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Old 11-27-2017, 02:33 AM   #1
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Default 12volt problem in coach

I have no 12 volt power in my coach from batteries. However, I do when plugged into 110 At first I thought it was my coach batteries being dead. However, they test fine. When pressing the switch to turn on 12volt power, I hear a solenoid clicking, but no 12volt power other than a small indicator light going on. However, when plugging into 110v, everything is fine. Obviously something has happened somewhere, but I do not know how to proceed.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!
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Old 11-27-2017, 03:15 PM   #2
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When plugged in, your converter is supplying 12 power to your plugs. I would find your solenoid and test for 12 volts when your switch is on. Your solenoid may have given up making a connection when energized. If bad, replace with a continuous duty solenoid rated at least 200 amps.
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Old 11-28-2017, 02:57 AM   #3
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Thanks for the response. You were correct with your analysis. When testing, there was no 12v on the coach side of the solenoid. However, I was able to temporarily solve the problem by repeatedly and quickly energizing and de-energizing the solenoid until 12v power became available. Either the solenoid was stuck or there was corrosion on the contacts that became cleared. How long this "fix" will last is, of course, not known.

The solenoid is in a very inaccessible place, hence replacement is not practical with my current travel plans. However, I do want to get a replacement on hand. In looking at Amazon I could not find one similar to my solenoid. My unit has a four wire harness coming to the solenoid for controlling it plus two 5amp blade fuses, one on each side of the body. It has the normal red and white wires to the front of the solenoid but there is a green and brown wire going towards the rear, one on each side. The switch on the coach control panel is spring loaded and only has one position--each push either energizes or de-energizes the solenoid. Do you have any suggestion where I could find such a solenoid? I cannot easily access it to get a name or model.

Thanks again for the help!
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Old 11-28-2017, 03:28 AM   #4
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Most likely you have an Intellitec bi-stable battery disconnect relay. I had intermitted problem with mine and replaced it with a new one. Mine was 2 years old. I took the old one apart and contact contamination was a problem, cleaned the contact and have a spare.
https://www.amazon.com/INTELLITEC-01...c+01-00055-000

Bluesea bi-stable relays have better silvered contacts - https://www.bluesea.com/products/770...enoid_-_12V_DC.
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:10 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gksmith View Post
.................. I cannot easily access it to get a name or model................
An endoscope can help, some are for iPhone some for Android https://www.amazon.com/DBPOWER-Water.../dp/B00JERRES6
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:51 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Most likely you have an Intellitec bi-stable battery disconnect relay. I had intermitted problem with mine and replaced it with a new one. Mine was 2 years old. I took the old one apart and contact contamination was a problem, cleaned the contact and have a spare.
The key to providing a long life for all power relays is to avoid energizing them, and particularly de-energizing them, under heavy loads.
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Old 11-28-2017, 08:15 PM   #7
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The key to providing a long life for all power relays is to avoid energizing them, and particularly de-energizing them, under heavy loads.
Indeed, but I am not sure that this was the cause of failure on my relay. An indication that it was the arcing failure would be contact surface pitting which just wasn’t there. I cleaned the grease off of the surface and it copper surface was like new. Most likely something happen with this grease, perhaps humidity?, temperature? resulting in high grease viscosity preventing actual copper to copper contact.

I talked to the factory engineer and was told that all of their relays contacts are lubricated with some type of contact grease. I found that this problem is not uncommon and relays can be cleaned and lubricated. http://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/solv...ms-229047.html This is the grease recommended by someone on the RV forum. https://www.amazon.com/Camco-55013-P.../dp/B0024E71JI
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Old 11-28-2017, 08:31 PM   #8
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[QUOTE=GeorgeRa;65271]Most likely you have an Intellitec bi-stable battery disconnect relay. QUOTE]

Well, the 12v did not connect again today, whereas everything was fine yesterday. Again, repeatedly energizing and de-energizing the solenoid fixed the problem. But I am getting quite nervous now.

I saw the Intellitec bi-stable battery disconnect relay on Amazon, but in the question section, one user stated I need a switch that enables reverse polarity to de-latch the solenoid, hence I did not believe it was the correct one. My switch is a spring loaded rocker switch with only one position. Plus the Intellitec does not show the fuses nor extra wires that I have.

Any other suggested solenoids?
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Old 11-28-2017, 09:27 PM   #9
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[QUOTE=gksmith;65282]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeRa View Post
Most likely you have an Intellitec bi-stable battery disconnect relay. QUOTE]

Well, the 12v did not connect again today, whereas everything was fine yesterday. Again, repeatedly energizing and de-energizing the solenoid fixed the problem. But I am getting quite nervous now.

I saw the Intellitec bi-stable battery disconnect relay on Amazon, but in the question section, one user stated I need a switch that enables reverse polarity to de-latch the solenoid, hence I did not believe it was the correct one. My switch is a spring loaded rocker switch with only one position. Plus the Intellitec does not show the fuses nor extra wires that I have.

Any other suggested solenoids?
Service manual for these relays:

https://www.intellitec.com/assets/pd...-100_rev_c.pdf
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Old 11-28-2017, 10:24 PM   #10
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There are a few of them, see the link. I would suggest to remove the relay and then make a decision: replace with the same one or a better one, or fix it. The symptoms which you are describing are very similar to my issues with the relay. As far as I know Intellitec is the most popular in the RV world, just having a single pole momentary switch doesn’t mean you don't have the Intellitec relay, could be that the RV manufacturer tried to simplified the wiring to the remote switch and added a polarity switching device next tot the rely. The relay has 2 fuses, 1 on each side.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bi-s...h=1260#imgrc=_

My relay wasn’t easy to be removed, since I made a 5 minutes job if necessary.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruising7388 View Post
Cruising7388 - The service manual you sent was VERY useful. The wiring diagram for the BD0 and BD1 exactly matches my installation!

I am still confused about my switch--how it works, as there is only one position for it. You press it once to energize and you press it again to de-energize. The rocker switch is always pressed in the same direction and nothing feels different on each press. Perhaps there is something "behind the scenes" taking place that I am not aware of. Any how, I will be ordering this unit.

Thank you to all of you that offered help. This site has certainly been useful for me!
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:23 AM   #12
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Good idea! I have one, but forgot about using it! I have never used it. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 11-29-2017, 02:44 AM   #13
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An endoscope can help
I should have included a quote in my previous post. As stated, I have an endoscope that I bought for other purposes, but I never used it and forgot about it. Thanks for the suggestion!

And again, thanks to everyone for all the help I received. I will be taking off too soon to receive my new solenoid and install it here, but will have it sent to my daughter who is part of my two month itinerary and install it there. Wish me luck!
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:18 AM   #14
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Well, it is me again! I tried to find the BD0 model of the Intellitec Solenoid, which is the model that seems to exactly match mine, but I cannot find it on the Web. However, I did find the KIB Electronics Battery Disconnect Latching Relay LR9806F, which has a picture that exactly matches my unit, including the warning decal. ( https://pdxrvwholesale.com/products/...-relay-lr9806f )

Does anyone know anything about this solenoid? I also wonder why I cannot find various models of the Intellitec solenoid, as I definitely want the BD0 model for it to be a perfect match per the schematic.
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Old 11-29-2017, 03:48 AM   #15
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I don't know KIB line, sorry. Good luck.
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Old 11-29-2017, 06:08 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by gksmith View Post
Cruising7388 - The service manual you sent was VERY useful. The wiring diagram for the BD0 and BD1 exactly matches my installation!

I am still confused about my switch--how it works, as there is only one position for it. You press it once to energize and you press it again to de-energize. The rocker switch is always pressed in the same direction and nothing feels different on each press. Perhaps there is something "behind the scenes" taking place that I am not aware of. Any how, I will be ordering this unit.

Thank you to all of you that offered help. This site has certainly been useful for me!
If the switch only has one position, it's probably a double throw double pole toggle switch that internally reverses the switch terminals with each press of the switch which reverses the polarity applied to the Intellitec windings. Mine was a BD2/3 dual unit that permitted disconnecting the coach batttery any time but to protect the alternator, the Intellitec engine battery solenoid would not open the engine battery path unless the engine ignition was off. The BD0 relay is only for use on a coach battery if it has no auxiliary ignition lockout relay.

The solenoid itself is, of course, the usual suspect, but don't rule out the possibility that it's a flaky switch. Before enduring the PITA of replacing the solenoid, I would remove the brown and white wires from the switch and alnternately apply and then reverse 12V and ground to these wires to see if the solenoid operates reliably or remains intermittent.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:42 PM   #17
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Well, I have almost solved my problem, but not quite. I have determined that my battery disconnect solenoid is also called a battery disconnect relay. And from the pictures, it is a KIB LR9806. But there seems to be various versions of it, such as LR9806F, LR9806WB, LR9806C, etc. and I do not know the difference. The specs at various selling sites just mention brands of motorhomes, but Leisure Travel is not mentioned. I even called Leisure Travel, but the coach is too old for the parts department to know, since it was bought out by another company.

The switch problem is now solved, though! The KIB battery disconnect relays are unique in that they become engaged and disengaged by a voltage surges of the SAME polarity. The polarity is NOT reversed. Consequently, the Intellitec units would not have worked in my situation. I thought this should be mentioned in case someone else has the same problem that I have.

I have asked this before, but does anyone have any knowledge of the various KIB battery disconnect relays?

Thanks
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:56 PM   #18
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I would contact them directly and wouldn’t be surprise that the difference is in attached wiring or type of terminals. POWER MANAGEMENT | KIB Electronics
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Old 11-30-2017, 02:26 AM   #19
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Well, I have almost solved my problem, but not quite. I have determined that my battery disconnect solenoid is also called a battery disconnect relay. And from the pictures, it is a KIB LR9806. But there seems to be various versions of it, such as LR9806F, LR9806WB, LR9806C, etc. and I do not know the difference. The specs at various selling sites just mention brands of motorhomes, but Leisure Travel is not mentioned. I even called Leisure Travel, but the coach is too old for the parts department to know, since it was bought out by another company.

The switch problem is now solved, though! The KIB battery disconnect relays are unique in that they become engaged and disengaged by a voltage surges of the SAME polarity. The polarity is NOT reversed. Consequently, the Intellitec units would not have worked in my situation. I thought this should be mentioned in case someone else has the same problem that I have.

I have asked this before, but does anyone have any knowledge of the various KIB battery disconnect relays?

Thanks
Thanks for the update. Live and learn. In 50 years of messing around in electronics I've never run across a latching relay activated without reversing polarity at the switch. If you have two conductors running from the KIB switch to the relay you could replace the KIB switch with a DPDT switch which would steer a replacement Intellitec relay properly. I like the Intellitec switch panel which also has voltage readout and LEDs to indicate the state of the relay.

The differing models have distinctive suffixes. The WB version is set up for Fleetwood coaches. The JBIP version is for Jayco coaches. The 9806C is the generic version but is discontinued in favor of the 9806CBIP which has a time delay network that cuts off power to the relay if the switch remains jammed in the energized position. The reason for this is these relays are typically wound to operate on voltages as low as 3-4 Volts. Consequently when the switch is energized the relay is is in an over voltage condition. Since the duty cycle is negligible this is of no consequence. But without the protective circuit, if the switch is jammed on for very long it can burn out the relay windings.
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Old 11-30-2017, 04:10 AM   #20
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[QUOTE=cruising7388;65329 I like the Intellitec switch panel which also has voltage readout and LEDs to indicate the state of the relay.
QUOTE]
The KIB switch panel has an LED that tells the state of the relay, but only LEDs to tell the state of the coach batteries. I will stick with the KIB relay for simplicity sakes, but I do appreciate your suggestion. I will try to contact the KIB company tomorrow to get more information--I tried today, but the offices were closed. Thank you for your additional input!
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