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Old 04-19-2015, 06:56 PM   #181
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

Could someone please post about the differences between an under-the-hood generator and an Onan generator? Not in technical terms but in terms of what it can and can't do. Does the under-the-hood one only charge the coach batteries and won't run the microwave or air conditioner or anything else on the 110V circuit?
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Old 04-19-2015, 08:04 PM   #182
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

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Could someone please post about the differences between an under-the-hood generator and an Onan generator? Not in technical terms but in terms of what it can and can't do. Does the under-the-hood one only charge the coach batteries and won't run the microwave or air conditioner or anything else on the 110V circuit?

depends on which model.

first off the underhood generator is a misnomer. its a system tied to a second alternator(280amps) ,special wiring,a large inverter/charger.

alternators charge batteries directly. the more alternator power the faster and better the charging.

inverter size depends on model and package. the classic e-trek has 8 6 volt batteries(880 amps at 12 volt-since most things in coach run 12 volt) erand 5000 watt inverter. the charger part of the inverter/charger only charges the batteries if shore power and in some models from the onan-it converts 120 volt to 12 volt. i have no idea how many amps because it seems to be a flexible setting on these inverter/chargers-i think 45 amps though.

the 1/2 trek package available on some models is 4 6 volt battaeris(440 amps at 12 volt). the alternator is still the extra 280 amp. 2500 watt inverter/charger.

the zion has the 280 amp extra alternator and a 2000 watt inverter charger. it has the special battery discussed which is about 210 amp hours compared to classic agm batteries.

the inverters are all limited by their size. the zion 2000 watts no matter how many amps the alternator going out. rest goes to battey charging.

the 1/2 trek 2500 watts is its max. the full e-trek 5000.

the onan is about 2800 watts. it would be capable of giving you 800 watts more than the zion,300 watts more than the 1/2 trek. 2200 less watts than the e-trek
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Old 04-20-2015, 12:11 PM   #183
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkroczak
Could someone please post about the differences between an under-the-hood generator and an Onan generator? Not in technical terms but in terms of what it can and can't do. Does the under-the-hood one only charge the coach batteries and won't run the microwave or air conditioner or anything else on the 110V circuit?
Yes you can run the microwave oven and yes you can run the air conditioner. The difference - in practical terms - is the length of time you could or would idle the engine versus running a traditional genset. With a traditional genset there's no limit to how long you can run it - as long as you have fuel. Follow the guidelines in owners manual for stationary operation or extended idling. Those guidelines will vary between the automotive manufacturers and will be different for gas and diesel engines.
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Old 04-20-2015, 02:43 PM   #184
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

Thanks!

Is the limit for the under-the-hood generator typically 1/4 chassis fuel tank? Is that what you mean? (Or however it is set)

> Yes you can run the microwave oven and yes you can run the air conditioner. The difference - in practical terms - is the length of time you could or would idle the engine versus running a traditional genset. With a traditional genset there's no limit to how long you can run it - as long as you have fuel. Follow the guidelines in owners manual for stationary operation or extended idling. Those guidelines will vary between the automotive manufacturers and will be different for gas and diesel engines.
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Old 04-20-2015, 04:05 PM   #185
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

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Originally Posted by bkroczak
Thanks!

Is the limit for the under-the-hood generator typically 1/4 chassis fuel tank? Is that what you mean? (Or however it is set)

> Yes you can run the microwave oven and yes you can run the air conditioner. The difference - in practical terms - is the length of time you could or would idle the engine versus running a traditional genset. With a traditional genset there's no limit to how long you can run it - as long as you have fuel. Follow the guidelines in owners manual for stationary operation or extended idling. Those guidelines will vary between the automotive manufacturers and will be different for gas and diesel engines.
the Roadtrek 'engine generator' is not really a generator. it is a system that gives most of the benefits of a generator. it uses the van engine for its power. as long as you have any gas to run the engine it will work
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Old 04-20-2015, 05:31 PM   #186
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

It's a generator. It doesn't matter if it gets it's power from the car engine or from a built in source to the generator. It generates power. It may differ in the traditional sense of a self powered generator, but it is a generator. It gives you all the benefits of a self powered generator.
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Old 04-20-2015, 05:41 PM   #187
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It's a generator. It doesn't matter if it gets it's power from the car engine or from a built in source to the generator. It generates power. It may differ in the traditional sense of a self powered generator, but it is a generator. It gives you all the benefits of a self powered generator.
without the inverter the 'engine generator' would just be an extra dc amp provider charging batteries.
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Old 04-20-2015, 05:58 PM   #188
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

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Originally Posted by gerrym51
Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdman
It's a generator. It doesn't matter if it gets it's power from the car engine or from a built in source to the generator. It generates power. It may differ in the traditional sense of a self powered generator, but it is a generator. It gives you all the benefits of a self powered generator.
without the inverter the 'engine generator' would just be an extra dc amp provider charging batteries.
Yep--exactly true, but the Onan would be just a source of AC power without the shore charger, no DC. They both work both ways, with the appropriate support equipment, which really is needed with both of the options. I think we have been accustomed to thinking RV stuff takes AC power to DC power, but there is really no real difference in going the other way. I think both are very viable options. I also think this will get more evident if things like solar, thermal cells, fuel cells, etc get larger and more efficient, as they mostly generate DC power.
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:00 PM   #189
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

In the outside world, the term "generator" is used to describe any device for changing mechanical energy to an electric current--any kind of current. In the RV industry, the word tends to informally imply a fuel-driven engine driving a 120VAC generator. Take your pick.
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Old 04-20-2015, 07:03 PM   #190
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

Very helpful. Thanks!
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Old 04-22-2015, 01:38 AM   #191
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkroczak
Thanks!

Is the limit for the under-the-hood generator typically 1/4 chassis fuel tank? Is that what you mean? (Or however it is set)

> Yes you can run the microwave oven and yes you can run the air conditioner. The difference - in practical terms - is the length of time you could or would idle the engine versus running a traditional genset. With a traditional genset there's no limit to how long you can run it - as long as you have fuel. Follow the guidelines in owners manual for stationary operation or extended idling. Those guidelines will vary between the automotive manufacturers and will be different for gas and diesel engines.
No, I wasn't referring to the 1/4 tank cutoff used with traditional gensets. I don't think the engine generator units have that. The van manufacturers ( Ram, Ford, Mercedes) will publish guidelines in the owner manuals for stationary operation or extended idling if guidelines are needed. I haven't seen anything about idling in the Promaster gas engine manual but there are guidelines in the diesel engine supplement manual for example.
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Old 04-22-2015, 02:02 AM   #192
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

I got to see a Zion last week at Fretz RV. It was just a quick visit. They have two I think. The rental unit was out on rental but they had a white unit (white interior / white exterior) just going into the service area to be prep'd. It felt nice & roomy inside. The beds were a bit softer than the 190P I had. The dual dump area had a molded locking cover that took a minute or two to figure out how to remove & replace. It would be easy to do the second time. Like I said, it was just a quick visit - a detour when I read that they had one in this topic. Fretz has a lot a Class B units in stock. I saw a new Red Travato 59G also. I recognized some Roadtrek specific parts in the store.
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Old 04-22-2015, 02:10 AM   #193
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

Quote:
Originally Posted by markopolo
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkroczak
Thanks!

Is the limit for the under-the-hood generator typically 1/4 chassis fuel tank? Is that what you mean? (Or however it is set)

> Yes you can run the microwave oven and yes you can run the air conditioner. The difference - in practical terms - is the length of time you could or would idle the engine versus running a traditional genset. With a traditional genset there's no limit to how long you can run it - as long as you have fuel. Follow the guidelines in owners manual for stationary operation or extended idling. Those guidelines will vary between the automotive manufacturers and will be different for gas and diesel engines.
No, I wasn't referring to the 1/4 tank cutoff used with traditional gensets. I don't think the engine generator units have that. The van manufacturers ( Ram, Ford, Mercedes) will publish guidelines in the owner manuals for stationary operation or extended idling if guidelines are needed. I haven't seen anything about idling in the Promaster gas engine manual but there are guidelines in the diesel engine supplement manual for example.

Remember the V6 gas in the ProMaster is the same one Chrysler uses in some of their police vehicles. Those sometimes idle for hours & hours in any weather with no issues, so I wouldn't be concerned in the least.
There's a guy on the ProMaster forum that's an expediter that sleeps in his V6 gas van when on the road. He leaves it idling all night when cold for heat inside. No issues so far for him either....
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Old 04-22-2015, 04:12 AM   #194
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

What was your thoughts on the size of the bathroom at the Zion at Fretz? Bigger than the normal Roadtrek baths?
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Old 04-22-2015, 01:13 PM   #195
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

I hardly remember it, sorry It seemed ok to me. I just wanted to have a quick look to get an impression of the Zion and overall it was positive.
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Old 04-22-2015, 01:52 PM   #196
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

Did the one at Fretz have the side couches in the back or the across the back one? Lake Region told us their were going to be across the back, but aren't here yet. I don't recall anyone actually seeing one of them anywhere yet.
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Old 04-22-2015, 02:03 PM   #197
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

Seating / bedding was on the sides.
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Old 04-22-2015, 02:05 PM   #198
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

Some great pics of the Zion here: http://www.fretzrv.com/Page.aspx/diid/8 ... -Zion.aspx

I thought they were only doing side couches, nothing across the back...
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Old 04-22-2015, 02:23 PM   #199
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Default Re: Roadtrek Zion - Promaster based Class B Motorhome

The only reason we think the across the back will be available was from a comment at the the Minneapolis RV show by a salesman from Lake Region RV. He said they had 3 Zions on order and they would have the across the back couch. As far as I know, nobody else has heard anything about it, but Gerry would probably be the most likely to know for sure.

On edit, I just found this on the Van City site

http://www.vancityrv.com/blog/2015/0...e-the-country/

They say the rear power sofa is an option.
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Old 04-22-2015, 02:36 PM   #200
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Interesting. I hadn't heard of that. I will ask.
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