to level off the rig but not installing Bilsteins right away. This test would tell us if the OE shocks would be overpowered by the stiffer coil springs up front.

There is no problem at all with doing it in stages, but is a good idea to do the lift on both ends at the same time as the alignment would change separately with each end and require being done twice if they are done separately.



My guess is that the springs will slightly overpower the front springs, maybe a bit more than slight if the shocks are shot, which can happen easily in less than 25K miles sometimes. You may not notice any overpowering happen, though, as you are used to low riding front end hitting the bump stops which will also overpower the shocks on medium to large bumps. My guess would be if the shocks are too weak for the springs you would notice it smaller dips as a bit of porpoising and maybe one wheel bumps would feel a bit disconnected. Bigger dips would likely porpoise now, but you probably have some of that already so might not be obvious. The most obvious thing you might see would be that you would still have the "pitching" on one wheel dips.



Whichever way it is, it really doesn't matter. If you like the way it drives with the OEM shocks, you just stay with them. If they feel a bit soft, you can then upgrade.
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Old 10-15-2018, 03:05 PM   #36
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Booster,
I ordered the Moogs already. Still wondering what I will do in the rear to level off.
Forgot to mention that my 03 pop 190 has 70000 miles and the front is already sitting on the bump stops and the back sitting on the overload leaf when parked.
Could that change your educated guess about handling.
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Old 10-15-2018, 03:36 PM   #37
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Booster,
I ordered the Moogs already. Still wondering what I will do in the rear to level off.
Forgot to mention that my 03 pop 190 has 70000 miles and the front is already sitting on the bump stops and the back sitting on the overload leaf when parked.
Could that change your educated guess about handling.
Regards

Most of them are on the overload in the rear with full load, so that is typical. In the front, most ar a bit off the overload by a small amount. The further you are on the overloads on either end the firmer and more progressive you will be now, so you are on the high end there. The difference between before and after is harder to predict, but I would guess the front should less harsh, but some will depend on the shocks. At 70K, if the shocks are original, they are likely getting very weak so any new shocks would make it feel a lot firmer. Again, if original, the shocks would likely be having trouble controlling especially the rebound off the bump stops and they would also probably have trouble controlling the new springs. Your control in the front should be greatly improved with new spring and shocks, if the ones in there now are original.


What you get in the rear will be dependent on how you do the lift. Lift blocks will leave the ride about the same. New springs matched to the actual weight will probably be similar on smaller bumps but less progressive if they design the spring right (many shops go firmer than they need to), and airbags will get you up off the overload on small to medium bumps and should improve ride. On larger bumps with the bags, the overloads will still contact the springpack on larger bumps and does generate some noise and harshness, though. To get rid of that issue, you would have to remove the overload leafs, which is not a mainstream change at this point as AFAIK we are the only ones that have done that. I think that it would also increase the need you already have to add a rear swaybar to counteract the handling affects of a softer rear ride.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:12 PM   #38
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Booster, do I understand that;
1-If I go with air bags (rear) that I would be more in need of a sway bar but gain a more comfortable ride
2- If I just put 2in. blocks there I will not be in as much need of a sway bar but result in a harsher ride (think identical to original setup)
Thanks again for your educated guess. Anyway I go, people will know the end result as I am sure lots are looking for an affordable upgrade.
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Old 10-16-2018, 11:48 PM   #39
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Booster, do I understand that;
1-If I go with air bags (rear) that I would be more in need of a sway bar but gain a more comfortable ride
2- If I just put 2in. blocks there I will not be in as much need of a sway bar but result in a harsher ride (think identical to original setup)
Thanks again for your educated guess. Anyway I go, people will know the end result as I am sure lots are looking for an affordable upgrade.

If you use air bags without removing the overload leaf in the springpack, the need for a swaybar won't really change much, if at all. It would change if you removed the overload to get better ride.


With the overload in place, if you raise the rear enough with airbags to get off of it with the rest of the pack, you will get slightly better ride, but only on smallish bumps with big ones not changing much.


The blocks will basically leave the rear springing as it is for roughness with perhaps a tiny loss in handling because of increased van height.


The need, or no need, for the rear swaybar will depend on if you want to change the handling characteristics of the van in the direction of reduced understeer, and secondarily to reduce rocking of the van in the wind. Understeer is in all the vans by design, but reducing it significantly is possible if you like driving a vehicle with less understeer like I do. Understeer symptoms are mostly how much steering wheel correction is needed to keep the van going in a straight line under various conditions. A stock van will probably be in the 1.5" steering wheel motion if the steering wheel parts are tight, and a van with lessened understeer may be as low as 1/2" of steering wheel motion. Some like the bigger motions and find the smaller ones to give "twitchy" handling, while others say the big motions are like driving a boat, so very personal perception based. Think of it as the difference between driving a "twitchy" BMW vs driving a "boaty" old rear drive Buick.



If you have a generator in place, adding a rear swaybar can get very expensive. Without a generator it is much less, but still not a cheap option.
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:45 PM   #40
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Booster,
Regarding air bags, I understand you seem to be the only one who has removed the overload leaf. What would be the pertinence of having the internal jounce type air bags if one does not remove the overload leaf ? It seems redundant to me.
Could I cause dammage to the air bags ?
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