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Old 05-06-2016, 12:16 AM   #21
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Well said. I couldn't agree more.
They make no pretense that these are family campers. Families have better choices for significantly less money.

These B's are the realm of DINKs, Singles, and Retirees. The DINKs and the Singles are generally being marketed to as Sports-Active types. The Retirees are being marketed to with luxury. Both these groups are not that price sensitive for the most part.

Probably the younger the buyer, the more price sensitive is my guess, as they still have their retirement financial goals in mind.
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Old 05-06-2016, 01:36 AM   #22
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They make no pretense that these are family campers. Families have better choices for significantly less money.
That may be true but it doesn't have to be. It certainly isn't true in Europe. The industry here has decided that what you say is true; however, there are hundreds of approaching $100K Mercedes and BMW SUVs driven by soccer moms in my town alone. Your point on younger families being price conscious is well taken, but there are plenty of people who have small families (or grandkids) that can afford these. The marketing people just haven't figured out how to go after them. Where I live everyone needs to have $1000+ buggaboo strollers because that was the stroller featured on Sex in the City... so it must be good (seriously, what baby needs a thousand dollar stroller?). The RV industry marketing and design people are the same folks that think we really really want swoopy paint jobs and busy fabrics. (Thank goodness that habit is evaporating from the B market).

I will respectfully disagree with your comment that there are BETTER choices (emphasis added) for significantly less money. I think "better" is probably in the eye of the beholder. If you want something that is drivable and can be parked in regular parking spots while touring the country, what's better than a class B? Even the smallest B+ (small C) is going to take up 4 spots in a parking lot (2 long and 2 wide). I've tried and really don't like towing trailers. Plus, if you want to park your RV in your driveway, you might get away with a class B, but the HOA will almost certainly frown on the swoopy painted Winnebago View.

If your point is that there are small RVs sized more appropriately for more than 2 people to camp comfortably and that those can be had for less than the average B, I would agree with you. But again, I think that's the case because the industry has pre-decided what the market wants. I wonder if a little effort could find a new market. Maybe not... but they did find it in Europe. Perhaps Americans would rather buy a $102K Mercedes E63 with a 5.5L Biturbo V8 capable of 0-60 in 3.7 seconds (if they could actually get up to 60 before hitting gridlock traffic on I-95). Personally, I'd rather inch along in 5 mile per hour traffic in a vehicle with a microwave and a toilet.
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Old 06-14-2016, 10:45 PM   #23
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I feel the same way about the G. I need the seat belts so the K is out too. I've been saying that Winnebago should offer another model Travato where they replace the rear fold down bed with a hinged folding sofa that makes into a bed.
I could not agree more. I'm an active 40 yr old with a small child and the 59G is the only layout that will allow my child to ride near us as opposed to the back of the coach. The 59G is one of the few Class Bs to offer sleeping for 3-4. For those reasons, the 59G would work for us while the Zion would not.

Making the rear bed a sofa on the driver's side with a detachable table that is supported by the bathroom wall would make a lot of sense. While I'm dreaming, add an option for a nicer window package and a lithium/engine generator option and I'll be at a Winnebago dealer quicker than you can say 'sold.'
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Old 06-16-2016, 03:27 PM   #24
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I am in the same boat as you travelling in a 59G with a 3 year old. The Travato G layout was the only choice available last year. the Hymer aktiv is similar and is available with the Li batteries, but i am not certain the dinette converts to a bed.

The 59G has been very solid, costs less than my daily driver, and meets 99% of the needs of a young family.

Really great affordable camper van.
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Old 06-16-2016, 04:27 PM   #25
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Basically, they need to do a Zion with the WGO flair and low price.
I agree. I wish WGO would come out with the Zion floorplan with their equipment and price I would be sold... Now if they could go to an underhood genny it would be even better.
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Old 06-16-2016, 07:17 PM   #26
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I am in the same boat as you travelling in a 59G with a 3 year old. The Travato G layout was the only choice available last year. the Hymer aktiv is similar and is available with the Li batteries, but i am not certain the dinette converts to a bed.

The 59G has been very solid, costs less than my daily driver, and meets 99% of the needs of a young family.

Really great affordable camper van.
I am glad to hear you like your 59G; it sounds like we have similar situations. Does the carseat fit in the 2nd row seat pretty well?

I've been really spoiled by watching the various youtube videos by user "motorhomecampervan." The European Ducatos have some floorplans that I would really be interested in. As others have stated, the quality of the interiors are much higher than most of our Class Bs.

..and what I'd give to have the diesel/manual transmission option...
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Old 06-17-2016, 02:58 PM   #27
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One Car seat fits fine. We stack the cushions between the Car seat and the window and it is totally comfortable. If I have another child I am in trouble.

Mt biggest concern for the Travato was the gas engine. 12000 miles and no worries. plenty of power and Torque. Propane is limited on his chassis.

My local dealer is not a huge fan of the Fiat diesel in America. he claims they secretly shudder when they have to service and repair them.

Small families are definitely the minority in the Class b van market.
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Old 06-17-2016, 05:44 PM   #28
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I think the major issue for the Promaster diesel would be finding a dealer with technicians qualified to work on it. The diesel and the transmission are widely used by several companies not just Fiat.
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Old 06-17-2016, 05:52 PM   #29
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Totally agree. I have always had diesels. ram dealers are new to this powertrain.

Truth of the matter is id rather have a manual diesel as well, but the gas pentastar on the Promaster is not actually bad at all. gas is pretty cheap right now, and the oil burner is a significant upcharge on the front end.

That said, its a camper van... I'm going to drive the wheels off of it and throw my muddy wading boots in the back- for me its pt A to ptB and a roof over my head for all my adventures
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Old 06-18-2016, 10:55 PM   #30
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I would normally choose a diesel but based on comments I have read from owners, the gas engine should work just fine for me. (Thanks for posting riplips.)

I went to an RV show today and love the floorplan of the ERA 70X most, with two second row seats for passengers AND the rear bed/seating area. It's the only floorplan that I like better than the Travato 59G, but it's a much more expensive coach and a little bigger than ideal. I really like the Zion as well, but having to put passengers in the very back is a big downside for me.

All things considered, the 59G checks most of my boxes and it doesn't hurt that it is the least expensive of the competition.
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Old 06-18-2016, 11:04 PM   #31
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if the 70x had two sleeping areas, I would have bought the 4x4
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