Roadtrek Ecotrek and Voltstart

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

.................

the last 5 ecotreks i know of seem to be working fine ...............

That's great news. Thanks for the update.

[wincrasher]

What we don't know is how many are being sold with the voltrek. It's a fairly expensive option for what it is. It's still kind of boggling the combination of options and configurations and all the variables imposed.

The 200 ah setup is standard if I understand correctly. I'd wager that the vast majority are equipped that way with no other bells and whistles, and therefore, probably working correctly.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

What we don't know is how many are being sold with the voltrek. It's a fairly expensive option for what it is. It's still kind of boggling the combination of options and configurations and all the variables imposed.

The 200 ah setup is standard if I understand correctly. I'd wager that the vast majority are equipped that way with no other bells and whistles, and therefore, probably working correctly.

Incorrect-all ecotrek(lithium) is an option.


AGM is standard

[wincrasher]

Interesting. I thought that was the whole point was to force the move to lithium.

Wasn't it a free upgrade at the roll-out?

I'd love to know what the numbers on sales are then. I'd bet very few are springing for the lithium.

[gregmchugh]

I would expect the 400 ah Ecotrek would be the most common lithium option on customer ordered Chevy or Zion models, maybe larger capacity ordered on the Sprinter vans. At least based on the ones people have reported buying on the Facebook groups this would be my guess. Not sure what the dealers order for stock units but likely similar to what customers are ordering. I think most of the 200 ah Ecotrek modules are the freebies Roadtrek was giving away as part of their promotion offer.

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by wincrasher

Interesting. I thought that was the whole point was to force the move to lithium.

Wasn't it a free upgrade at the roll-out?

I'd love to know what the numbers on sales are then. I'd bet very few are springing for the lithium.

most people who order are getting lithium

[gregmchugh]

Not sure about that Gerry, I will agree that most people who are on the Roadtreking and Roadtrek Owners Group that report on ordering a Roadtrek seem to be getting the lithium option. What percentage of the total customer and dealer orders have the lithium option may not be so clear but it is possible that the majority now are with lithium batteries. Wonder how many Onans are being ordered these days on the vans that have the engine generator option available?

I do know that these numbers are zero for Winnebago Class Bs since they don't offer these options, right Wincrasher? Of course there are advantages to being a follower with new features. Not necessarily bad to wait for all the kinks to be worked out...

It would be nice to have the truma in the Zion though...

[Davydd]

I'm at a bit of a loss to why anyone would put in an Onan generator if they have the second alternator under the hood.

[markopolo]

Advanced RV would be the tech / luxury leader. (high end / advanced features)

Winnebago leads in market share. (value / bang for your buck)

[markopolo]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I'm at a bit of a loss to why anyone would put in an Onan generator if they have the second alternator under the hood.

I could say that about even needing the second alternator!

Basic coach, 400ah or less & single alternator / inverter system would work for me.

[wincrasher]

I found that I had alot of anxiety letting the engine idle for several hours. It really surprised me as I figured I'd be OK with it. I'm really not.

BTW, a diesel engine idling is not really any less noisy than an Onan. A gas engine is a good bit less noisy, but there is a hell of a lot more exhaust than a genset.

The only reason I could possibly want the extra alternator would be so I could run the overhead AC off an inverter while underway. But I can do that just fine with the Onan, as it pretty much is silent when driving down the road - guess there is plenty of other noise masking it's sound.

I carry a pocket inverter in case I need some 110v. I pretty much have everything 12v or propane now without the need for an AC appliances.

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I'm at a bit of a loss to why anyone would put in an Onan generator if they have the second alternator under the hood.

Edited my prior post so davydd would not be confused by my less than precise use of the English language. You do realize that engineers take English as their foreign language requirement so we can learn to communicate with the other people, guess I didn't do so good in that class?

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by markopolo

Advanced RV would be the tech / luxury leader. (high end / advanced features)

Winnebago leads in market share. (value / bang for your buck)

Unless you think that Roadtrek will never get the new stuff working then I suggest they end up between the two with the main question being can they sell enough of them and have satisfied customers at their current prices with their current quality level (after the current issues are resolved) or do they need to make changes to stay competitive in between Winnebago and Advanced RV? Not that many people are interested in doing the custom Advanced RV thing so there is room in the market for Roadtrek between the two if they can capitalize on it. Time will tell...

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by gregmchugh

Not sure about that Gerry, I will agree that most people who are on the Roadtreking and Roadtrek Owners Group that report on ordering a Roadtrek seem to be getting the lithium option. What percentage of the total customer and dealer orders have the lithium option may not be so clear but it is possible that the majority now are with lithium batteries. Wonder how many Onans are being ordered these days on the vans that have the engine generator option available?

I do know that these numbers are zero for Winnebago Class Bs since they don't offer these options, right Wincrasher? Of course there are advantages to being a follower with new features. Not necessarily bad to wait for all the kinks to be worked out...

It would be nice to have the truma in the Zion though...

the zion has the Girard tankless water heater-works great for us especially if on shore water.

I also said 'ordered' roadtreks. people who know what they want not one's just buying off lots. those are ordering ecotrek

[gerrym51]

Originally Posted by Davydd

I'm at a bit of a loss to why anyone would put in an Onan generator if they have the second alternator under the hood.

why do some men wear belts with suspenders?

same principle-lol

[gregmchugh]

Originally Posted by gerrym51

the zion has the Girard tankless water heater-works great for us especially if on shore water.

I also said 'ordered' roadtreks. people who know what they want not one's just buying off lots. those are ordering ecotrek

But you only have a very small sample of data from the complete set of customer orders in the Roadtrek queue. Not everyone is reporting their order info where you can see it...

[Davydd]

Originally Posted by markopolo

I could say that about even needing the second alternator!

Basic coach, 400ah or less & single alternator / inverter system would work for me.

The second alternator works independently from the engine alternator and more importantly is not subservient to the chassis computer management which will satisfy the engine first. Thus the second alternator is capable of much more charging power than you will get off the engine alternator.

You can run your air conditioner driving down the road if you desire. You can charge a day's worth of battery usage in a campground in under 20 minutes typically with well over 200 amp input. I don't think an Onan generator delivers that much charging. Correct me if I am wrong on that. I satisfy that driving into town for a six pack of beer replenishment if staying over. As for running an Onan vs the engine in a campground for air conditioning I find both options rather stupid. I've always said it that is necessary one should plan ahead and camp with shore power because boondocking in the quiet, serene wilderness with both an engine generator running and air conditioning at the same time is someone's version of camping hell. As for me, the need has been non-existent shore power or not.

The biggest obvious advantage of a second alternator is not having the maintenance of a second internal combustion engine. Also, not having one reduces weight and frees up a lot of under chassis space for more batteries (in my case).

As for idling, it just hasn't been necessary with the exception of playing around with the feature.

If lithium ion batteries become more prevalent and acceptable, they will couple with more amp hours because of the weight and space advantages. I think the second alternator will be the preferred option.

They are both well over $3,000 options and in many ways are designed for the same tasks. For me I was able to delete the propane option entirely for even greater savings.

[pattonsr]

Davydd summed up the advantages of a well integrated Nations second alternator.

Advanced RV always goes for elegance and simplicity in all their systems (the hallmark of great engineering). The only thing I would like offered as an option is to replace the Outback 2800 watt inverter/charger with a Magnum MSH3012M 3000 watt hybrid inverter/charger.

I live in Texas so extreme hot weather camping is normal. A small quiet inverter generator from Yamaha or Honda would provide most of the power for running A/C with the extra juice coming from the batteries via the hybrid Magnum. When the A/C cycles off, then battery charging will occur until the next A/C cycle.

With 800 or 1200 Lithium, I would expect to have A/C for many days before driving for two hours or more to fully charge up the Lithium bank.

Note that this is only needed for visiting or living in southern states. While Davydd is experiencing below freezing weather, I had on shorts and a tee yesterday in Austin.

[Davydd]

I saw their 1200ah lithium ion battery solution. It is all one big assembly that would have to weigh with protection steel somewhere around 600 lbs. It all fits where most put an Onan generator and that is probably their practical limit. There is no mystery in what ARV does. I've seen my battery pack and they had an identical one on display at Advanced Fest for all to see. Hopefully I will never see it again as the only way to see it is to put the van on a lift and drop the box with a jack.

Barry, I don't know anything about the Magnum. I just have to take your word. The Outback is super quiet and you are not aware it is on. My experience with inverters were the smaller ones for TVs in my previous two Bs and they were atrociously loud.

[gregmchugh]

I would say Magnum is a good choice, pretty much the standard inverter/charger used in the better Class A units. Quality is great and the company is great, never heard a bad word about them. The hybrid unit is a good choice for what you are planning to do.