Florida State Parks - Really?

[booster]

Originally Posted by @Michael

Wyoming has an interesting take:



[Emphasis is mine]

I like that system a lot, especially the progressive penalties for repeated no shows. Very similar to what I had suggested earlier based on rules I had heard about but not seen.


Doesn't help to prevent single day reservation showups much, but the progressive penalties would certainly help a lot if they are chronically no shows.

[N147JK]

When folks say "I can't get there by such-and-such a time" that simply isn't true. It may not be convenient to get there at such-and-such a time, but yes, it's always doable. Example: "I have to drive a long way". Solution: drive a long way to get yourself close, then get there early the next day. A plan can always be made to make it work. But Winston has it right - unfortunately, money has been allowed to become the deciding factor.

[Punkinhead]

Originally Posted by N147JK

When folks say "I can't get there by such-and-such a time" that simply isn't true. It may not be convenient to get there at such-and-such a time, but yes, it's always doable. Example: "I have to drive a long way". Solution: drive a long way to get yourself close, then get there early the next day.

So someone with limited vacation needs to take an extra day and take their kids out of school a day early because you don't believe in reservations? And after "getting close" where exactly are they going to stay the night before trying to get to their ultimate destination?

[Snowy]

It seems like people have a diverse set of reasonable but conflicting needs, from making sure they will have a site to being able to wander around without plans. Both of these modes of travel should be accommodated IMHO. So if i were king, i'd start each park with some target, say 50% reservation spaces and 50% first come, first served (FCFS) spaces, and adjust rapidly based upon demand. They could also track what types of sites are demanded by reservers vs FCFSers, and maybe make reservation sites more like those desired by the reservers. There should be limits on the maximum amount set aside for reserved space so every park has at least one or some minimum percentage of FCFS sites. As far as regulating reserved space, Wyoming seems to have a better program than Florida. If i were king, i'd try to understand as many of the different systems that have been tried here in the US and abroad as practicable, use that to design a couple of reasonable policies, and conduct surveys of campers to try to decide the best policies. I'd implement the best plan(s), but conduct experiments with rule changes here and there to see how they work out, and whether different rules should apply to different or different types of campgrounds. These rules can always be revised by looking at demand numbers and camper input. A national system could be setup and states and localities could opt in and out, to try to reduce the administrative burden for all. Finally, as king i'd be happy to pay for it out of the royal treasury, but i don't think the cost would be much of an addition to what is already being spent. At least it shouldn't.

[@Michael]

Originally Posted by Snowy

So if i were king, i'd start each park with some target, say 50% reservation spaces and 50% first come, first served (FCFS) spaces, and adjust rapidly based upon demand.

Minnesota State Parks did this up until a few years ago. The rangers that I talked to said that for popular campgrounds it didn't work. Families were showing up at 7pm on Friday not knowing if they had a site, getting turned away and having to either drive another hour to the next park or head back home.

Their solution, which I support, is to require all sites to be reserved but to accept reservations on the same day. That allows last-minute campers to secure a site prior to leaving home and without having to drive from park to park looking for an open site. It does however, make it unlikely that one will find a site at a popular campground at the last minute.

In theory - as suggested in this and other threads, an alternative would be to hold back a small number of sites from being reserved until a week (or a day) before, allowing last-minute campers a shot at a site. If too many are held back though, sites will go empty.

[booster]

Originally Posted by @Michael

Minnesota State Parks did this up until a few years ago. The rangers that I talked to said that for popular campgrounds it didn't work. Families were showing up at 7pm on Friday not knowing if they had a site, getting turned away and having to either drive another hour to the next park or head back home.

Their solution, which I support, is to require all sites to be reserved but to accept reservations on the same day. That allows last-minute campers to secure a site prior to leaving home and without having to drive from park to park looking for an open site. It does however, make it unlikely that one will find a site at a popular campground at the last minute.

In theory - as suggested in this and other threads, an alternative would be to hold back a small number of sites from being reserved until a week (or a day) before, allowing last-minute campers a shot at a site. If too many are held back though, sites will go empty.

They have been tweaking it a bit lately, and I haven't checked lately, but the big issue I think still is no shows and no way to release the sites in time for others to use just like many other places.



The big problem in the North Shore parks is that they are 100% full a long time before the arrival days so no same day to find unless there is a cancellation. No cancellation no shows leave the site empty.



The Wyoming policy does address this for days after the first day, but not for the first day.



Perhaps adding a confirmation call/text/whatever by around noon of the day of arrival could be put on top of the Wyoming way, but only for one day reservations.

[Winston]

Originally Posted by @Michael

Families were showing up at 7pm on Friday not knowing if they had a site, getting turned away and having to either drive another hour to the next park or head back home.

Michael, we think you're addressing the issue of campground capacity. Most of us understand that, generally, there isn't enough campground capacity. Making a campground 100% reservation doesn't change that.

Those of us who travel by FCFS (First Come, First Served) know that arriving at 7pm Friday is an absolute formula for disappointment. FCFS campers know they must arrive early Friday or, better yet, on Thursday. No guaranty, even so, but we have a chance. With Minnesota's 100% reservation campgrounds, there is no time we can arrive and have a shot at a campsite, we're locked out.

But your hypothetical "family" has an alternative. Yes, they have to plan well in advance and reserve, but they have a means by which they can secure a site. Why not give the FCFS camper a chance as well?

[@Michael]

Originally Posted by Winston

With Minnesota's 100% reservation campgrounds, there is no time we can arrive and have a shot at a campsite, we're locked out.

The 100% reservation in MN and other states is effectively the same as FCFS, except without a hold-back of sites specifically for FCFS. If a site is available, you drive in, claim the site and pay. The only difference is whether or not you pay at a Ranger Station when you arrive or on your smartphone an hour before (or after) you get there.

The advantage to 100% Reservation is that if a site is available, I can guarantee myself a site as soon as I decide to visit a particular park - typically the morning of. With non-reserved, walk-up FCFS, I roll the dice and drive to the campground before knowing if I have a site and drive away if I don't.

Originally Posted by Winston

Why not give the FCFS camper a chance as well?

The related question is whether or not a fraction of sites should be held back for last-minute campers - either FCFS walk-ups or same-day online reservations.

With site availability a constrained resource, access must be prioritized using some mechanism. If prioritization is necessary, I see no reason that a park should deprioritize people who plan ahead in favor of those (like me) who do not.

It's coming up on a holiday weekend. Should airlines be required to hold empty seats just in case a last-minute passenger walks up to the counter and expects a seat?

[Winston]

Originally Posted by Snowy

So if i were king . . .

Having read your considered comments, we hereby appoint you King!