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Old 02-16-2019, 01:40 PM   #1
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Default A Post Roadtrek World - What to Do?

While we keep in our minds those who lost their jobs as a result of the Erwin Hymer Group NA Receivership announcement, the reality of the impact is starting to be felt by current owners as well.

Claudia Lawrence on February 16, 2019 at 7:14 am
Challenger shipping picked up my Roadtrek that was in Canada for warranty work on January 21st and they will not release it back to me because of the money Roadtrek owes them. I own this vehicle and do not owe anyone money but they will not release it to me. Does anyone have any ideas that might help. I’m devastated and have no idea what to do.


What options are out there for people who own a Roadtrek and need warranty service and what happens to the secondary market for pre-owned Roadtrek / Hymer NA RVs? Are these warranties non-enforceable?

The Erwin Hymer Group NA Twitter accounts have NOT been closed - as of yet
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Old 02-16-2019, 03:47 PM   #2
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Very sad. I hate to hear of Claudia's experience, but unfortunately there will be more stories like hers.

If Canada has something comparable to our "Mechanics Lien" she will have no choice but to pay the shop who performed the repairs. I started to add "and stand at the back of very long line of those with claims against Roadtrek", but I'm afraid there is nothing for those in the line.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:07 PM   #3
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She will be responsible for the costs of getting the rig to her, but not for any other monies owed by EHGNA to this company. That said, she will likely not have any easy time. She needs to get a good lawyer... hope she has one in her family. I would probably start with the local police claiming that her rig is being held hostage for monies owed by another.

Where did you find this post ClassB4me?

We had another poster on Facebook whose rig was at the factory for repairs, but it was a man. He too was concerned it would end up being held hostage. I haven't hit FB yet this morning. Yesterday evening there was over 300 posts to the 3 RT/Hy pages I am on and there has been 103 more since I went to bed last night.

Quote:
What options are out there for people who own a Roadtrek and need warranty service and what happens to the secondary market for pre-owned Roadtrek / Hymer NA RVs? Are these warranties non-enforceable?
We will have to pay for repairs and there will be no recourse. If the company is purchased, the new buyer is not responsible unless they choose to honor the warranties for the PR value. In any and all bankruptcies, the customers are at the end of the line and nothing is ever left.

Because of the rarity and demand for Class B units... especially those under 20ft... I expect that after 2-3 years, the drop caused by the current situation will wear off... just as most of these 6 year warranties would be expiring anyway.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:28 PM   #4
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I think any customer ordered vans that are actually within the EHG properties will be the tough ones to get out, because they will hold all property until clear ownship is proven. If an owner has a loan on a unit, likely the bank or finance company could help with that.


If the unit is being held by the freight company, they would be putting a lien on it that would need to be paid, but the owner should be able to get it out without issue or any Hymer related stuff needed.
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Old 02-16-2019, 05:54 PM   #5
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Upon reflection, doesn't Erwin Hymer have some responsibility to all the Hymer products that were sold here in America? Hymer is stamped all over them and they are virtually identical to their German counterparts.

To simply turn off the lights, lock the gates, and power down the web servers is pretty shady.

Jim Hammill and others are making out like bandits (pun intended). Not a word is being mentioned about their actions and the EHG NA closure is being treated in the media like any other company closure,

Roadtrek - A Look Back

CTV News has made no effort to contact Hammill, Stratton, or any of the other managers of EHG NA. Other news organizations would have had a live news-station van and cameras rolling at their respective homes seeking comment.
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Old 02-16-2019, 06:32 PM   #6
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From Greg Gerber's article on RV Daily Report:

Quote:
There is already talk among suppliers about filing a class action lawsuit against Erwin Hymer Group, which just sold all of its European operation to Thor Industries.
Source link: https://rvdailyreport.com/industry/h...-entire-staff/

EHG/Thor might not be completely out of this yet depending what suppliers and creditors decide to do.
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:30 PM   #7
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Of course, anyone can sue for any reason. Whether it can go anywhere is another matter.
I doubt that the Hymer family is exposed to any liability. They are shielded by the corporate structure. Most likely, EHGNA will have a mountain of claims and judgements, far exceeding any assets available to divvy up. I wouldn't waste the legal fees to press any claims, as there are no hard assets and no cash.
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Old 02-16-2019, 10:50 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by wincrasher View Post
Of course, anyone can sue for any reason. Whether it can go anywhere is another matter.
I doubt that the Hymer family is exposed to any liability. They are shielded by the corporate structure. Most likely, EHGNA will have a mountain of claims and judgements, far exceeding any assets available to divvy up. I wouldn't waste the legal fees to press any claims, as there are no hard assets and no cash.
Here ya go

I would preserve the link as documents will probably be coming into this site fast and furious over the coming weeks / months.

Legal Filing - Canada Office Erwin Hymer Group North America, Inc.

Have to run out to a dinner party.... Anything interesting?
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Old 02-16-2019, 11:24 PM   #9
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Looks pretty dire with essentially no way out.


Loans near end and some of the inventory are secured so they will get the assets like bare vans, or named facility items.


Financial games said could go back to before Hymer, perhaps even to before the Roadtrek sale to the turnaround group?


Flatly blaming bad management, and maybe crooked management.


All directors also gone except one, maybe Jeff H?


Stated the financial shenanigans contributed largely to the demise of the business.


Sounds like Hammill and his Budd cronies milked it dry and everyone else will suffer is going to be the most likely ending.
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:16 AM   #10
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someone else stated that the production facilities are leased - so you are talking about shop tools, intellectual property and some parts inventory. Who would buy up that stuff in Canada and set up shop again? Nobody. I see maybe some bids for the Roadtrek brand, patents and designs. That stuff is easily transferable to all the other players.

In my view, none of the majors will bite. Maybe they'll buy the brand and file it away to reintroduce some day in the future. They weren't interested in the operation when Roadtrek was initially sold, and they weren't interested at the time it was sold to Hymer. Nobody really needs to expand right now.
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:17 AM   #11
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That's a lot of stuff to read through!

I don't think Jeff H. has any involvement except maybe as landlord (just a guess).
Jeffrey M. looks to be the Director the stuff is addressed to.
Both main buildings leased, not owned it appears.
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:23 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by wincrasher View Post
someone else stated that the production facilities are leased - so you are talking about shop tools, intellectual property and some parts inventory. Who would buy up that stuff in Canada and set up shop again? Nobody. I see maybe some bids for the Roadtrek brand, patents and designs. That stuff is easily transferable to all the other players.

In my view, none of the majors will bite. Maybe they'll buy the brand and file it away to reintroduce some day in the future. They weren't interested in the operation when Roadtrek was initially sold, and they weren't interested at the time it was sold to Hymer. Nobody really needs to expand right now.
Ok I'll play RossWilliams since he has not returned and hope is in very short supply.

Mr. wincrasher, do you remember the dire straits Harley Davidson was in, I think about 1983 when they were purchased and by whom. I'm a skeptic, anything is possible.

Still, I heard Mr. booster was polishing his ax.

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Old 02-17-2019, 12:27 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by markopolo View Post
That's a lot of stuff to read through!

I don't think Jeff H. has any involvement except maybe as landlord (just a guess).
Jeffrey M. looks to be the Director the stuff is addressed to.
Both main buildings leased, not owned it appears.

I was going by a post on the Yahoo board that mentioned that when Jeff H left the day to day, he kept a seat on the board. I have no idea if he is still there or not, but with all but one gone, it sounded like it could be as he would maybe be less tainted by the culture issues.



I wonder how many, if any, of the actual board members were involved?
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:44 AM   #14
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Jeff H. was actually on one of the TV reports. I think they said he remained as a Director until 2016 when Hymer acquired Roadtrek.
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Old 02-17-2019, 07:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud View Post
Ok I'll play RossWilliams since he has not returned and hope is in very short supply.

Mr. wincrasher, do you remember the dire straits Harley Davidson was in, I think about 1983 when they were purchased and by whom. I'm a skeptic, anything is possible.

Still, I heard Mr. booster was polishing his ax.

Bud
There are not many stories similar to Harley Davidson in the business world. They had the benefit of favorable demographics for the product willing to pay huge margins. Remember, they were paying $50k for motorcycles that the other brands were selling for less than $10k. The stars would really need to align to find customers like that. It may have only bought them some time. All their customers in the US are aging out of buying high-end motorcycles. HD is desperately trying to find customers overseas attracted to the US nostalgia. How long that will still be cool is anyone's guess.

If I was sitting on the money to buy Roadtrek, I'd probably just by the brand and set up a small shop in the US and follow Advanced RV's model. There is definitely demand at the extreme high end, but as a boutique builder. I think the days of a Roadtrek building 1000+ vans a year are over.
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Old 02-17-2019, 11:40 AM   #16
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Default From the court filings

In my scan of the filings, here are some things that particularly caught my eye:

A Nov. 30, 2017 audit by Ernst and Young giving EHGNA a clean bill of health. (See part 2 of the Application Record In the Motion Materials section.)

The company was not only unable to pay creditors, it lacked funds to meet payroll and was on the verge of “a permanent and abrupt cessation of operations.” (Application Record, part 1)

“At this time, the investigation into the financial irregularities is not complete and their full extent is not yet known. However, it appears that these financial irregularities materially impacted the viability of the business of ENA and preliminary indications are that (i) the profitability of certain of the EHG NA Entities was materially exaggerated or otherwise mischaracterized, and (ii) such financial irregularities were pervasive throughout ENA and may have pre-existed Erwin Hymer Global Group's acquisition of ENA.” (Application Record, part 1)
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:21 PM   #17
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In my scan of the filings, here are some things that particularly caught my eye:

A Nov. 30, 2017 audit by Ernst and Young giving EHGNA a clean bill of health. (See part 2 of the Application Record In the Motion Materials section.)

The company was not only unable to pay creditors, it lacked funds to meet payroll and was on the verge of “a permanent and abrupt cessation of operations.” (Application Record, part 1)

“At this time, the investigation into the financial irregularities is not complete and their full extent is not yet known. However, it appears that these financial irregularities materially impacted the viability of the business of ENA and preliminary indications are that (i) the profitability of certain of the EHG NA Entities was materially exaggerated or otherwise mischaracterized, and (ii) such financial irregularities were pervasive throughout ENA and may have pre-existed Erwin Hymer Global Group's acquisition of ENA.” (Application Record, part 1)

If the first and third items are both correct, Ernst and Young could be in for a very embarrassing time with it all. I don't know if auditors carry any responsibility legally if they miss something like this, but it it an interesting question.
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Old 02-17-2019, 12:30 PM   #18
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If the first and third items are both correct, Ernst and Young could be in for a very embarrassing time with it all. I don't know if auditors carry any responsibility legally if they miss something like this, but it it an interesting question.
Back in 2002 Arthur Anderson, one of the top accounting audit firms at the time, went out of business because it had been giving clean bills of health to Enron right up to its collapse. Of course EHGNA is small change next to Enron, but I agree this will be very embarrassing for E&Y at a minimum. The partner in charge of the audit will have a lot to answer for.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:34 PM   #19
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Not sure if it was mentioned on this page, but EHGNA is now owned by a Delaware based Limited Liability Company know as Corner Flag LLC. That is presumably (read this claim but not sure because nothing googles up about this company) the Hymer family.

Why do I see Thor lurking in the shadows waiting for the bankruptcy to be filed and they will swoop in and buy the one worthwhile asset... the Roadtrek names and related paperwork.

Then they might take advantage of a large hole in the Class B market... which were a EHGNA big seller... Promaster rigs under 20 ft. No one else is making them and many of us MUST have something under 20ft.

Right now there are only two Sprinter based units under 20... PW Accent and WB Revel... neither of which I would have the least interest in owning.
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:39 PM   #20
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Back in 2002 Arthur Anderson, one of the top accounting audit firms at the time, went out of business because it had been giving clean bills of health to Enron right up to its collapse. Of course EHGNA is small change next to Enron, but I agree this will be very embarrassing for E&Y at a minimum. The partner in charge of the audit will have a lot to answer for.
Since the Enron days, accounting firms are much more careful about disclaimers and limiting their liability. Most likely the Erst & Young audit was a document only audit. If they were presented with false or fraudulent documents, they may have a argument that the principals of the company perpetrated a fraud on them. They could actually have a counter-claim on that basis.
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