GWV/Sterling RV shuttered... - Page 6

Bruceper · 01-08-2016, 10:37 PM

QB Court Registry

Click on Name Search, and then just enter DEBRAGA in the last name box. You see some random people, but Carrie-anne and David show up often, as does Stirling Industrial Coatings. Some of the judgements against them are a few thousand, there's one for 95k which is pretty recent.

Rok · 01-09-2016, 12:46 AM

Wow, Bruceper, that's interesting stuff. Looks like Dave & company are pretty well acquainted with the court system. If I understand what I'm reading correctly, all of the judgments I see are against Dave & Carrie-Anne &/or Sterling.

Since initially posting on this thread, I've talked with a LOT of people about the situation. Most will let on a little bit and then they clam up. There is a definite pattern of behavior that is not commendable.

For now, that is all I want to say/write. I want to collect my thoughts before I write more.

Thanks for the link, Bruceper.

...........Rok

avanti · 01-09-2016, 01:33 AM

FWIW, the Sterling Winfield facility was pretty large--there was certainly room for a lot more than three vans in production at once. There were more than that there during my visit, plus a lot of unused space. All the evidence suggests that they were gearing up to become a much larger operation than they had been. I am not commenting on how realistic these aspirations were. But I don't find the idea that this was some elaborate scam very credible.

wincrasher · 01-09-2016, 02:07 AM

Well, you'd think there was a business plan presented in order to secure the loans or guarantees. How good that plan was I guess is the subject of speculation. I'd love to see a copy of it and how rigorous it was and how it was vetted.

Personally, I think they went down south with rosey expectations of cheap and compliant labor and low overhead costs. They may have even thought they'd be able to push around the local country bumpkins and get their way on alot of things - or at least time to make their business work out. Apparently they discovered otherwise and the locals pulled the plug. Considering the amount of the losses, the locals must not have had much confidence in the ability of Sterling to pull it out.

The sad thing is it looks like nobody wins. There won't be any recovery for any of the parties.

Davydd · 01-09-2016, 03:27 AM

I don't think scam is an appropriate description. It was more like a delusional business plan that too many people bought into including Debraga himself.

avanti · 01-09-2016, 03:29 AM

I don't think it is quite right to talk about the "locals" as a homogenous group. As I see it, there were at least two distinct constituencies: (1) the local and state governments and economic development agencies and (2) the bank. This is a very depressed area of a very depressed state. Group #1 were desperate for jobs, and I think they were as seduced by the prospects of Sterling coming to town as Sterling was by the prospects of cheap and compliant labor. Both sides were looking through extremely rose-colored glasses. The bank were the adults in the room, and it appears that it was they who pulled the plug. I think there was plenty of naiveté to go around.

Under these circumstances, I am not sure how much of a business plan was involved. The government didn't require one because they were way too excited. The bank didn't need one because they had a guarantee from the gov't instead. When that was about to go away, the cards collapsed.

Davydd · 01-09-2016, 03:33 AM

Yep. They marched in with 76 trombones.

wincrasher · 01-09-2016, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avanti

I don't think it is quite right to talk about the "locals" as a homogenous group. As I see it, there were at least two distinct constituencies: (1) the local and state governments and economic development agencies and (2) the bank. This is a very depressed area of a very depressed state. Group #1 were desperate for jobs, and I think they were as seduced by the prospects of Sterling coming to town as Sterling was by the prospects of cheap and compliant labor. Both sides were looking through extremely rose-colored glasses. The bank were the adults in the room, and it appears that it was they who pulled the plug. I think there was plenty of naiveté to go around.

Under these circumstances, I am not sure how much of a business plan was involved. The government didn't require one because they were way too excited. The bank didn't need one because they had a guarantee from the gov't instead. When that was about to go away, the cards collapsed.

Yes, I wouldn't disagree with anything you just said.

Straylight · 01-11-2016, 12:45 AM

Why does this sort of thing seem to happen so often? Class B companies (and maybe RV companies in general) just come and go and come and go again, it feels like a lot of them only last a couple of years and then just disappear---what gives? What makes this industry so vicious?

obgraham · 01-11-2016, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Straylight

What makes this industry so vicious?

In my opinion, with no facts to back it up:

1.Technical difficulty in designing such a complex rig on such a small chassis. Expertise for this is hard to come by. Results in:
2.High price for the rigs, resulting in fussy buyers. Results in:
3.Small market for B's.

Davydd · 01-11-2016, 01:56 AM

I don't think they come and go as much as you seem to think. In fact most brands weathered the 2008 recession in the Class B sphere. Most had dropped out long before that. In the case of Great West Vans it had been a revered brand around since the popular inception of the idea of a Class B camper van going back to the 1970s. The originator of the brand and long time owner and builder of the brand simply got old, retired and sold in 2012. The brand was sold to Sterling. It last just a couple of years after that. Such is life in economics and commitment. Nothing is forever.

wincrasher · 01-11-2016, 02:49 AM

Boutique shops of any kind can easily go out of business. I think it's the simple fact that the overhead has to be spread over so few units. Like it or not, many buyers shop on price, not necessarily quality perception or features. If you are not competitive on price, then you are cast aside by most buyers. All the major manufacturers - Winnebago, Pleasureway, Roadtrek & Airstream have been in business many years. Their prices and resale value reflect this stability.

Jostalli · 01-11-2016, 03:24 AM

I certainly would not want to compete against Winnebago. They may not have the perfect class B for everyone but there is no better value for the money.

dan50 · 03-16-2016, 07:32 PM

Just for kicks:

https://rv-pro.com/news/great-west-v...get-back-track

SiennaGuy · 03-19-2016, 08:41 AM

Just for grins, I went to the Great West Vans website to see if they'd posted anything. My browser said that the page was not available. Then, being the true nerd that I am, I went to the free Internet Archive (The "Wayback Machine") to see past captures of the site. This organization takes captures of websites and archives them. They've archived 469 billion web pages so far. Sometimes, they don't capture all of the images or links on a site, but you still can get a pretty good idea of what was there.

It's especially good to show kids that once something is on the Internet, it's there for good. Even if it's not archived at this site, lots of people have saved pages and photos on their computers. Anyway, here's the link:
https://archive.org/web/

To use it, you enter the regular web address for the site that you're interested in, then click "Browse History." It will show you a timeline and a calendar that indicates the dates that they archived that site. They don't collect information about when a site was updated. They just show you what they found on a particular date. Click on a year in the timeline, then click on a date and it will show you what was there.

The last time that the Great West site was archived was March 18, 2016 and it found a page that said that their account was suspended. There's no indication when it was suspended or why.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160318...pendedpage.cgi

On February 5, 2016 they captured a functioning Great West site that seemed updated since the last time I saw it some time ago.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160205...twestvans.com/

If you have time, check out other dates that the site was captured. They captured it 323 times between December 2, 1998 and March 18, 2016. It's interesting to see their history. The December 2, 1988 Great West Vans page is here:
https://web.archive.org/web/19981202...twestvans.com/

Davydd · 03-19-2016, 03:21 PM

"It's dead, Jim."

Rok · 03-19-2016, 06:29 PM

Wow, I just was composing a very long post to this thread, but somehow I pressed the wrong button and it disappeared.

I don't have time to do it all again.

That really stinks.

Maybe I'll find time to do it another day.

............Rocky

wincrasher · 03-20-2016, 02:05 AM

I still don't get why they haven't filed bankruptcy. It would clean up alot of issues for them.

avanti · 05-03-2016, 12:59 PM

Well, this looks fairly definitive:

auction schedule

Davydd · 05-03-2016, 03:01 PM

Any warranty issues or has everyone lucked out on that score? By the time I sold my Great West Van Legend I was pretty much out of warranty and had to replace my rarely used air conditioner on my nickel. It was probably dead while still in warranty. I sold it in October 2014 and see it is still for sale at Lake Region RVs. That is an awful long time to sit. Granted I put a lot of miles on it in a short period of time but they were mostly easy highway miles (over 45 mph total average), had new Michelin LTX MS/2 tires and it was clean and in excellent condition. I wonder what the effects of a bankrupt company and orphaned brand has contributed to seemingly resistant resale.

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