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Old 05-11-2022, 04:28 PM   #1
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Default Those CR Lawrence windows

I've got a 2004 Roadtrek with the CR Lawrence windows that open in the back. I've read enough on here to see that they come loose and fall off.

I'm trying to prevent that...

I do notice that when opening them they stick to the rubber sealing stuff and it takes quite a lot of torque on the turn handle to get them unstuck and open.

I've lathered the rubber with 303, but that doesn't seem to help.

Anyone have an idea of what to use to keep the windows from sticking? I'm thinking that will help in the longevity of the windows not falling off.

???
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Old 05-11-2022, 05:13 PM   #2
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I have always used silicone spray on my rubber stuff to preserve it. Might try that as it is a bit more "slick" so to speak.

That being said there appears to be disagreement about whether or not silicone spray is good for preserving rubber parts. All I can say is that I have been using it for about 40 years with good results.

Might be worth a try

YMMV
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Old 05-11-2022, 06:27 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by pasusan View Post
I've got a 2004 Roadtrek with the CR Lawrence windows that open in the back. I've read enough on here to see that they come loose and fall off.

I'm trying to prevent that...

I do notice that when opening them they stick to the rubber sealing stuff and it takes quite a lot of torque on the turn handle to get them unstuck and open.

I've lathered the rubber with 303, but that doesn't seem to help.

Anyone have an idea of what to use to keep the windows from sticking? I'm thinking that will help in the longevity of the windows not falling off.

???
I don't agree with your "help" solution or it's tiny.

The window is held on tightly at the top, period. Down below the top of the window, a mechanism holds the window against the van. That mechanism will not prevent the window from falling when the '3M stuff, epoxy, glue' whatever gives up. Look at that mechanism and you'll find that you can close off the bottom of the slide tube. Then always noticing when opening the window, you'll notice if the top gave up.

You can also use gorilla tape on the top of the window, it won't hardly show. Some have used wide 3M and then just taped over the sticky side left.

I suggest Not driving with those 2 windows open.

Sorry, I don't know any of the appropriate terminology above.
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Old 05-11-2022, 06:37 PM   #4
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I don't agree with your "help" solution or it's tiny.

The window is held on tightly at the top, period. Down below the top of the window, a mechanism holds the window against the van. That mechanism will not prevent the window from falling when the '3M stuff, epoxy, glue' whatever gives up. Look at that mechanism and you'll find that you can close off the bottom of the slide tube. Then always noticing when opening the window, you'll notice if the top gave up.

You can also use gorilla tape on the top of the window, it won't hardly show. Some have used wide 3M and then just taped over the sticky side left.

I suggest Not driving with those 2 windows open.

Sorry, I don't know any of the appropriate terminology above.
Forgot to mention that the 'slide tubes' are 3M'ed to the window! One may give up prior to the top, and you may notice it, probably will.
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Old 05-12-2022, 10:41 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Kurt Franz View Post
I have always used silicone spray on my rubber stuff to preserve it. Might try that as it is a bit more "slick" so to speak.

That being said there appears to be disagreement about whether or not silicone spray is good for preserving rubber parts. All I can say is that I have been using it for about 40 years with good results.

Might be worth a try

YMMV
Thanks, Kurt - I will try silicone and see if it stops being sticky.
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Old 05-12-2022, 10:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud View Post
I don't agree with your "help" solution or it's tiny.

The window is held on tightly at the top, period. Down below the top of the window, a mechanism holds the window against the van. That mechanism will not prevent the window from falling when the '3M stuff, epoxy, glue' whatever gives up. Look at that mechanism and you'll find that you can close off the bottom of the slide tube. Then always noticing when opening the window, you'll notice if the top gave up.

You can also use gorilla tape on the top of the window, it won't hardly show. Some have used wide 3M and then just taped over the sticky side left.

I suggest Not driving with those 2 windows open.

Sorry, I don't know any of the appropriate terminology above.
So - it looks like the glass sticking to the rubber won't be a problem helping the glass to come loose and fall off. Our B is stored inside and always has been so maybe that will help the epoxy stuff last longer. Thanks for the info.
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Old 05-13-2022, 11:43 AM   #7
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So - it looks like the glass sticking to the rubber won't be a problem helping the glass to come loose and fall off. Our B is stored inside and always has been so maybe that will help the epoxy stuff last longer. Thanks for the info.
My guess is that no direct sun will make a difference. I'd place a bet and give 4:1 odds.
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Old 05-13-2022, 12:31 PM   #8
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We have a 2007 Roadtrek 190P with the same windows and there are a couple of oddities with them in general.


As others have described, the guides on the glass can fall off and the glass can come loose from the hinge. We hear about that fairly often. On at least the Chevy Roadtreks, the driver side window almost never fits right into the rubber seal because the body of the van curves away in the lower rear corner of the window frame too much for the glass to bend. Laurence also makes the actuator arms uneven, apparently intentionally, so the non crank end hits the seal first by nearly 1/4". So the bending of the frame and the offset add together and the lower rear corner of the window does not seat all the way in the rubber and people destroy the now unavailable crank gears trying to get it tight. On the passenger side the offset of the arms is similar but the body appears not to bend as much so with a hard crank it will close pretty snug.


If you look at the rubber "seat" that the window closes in to you can see that it has a small lip around the outside edge of the rubber that the window is supposed to seat in to. If the window is not closed all the way in there is no engagement in to the lip so probably the entire rear half of the window is not supported against the bouncing going down the road and that is likely contributing to the glass coming loose from the hinge.


The setup, IMO, is kind of cluster of questionable design (the offset of the arms), poor application (the bad fit to the body), and misunderstanding of how it should work by the people who designed and applied the windows in our vans.


Last winter, I finally went in and "fixed" as many of the problem areas as I could. There is a thread on the forum with pix that might help see what is going on. It entails spacing out and resealing the windows, eliminating the offset of the arms and carefully aligning things so the glass goes into the rubber gasket completely. Our windows now easily go fully into the seal and are supported by the rubber flange when closed. My only concern at this point is if they will try to self loosen because nearly all the "springyness" of the system is gone and the crank turns very easily to the closed position and may not want to stay there when bouncing down the road. If they do come a loose, I will add a brake to the crank handle to make it less loose.


I am still contemplating what would be the best thing to add to the hinge and arm guides to reinforce them, but am thinking about epoxy or urethane adhesive along the edges at this point.


As to the window sticking to the seal, it may be just sticking, but I also found that the partial engagement into the seal lip was not easy on ours because the of the frame distortion issue. The window would interfere going into the lip and be somewhat jammed there. Once aligned properly the window opened without the stick/jump that it had always had.
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Old 05-13-2022, 01:02 PM   #9
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Wow Bud - thanks so much for the detailed information about our windows and how they work...

I checked everything out and it seems like everything is working and lined up like it should be. And putting silicone on the rubber seal makes them open easier. Now I added silicone to the outer lip area to help that out.

Strangely - my windows seem to be pretty well aligned and fit nicely within those outer lips. Whew.

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Old 05-13-2022, 01:28 PM   #10
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Wow Bud - thanks so much for the detailed information about our windows and how they work...

I checked everything out and it seems like everything is working and lined up like it should be. And putting silicone on the rubber seal makes them open easier. Now I added silicone to the outer lip area to help that out.

Strangely - my windows seem to be pretty well aligned and fit nicely within those outer lips. Whew.


Not Bud, but are you saying the driver side rear window is tight to the seal on the lower rear corner? If so, I would be very surprised at that. The best check is to lightly close the window without cranking it very tight then go out and push on the lower rear corner of moveable glass. It should not move much more than about 1/32" max and should be inside of the lip on the seal. Ours when pushed hit on the top of the lip and never engaged it even when I pushed it in by hand. Lightly closed out window was nearly 1/4" open in that area.


Here is a link to the thread I mentioned earlier. Be sure to scroll down a ways for the pix because the first time I put them in they got lost somehow. As you can see, the driver side frame is moved out something like 3/8" to not bind and bend the window frame. This is due to the body shape so all Chevies should be the same, I think.


https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...fix-12883.html
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Old 05-13-2022, 03:05 PM   #11
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Not Bud, but are you saying the driver side rear window is tight to the seal on the lower rear corner? If so, I would be very surprised at that. The best check is to lightly close the window without cranking it very tight then go out and push on the lower rear corner of moveable glass. It should not move much more than about 1/32" max and should be inside of the lip on the seal. Ours when pushed hit on the top of the lip and never engaged it even when I pushed it in by hand. Lightly closed out window was nearly 1/4" open in that area.


Here is a link to the thread I mentioned earlier. Be sure to scroll down a ways for the pix because the first time I put them in they got lost somehow. As you can see, the driver side frame is moved out something like 3/8" to not bind and bend the window frame. This is due to the body shape so all Chevies should be the same, I think.


https://www.classbforum.com/forums/f...fix-12883.html
Geez, am I sorry - Booster!!! But hopefully you felt the thanks. I'll get some pictures of my rear driver's side window -

From the back fully closed:


From the front fully closed:


From the back barely open:


From the front barely open:


Looks pretty good to me. Maybe I just got lucky...

But I have to say that siliconing the rubber and then the inner lip area - they open and close without a hitch!
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Old 05-13-2022, 04:43 PM   #12
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No problem here, posters get mixed up between each other regularly.


There is something odd in looking at your pix. Or perhaps they did stuff differently in 2004.


If I look at you pic for partly open, I can see the glass and frame right under it, and then there is a gap to body of the van. If you go up the frame a bit it is sitting on what looks very similar to the urethane rope caulk I used. It also looks like there is a bead of silicone around the body to window joint, but that may be a reflection. If that is the case, someone went in and did similar to what I did, but used the same size caulk all the way around and left the window snug only against it. It may have leaked so the silicone if it is there. The material against the body and under the rubber window frame seal was not there from the factory on our 07.
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Old 05-13-2022, 11:55 PM   #13
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I have my own theory on why the windows failed and were recalled. My van was a 2000 so this might not apply to other years. On my van, one window fell out, and CR Laurence made me a replacement kit in 2005 even though the recall was pretty much completed at the time. What I found as I examined the window and the one that hadn't failed was that the hinge, which was just an aluminum channel that fit into another was gummed up with some sort of non-hardening putty or something. As a result, cranking the window open and shut was difficult and put stress on the glue that held the aluminum channels to the glass. Eventually the glue failed. In theory, there should be almost zero effort with the crank to open and shut the windows. I took apart the window on the other side (you have to remove a rivet if I recall) and thoroughly cleaned out the aluminum channel with a solvent (don't remember which) and an old toothbrush. Once done, the window crank turned without any effort and there was no friction in the hinge. I did the same thing with the replacement vent window they sent me. To be frank, I did a lot of posting on the listservs that we used at the time to communicate with other owners, and I'm not sure anybody else bought my theory. Maybe nobody cared why it happened as long as they got it fixed, but I thought it was important to know in order to prevent the problem on windows that hadn't failed.
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Old 05-14-2022, 12:16 AM   #14
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I have my own theory on why the windows failed and were recalled. My van was a 2000 so this might not apply to other years. On my van, one window fell out, and CR Laurence made me a replacement kit in 2005 even though the recall was pretty much completed at the time. What I found as I examined the window and the one that hadn't failed was that the hinge, which was just an aluminum channel that fit into another was gummed up with some sort of non-hardening putty or something. As a result, cranking the window open and shut was difficult and put stress on the glue that held the aluminum channels to the glass. Eventually the glue failed. In theory, there should be almost zero effort with the crank to open and shut the windows. I took apart the window on the other side (you have to remove a rivet if I recall) and thoroughly cleaned out the aluminum channel with a solvent (don't remember which) and an old toothbrush. Once done, the window crank turned without any effort and there was no friction in the hinge. I did the same thing with the replacement vent window they sent me. To be frank, I did a lot of posting on the listservs that we used at the time to communicate with other owners, and I'm not sure anybody else bought my theory. Maybe nobody cared why it happened as long as they got it fixed, but I thought it was important to know in order to prevent the problem on windows that hadn't failed.

Our 07 had some similar sounding brownish colored stuff at the ends of the hinge. I thought it looked like it was to keep the moveable "pin" that holds the glass in the center or the hinge so the window would hit the recess in the seal at the bottom, as it will miss if the window moves over a bit.


There is always some force needed to open our windows as you are working against a pretty stout spring when opening. The spring helps hold the window closed tightly when shut.
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Old 05-14-2022, 10:21 AM   #15
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No problem here, posters get mixed up between each other regularly.


There is something odd in looking at your pix. Or perhaps they did stuff differently in 2004.


If I look at you pic for partly open, I can see the glass and frame right under it, and then there is a gap to body of the van. If you go up the frame a bit it is sitting on what looks very similar to the urethane rope caulk I used. It also looks like there is a bead of silicone around the body to window joint, but that may be a reflection. If that is the case, someone went in and did similar to what I did, but used the same size caulk all the way around and left the window snug only against it. It may have leaked so the silicone if it is there. The material against the body and under the rubber window frame seal was not there from the factory on our 07.
There is no silicone and I'm 99 percent sure there has been no modification, so I'm thinking that maybe they did mine right at the factory. One would certainly hope that all Roadtrek windows weren't installed shoddily.

I do see people complaining about less than perfect build quality on some Roadtreks. It's a shame...
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Old 05-14-2022, 10:55 AM   #16
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There is no silicone and I'm 99 percent sure there has been no modification, so I'm thinking that maybe they did mine right at the factory. One would certainly hope that all Roadtrek windows weren't installed shoddily.

I do see people complaining about less than perfect build quality on some Roadtreks. It's a shame...

It may be that the earlier versions were done differently and better. It would be very interesting if any other folks on here who have pre 2007 Roadtrek Chevies could post pix similar to yours and the ones I put on the other thread.


The Hammil era started a bit before our van was built, and it was obvious to us the quality took a downturn about then so this could have been a "cost improvement" they did. It may also have come in with the new roof and other changes in the 2007 time period. Our van was one of the first of that style.
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Old 05-14-2022, 10:57 AM   #17
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There is no silicone and I'm 99 percent sure there has been no modification, so I'm thinking that maybe they did mine right at the factory. One would certainly hope that all Roadtrek windows weren't installed shoddily.

I do see people complaining about less than perfect build quality on some Roadtreks. It's a shame...

It may be that the earlier versions were done differently and better. It would be very interesting if any other folks on here who have pre 2007 Roadtrek Chevies could post pix similar to yours and the ones I put on the other thread.


The Hammil era started a bit before our van was built, and it was obvious to us the quality took a downturn about then so this could have been a "cost improvement" they did. It may also have come in with the new roof and other changes in the 2007 time period. Our van was one of the first of that style.


It is a bummer that I didn't look at the windows in a 2004 190P when it was at our home a week ago, but I didn't even think of it.
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Old 05-14-2022, 07:12 PM   #18
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Does the window falling out problem affect all years or did Roadtrek correct the problem in a certain year?

Thank you,

Langton
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