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Old 01-22-2020, 06:58 PM   #1
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Default Are Renogy 170Ah LI batteries as good an idea as they seem?

Product Under question: https://www.renogy.com/lithium-iron-...12-volt-170ah/

This battery is only slightly larger than my 100-ish Ah AGMs, and should provide slightly more than 3x the usable power if I'm doing the math right in my head.

They also weigh less.

In my fever-dream, I can imagine replacing my generator with 4 of these things, putting two into my rig's existing battery mounts, and having enough stored power to fly to the moon with cold beer in my fridge the whole way, eating microwaved meals!

By all accounts I can find, Renogy is a "trusted" company. Many seem to like BattleBorn more, but that could easily be because BB does more outreach. BB is also more expensive, and does not have a 170Ah model.

If the disassembly video on Youtube is accurate across model lines, Renogy uses "gel pack" cells, which likely accounts for their batteries being lighter than other LI options.

So, in the end, I'm really tempted, but am I missing something? Is there some deep-dark secret I don't know about?
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Old 01-22-2020, 07:27 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFatGuy View Post
Product Under question: https://www.renogy.com/lithium-iron-...12-volt-170ah/

.......................................

If the disassembly video on Youtube is accurate across model lines, Renogy uses "gel pack" cells, which likely accounts for their batteries being lighter than other LI options.
...................................
Renogy's newer 100Ah battery has pouch cells.

The link you provided lists the cells in the 170Ah battery. They are 26650 cells (26mm x 65mm cylindrical cells). Each cell is 3.4AH. Assembly 4S53P so that's 212 cells in total. At 12V that's 3.4Ah x 53 = 180Ah possible.

I haven't seen any bad reviews about them. It would be nice to see a teardown video of a Renogy cylindrical cell battery to see how they're packed. The newer 100Ah with pouch cells looks well constructed.


Maybe give some thought to how much control over the system and what features would meet your needs. Do you need a built-in low temperature cut-off or would you want to choose the low voltage disconnect set point for example.
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:09 PM   #3
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Maybe give some thought to how much control over the system and what features would meet your needs. Do you need a built-in low temperature cut-off or would you want to choose the low voltage disconnect set point for example.
That is a good point of difference, no low-temp cutoff. However, given that Battleborn's low-temp cutoff is (IIRC) -4F, I feel certain in asserting that I will never camp in temperatures that low.

I can also live with a pre-set low-voltage cutoff, since these batteries would dramatically increase my stored power.
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:46 PM   #4
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I think battle born "are" a better battery and a good value with a ten year warranty. Renogy is not a bad company and I think you would be happy with their batteries. I would not use either as a starting battery. And you'll need a battery charger for the battery you buy. Lead acid chargers will not work and may destroy your large investment. So other then a few tidbits different and a large investment your not missing anything. Most people have a hard time coming up with that price. Also you may want to look at future additions and buy with that in mind. You won't be happy if you spend a bunch on a charger and it won't work when decide to add 2 more batteries. Same with other system parts. Good luck!
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:58 PM   #5
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Also you may want to look at future additions and buy with that in mind.
This is all part of a VERY long term plan.

I, like most, do not have that much money burning a hole in my pocket.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:25 PM   #6
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Hi: I believe the Renogy is a good product. The warranty is 5 years prorated for their lifepo battery. I looked at them. I am leaning towards GSL products. Only issue is one has to purchase thru Alibaba to get best price. I believe their 12/200ah would be around $900 and another $200 shipping(marine). Their warranty is five years not prorated. It may be difficult to get it honored since they are in China?
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:37 PM   #7
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I used the "old" Renogy 100Ah Lithium batteries for the simple reason they fit the inside area where I wanted to install them, being they are slightly smaller than Battleborn's and Renogy's "new" 100Ah batteries. Getting them on sale for $200 each less than Battleborn's was nice, but size was the deciding factor.

If the 170Ah Renogy's fit your space best, they should work well. They have the same cells as my 100Ah ones and the same internal BMS with temperature cut-off and low & high voltage protections. Just know, whatever you decide, you need to keep all the same brand and model. You can't even mix sizes.

If you go lithium, you'll also need a new lithium-compatible inverter/charger, a DC to DC charger to isolate and charge your coach batteries from your lead-acid engine battery, and a State of Charge monitor.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:38 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by BigFatGuy View Post
Battleborn's low-temp cutoff is (IIRC) -4F,
Battleborn’s low temp cut off is +25F, I think.

I’d feel better with +35F but lithiums should be inside anyhow.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:42 PM   #9
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The 170ah is interesting, but seems to have some caveats:

Maximum Charge Current:50A

Cycle Life (0.2C, 205C):100% DOD 1500 cycles

Discharge Temp:-10C~50C

Only rated for 1500 cycles at 100% discharge (but 7000 cycles at 50% discharge), can't discharge below 14F, and can only charge at 50A.

But it's only $1300 for 170ah - quite a bit cheaper than other makes.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:46 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by @Michael View Post
The 170ah is interesting, but seems to have some caveats:

Maximum Charge Current:50A

Cycle Life (0.2C, 205C):100% DOD 1500 cycles

Discharge Temp:-10C~50C

Only rated for 1500 cycles at 100% discharge, can't discharge below 14F, and can only charge at 50A.

But it's only $1300 for 170ah - quite a bit cheaper than other makes.

One thing that many shoppers neglect to consider is that with any big back, and especially ones that have hard limits on charge rate, is that they will likely accept way more than their limit amount, so it is up the installer to provide a current limiting device and/or proper wiring sizes and protection. There are several options available but they all will increase the overall cost significantly by the time you also get a compatible charger and maybe solar controller.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:53 PM   #11
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The current sale at Renogy's website is not their lowest price, but to get an additional 10% at checkout, you can try using the code below from a poster at airforums.com below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMFL View Post
Hey guys. Just a heads up. Renogy just bumped my discount code up to 10% site wide. http://www.renogy.com/?afmc=AirstreamNutsandBolts
Use discount code: AirstreamNutsandBolts at checkout.
The discount says it is not valid on sale items, but it worked when I tried it yesterday on their sale batterries (it was only a test and I didn't click the "buy" button). However, you can do better if you are patient and catch one of their Amazon "Flash" sales.
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:02 PM   #12
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Hi: I am looking to increase my battery bank from 400Ah to 900Ah. Want to run my air conditioner much longer. My project will be 10-12 months long. If you are interested. I will be selling my old lifepo batteries. I have four of them. Two are Life Blue about 13 months old at this time. The remaining two are Eco Smart and came as OEM from Pleasureway. They are about 4 plus years old. My PW is 2016 model. If I sold them today. I would ask $500 for the life blues and $250 for the eco smart batteries. They have been well cared for. I do not camp in cold weather. The life blue are inside the coach and eco smart are in a metal box outside. FYI
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:09 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by rowiebowie View Post
If the 170Ah Renogy's fit your space best, they should work well. They have the same cells as my 100Ah ones and the same internal BMS with temperature cut-off and low & high voltage protections.
Good to know, thanks! Like I said above, I'm still at the "fever dream" stage of this plan. They "should" fit, but I'd need to lift the rig and climb underneath to be absolutely sure... I wonder if they'd sell me an empty case for fitment testing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rowiebowie View Post
Just know, whatever you decide, you need to keep all the same brand and model. You can't even mix sizes.
Naturally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rowiebowie View Post
If you go lithium, you'll also need a new lithium-compatible inverter/charger, a DC to DC charger to isolate and charge your coach batteries from your lead-acid engine battery, and a State of Charge monitor.
yeah, this would be a real gut-and-replace of the 12V system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hbn7hj View Post
Battleborns low temp cut off is +25F, I think.

Id feel better with +35F but lithiums should be inside anyhow.
(counting on my fingers... carry the 1...) I guess I was thinking -4C?
I emailed Battleborn, and they said their batteries usually live quite well in exterior carriage... and I definitely don't have room in my interior for a bunch of them... but I still do my best not to get near freezing temperatures. Neither my wife nor my RV like them much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Michael View Post
Maximum Charge Current:50A
Yeah, I figure I'd go with a Renogy charger just to make sure everything stays kosher, and keep the charger current / # of batteries such that this limit is respected. Even Battleborn prefers a 50% charge rate, so I guess this is just kind of a thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by @Michael View Post
Cycle Life (0.2C, 205C):100% DOD 1500 cycles
This, I did notice. I'll admit being a little unsure of what constitutes a "cycle", but assuming one cycle/day, 4 years out of batteries isn't terrible. I can extend that by disconnecting the batteries when not camping, naturally... so the things should last plenty long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Michael View Post
Discharge Temp:-10C~50C
14F to 122F. Not an issue. I'd go home... and I really work hard not to camp in Phoenix in the middle of August.

Quote:
Originally Posted by @Michael View Post
But it's only $1300 for 170ah - quite a bit cheaper than other makes.
if I weren't living in So. Cal, and was living in my rig full time, it might not work, but I can take advantage, for sure.


I have a feeling finances will require me to go with a couple of 100Ah BattleBorns for now, since they brag about how they are drop-in-replacements, and my current charger/solar/etc. works OK with their ratings... and then try to find a way to pay for this dream upgrade... but it's nice to dream, that's for sure.
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:33 PM   #14
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What good is a "cut off" at -4F? which is -20C If your batteries get that cold they could be permanently damaged? -4C is about 25F. That is in no man's land and too cold if that is a cut off for charging. The cut off should be about 41F and definitely above freezing for charging. Lithium ion batteries can be discharged down to 14F (-10C). Those are all battery internal temperatures, not ambient air temperatures.
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Old 01-23-2020, 12:28 AM   #15
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Hi: On the Pleasure Way Facebook group. One of the members replaced his lithiums with 12/300ah from China. I contacted him last week. He has had these batteries for 1.5 years. Running his air conditioner, etc. He says still running well. He paid more for them a couple of years ago. Prices are down about 15 percent more.

Here is a link to the company:
https://www.facebook.com/yinkaipowertech/

FYI
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Old 01-23-2020, 05:13 PM   #16
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Hi: On the Pleasure Way Facebook group. One of the members replaced his lithiums with 12/300ah from China. I contacted him last week. He has had these batteries for 1.5 years. Running his air conditioner, etc. He says still running well. He paid more for them a couple of years ago. Prices are down about 15 percent more.

Here is a link to the company:
https://www.facebook.com/yinkaipowertech/

FYI
300Ah... drool...

I realize these batteries are all sourced from Asian parts, and "Made In America" isn't all it sounds like... but I just don't trust Chinese vendors for things that might set my RV on fire. Perhaps it's the curmudeonly right-wing-gun-nut who lives on my shoulder, perhaps it's nervousness left over from the fact that I worked at Boeing while their 787's batteries were bursting into flames (not the same kind of battery, I know...)... but I just feel better buying "American"... such as it is.
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Old 01-23-2020, 05:16 PM   #17
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Hi: I understand entirely!
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:48 AM   #18
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Here's a spec sheet from Renogy's website on their batteries. I inserted Fahrenheit temps for those like me that have trouble converting.

PS- I did not leave off operating temps for their 170Ah lithium battery. It was blank on their website. Strange, or maybe just an oversight.
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File Type: jpg Renogy Battery Specs.jpg (157.8 KB, 30 views)
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:59 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rowiebowie View Post
Here's a spec sheet from Renogy's website on their batteries. I inserted Fahrenheit temps for those like me that have trouble converting.

PS- I did not leave off operating temps for their 170Ah lithium battery. It was blank on their website. Strange, or maybe just an oversight.
Here's a couple of Renogy docs with temp ratings:

https://www.renogy.com/content/files...anual_V1.0.pdf
https://www.renogy.com/content/files...LFP-12-170.pdf

The 170ah is rated at -10c, the 50 and 100ah are rated at -20c.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rowiebowie View Post
Here's a spec sheet from Renogy's website on their batteries. I inserted Fahrenheit temps for those like me that have trouble converting.

PS- I did not leave off operating temps for their 170Ah lithium battery. It was blank on their website. Strange, or maybe just an oversight.
Some of the AGM related info on their site must be very wrong. No charging at 32F & below seems/is preposterous. That makes every other bit of info suspect.
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