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Old 02-03-2020, 10:53 AM   #1
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Default Discussion with PleasureWay

Last weekend I went to the Atlanta Camping and RV Show. I almost didn't go, as the model I am most interested in, the PW OnTour 2.2, wasn't listed as being at the show. To my delight, there was indeed an OnTour 2.2 at the show. This one was white with the Mocha cabinets and the neutral counters. It is a '20 model on the '19 Transit chassis. There was also supposed to be an OnTour 2.0, but it was delivered the day before the show. Also present from PW was a Lexor TS with the radius cabinets, and a Tofino.

It was great to be able to do direct comparisons and peruse most aspects of each coach, as I am also interested in one the Lexors. I was also able to compare competitors, including the Coachmen Beyond 22C, Winnebago Travato 59K and G, Boldt 70KL, and Revel, Thor Sequence L, Regency National Traveler, plus a few B+ models such as two of the LTV Wonders, and Regency Brougham Ultras.

While going over the Pleasure-Ways, I started a long conversation with their factory rep. We covered many topics. First, they were finishing the last of the '20 OnTour models built on the '19 chassis. They will then build some '20 models on the 2020 Transit chassis, and expect numerous upgrades. Also expect a price increase in the OnTours built on the '20 chassis, as the chasses will cost more; all of that safety tech is not free. The '21s will have further detail changes, as equipment becomes available. He did say the OnTours will be evolving quickly. The current models aren't actually "prototypes", but the design is certainly not mature or as fully tweaked as the Lexor, for instance. Expect detail changes in the bathroom, like bigger mirrors, shelves in the medicine cabinets, and perhaps changes in the galley.

He said the '20 chassis will have some things from Ford that will easily allow other changes. First, Ford will offer swiveling cab seats on both sides from the factory, so the OnTours will have them. Currently, NO OnTour has any swivel; if a Transit has a swivel, it is after-market, and requires further crash testing, unlike swivels from the manufacturer, who already did the testing. Similarly, they are hoping that Ford will include factory locations for rear seat outboard shoulder belt anchors, so that 3-point safety belts can be included, as on the Lexors. They have to be tested, too.

The biggest change may be the AWD option. They are awaiting their first one, to make sure they can engineer the OnTour with only minimal changes. They aren't anticipating any problems, though. He said the ride height will be unchanged, but the added weight will reduce total cargo and towing capacity by the difference in chassis weights, which is to be expected.

He also said to expect changes throughout the '21 lineup in things like finish colors and other options. He said they usually change the finishes every two years, so a change is due. He also said the radius interior option may be coming to the OnTour; initially, they just wanted to get them to market, but that the Radius cabinetry was the most popular cabinet finish in the Lexor even at three grand, so it may well show up in the OnTours for '21. I loved it in the Lexor TS they were showing, and it seemed to add elbow room to the bath, as well as a bit more room in the overhead cabinets. I asked about quieter, more efficient 12 volt AC options. He replied that they would like to use them, but that Coleman was not yet letting them have access to the internal codes necessary to allow PW's version of VoltStart to function correctly; he expects they will eventually come around if they want to increase their sales. They do have the code for their Dometic units.

I asked about the OnTour windows, which have been criticized for allowing rain to enter while open when the coach is stopped. He said to expect a running change to awning style windows soon.

I inquired about bigger battery options. He said that current Onan generators use motors from Suzuki, which are noisy. He said there will soon be a switch to Yamaha built motors, which are supposed to be as quiet as the Honda generator, and will be so quiet and efficient that it will make bigger battery packs unnecessary, and that the generators will be able to be run anywhere, anytime! Wouldn't that be great! We shall see. He also said the current UHG technology was "junk"; don't expect to see a PW so-equipped.

I did ask about a model many of us would like to see, a Sprinter based Plateau model like a TS with a front lounge on the extended chassis. He said not to expect one, as both Plateaus are engineered to have the ottomans over the rear wheelhouses; all of the extra length in the 24 footer is BEHIND the rear wheels., and would require a thorough redesign. Never thought about that; it looked so easy on paper!

I did ask about the other chasses. He said the Sprinter chassis had no suspension changes/upgrades from the previous versions. He also said they had no knowledge of any updates pending for the Promaster, which is unfortunate, IMO. It's getting kind of long in the tooth, though it is pretty reliable. Certainly a more modern transmission and engine, with additional safety equipment, more comfortable front seats, and more leg room isn't too much to ask for after all this time.

I didn't get to ask if some of the features from the OnTour would spread to the rest of the line, like the compressor fridge and the induction burner, but I bet that will happen as fridge models become available that would require minimal engineering changes.

Overall, it was a fruitful conversation, and I can hope for an OnTour 2.2 AWD with the Radius interior, quiet AC, and quiet generator in my future.
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Old 02-03-2020, 12:19 PM   #2
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Nice write-up! It sounds like you talked to them much longer than I was able to in Tampa. The only thing I can add is that they told me they were going to standardize on the AWD Ecoboost chassis for the OnTour. The first ones should be available by June or so, depending on when they can get the vehicles from Ford.

My take was that the swivel driver's seat on the '20 chassis won't buy them much with the existing design, since the bathroom wall is butted up right behind it. I would look forward to a replication of the Flexor FL layout.
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Old 02-03-2020, 05:52 PM   #3
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mtmdatlanta.

Thanks for the update details on the On Tour. I like the planned conversion to awning-style windows.

Be prepared for vigorous debate regarding the PW comments about revised generators so quiet they can run anytime and a UHG being called junk. My only comment is IF (yes, it's a big if) any Onan generator or UHG can be executed better than they have in the past, either improvement will be welcomed.

Some will always want a generator, while others see the future as big lithium battery packs re-charged by a UHG. I say, to each his own.
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:09 PM   #4
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Hi: This came from the Cummins sales rep today.

While the dB output of the HGJBB ranges from about 72 76 (going from no load to full load), the HGLAA is 64 69 according to some testing I have seen. Will defer to the numbers that are published on the spec sheet, but it is a substantial difference.

Not available yet. If it is really good. I will exchange my HGJBB for the a new quiet model.
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Old 02-03-2020, 11:27 PM   #5
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Being a skeptic on things that factory RV reps say...., I always say that we won't know until we see it. We have gotten tons of "tell them what they want to hear and will sell RVs" claims over the years at the local RV show, from all the manufacturers. Hopefully, the stuff will show up in literature to confirm sooner rather than later.



Honda and Yamaha generators are pretty quiet, but still can't get by of no generator rules as you certainly can tell they are running from adjacent sites. Onan would also have to switch to an inverter style to get as quiet at lower outputs. Time will tell, as they also said the current version is much quieter, but the ones we have heard would be marginally quieter, IMO. I hope they can do it, but I do wonder how it will turn out.
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Old 02-04-2020, 08:30 AM   #6
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On the OnTour 2.2, there is actually a fair amount of space behind the driver's seat, unlike the
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Old 02-04-2020, 08:39 AM   #7
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Lexor TS and the Plateau TS. Not enough to be a full lounge, but with the seat swiveled at an angle, should be usable. I asked if a front lounge model would be coming, and he said don't count on it. The bath would have to be re-engineered to allow more space. The bath from the OnTour 2.0 would allow a lounge, but has no sink or storage and faces the opposite direction, so it might not work out on the 2.2. Though yo never know.

As far as the quiet generator, if it can achieve sound levels in the mid-60 db range, that is the sound level of the interior of a luxury car at 60 mph, which is pretty quiet. Again, we shall see.
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Old 02-04-2020, 03:43 PM   #8
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A little interesting things about Onan switching from Subaru engines to Onan.


Subaru engines were sold here under the Subaru Robin brand on contract, which also used names in the past like Wisconsin Robin, to take advantage of two old school engine brands. The engines in the Onans may still be the old designs from Wisconsin or Robin engines that were very good in their long past prime, design-wise.



It looks like Onan has no choice but to change to somebody else, which I kind of suspected because over 5 years ago an Onan R&D engineer I ran across while selling some metalworking tools, said that had zero interest in updating the smaller generators more the little stuff and maybe some emission rule compliance.


Here is a statement that is on the Robin Subaru site.


Quote:
Effective October 2nd, 2017, Subaru Corporation has withdrawn from the small engine power product business and has ceased the production and sale of multi-purpose engines, generators and pumps. There is no inventory remaining for any engines , pumps or generators

Onan must have stocked up before the end, as they surely would have enough warning and influence capacity to keep Subaru supplying for them a while.


My guess would mean they won't be going to inverter style with the change, just engine, so it would still be running at 3600rpm all the time, but that is far from certain. Some of the Onan portables are shown as inverter style, but they may have been made by Subaru for them as complete generators, so would go away also, leaving no small inverter styles in their line.
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Old 02-05-2020, 05:13 PM   #9
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Too bad Onan didn't respond to complaints about noise and vibration sooner, and instead continued to sell old school generators that played into the hands of lithium battery system providers. The switch to large battery banks was probably inevitable as technology advances and prices come down (although not fast enough). But much of the race to switch was directly aided by the negative features of the Onan generators.

Maybe a smart business decision by Onan to not invest in new technology for a relatively small and dying market. But during a time of innovation and broadening choices in the class b market, still disappointing.
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Old 02-09-2020, 05:48 PM   #10
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Default Good write up and agree that AC's and Gen's need to be quieter

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Originally Posted by mtmdatlanta View Post
Last weekend I went to the Atlanta Camping and RV Show. I almost didn't go, as the model I am most interested in, the PW OnTour 2.2, wasn't listed as being at the show. To my delight, there was indeed an OnTour 2.2 at the show. This one was white with the Mocha cabinets and the neutral counters. It is a '20 model on the '19 Transit chassis. There was also supposed to be an OnTour 2.0, but it was delivered the day before the show. Also present from PW was a Lexor TS with the radius cabinets, and a Tofino.

It was great to be able to do direct comparisons and peruse most aspects of each coach, as I am also interested in one the Lexors. I was also able to compare competitors, including the Coachmen Beyond 22C, Winnebago Travato 59K and G, Boldt 70KL, and Revel, Thor Sequence L, Regency National Traveler, plus a few B+ models such as two of the LTV Wonders, and Regency Brougham Ultras.

While going over the Pleasure-Ways, I started a long conversation with their factory rep. We covered many topics. First, they were finishing the last of the '20 OnTour models built on the '19 chassis. They will then build some '20 models on the 2020 Transit chassis, and expect numerous upgrades. Also expect a price increase in the OnTours built on the '20 chassis, as the chasses will cost more; all of that safety tech is not free. The '21s will have further detail changes, as equipment becomes available. He did say the OnTours will be evolving quickly. The current models aren't actually "prototypes", but the design is certainly not mature or as fully tweaked as the Lexor, for instance. Expect detail changes in the bathroom, like bigger mirrors, shelves in the medicine cabinets, and perhaps changes in the galley.

He said the '20 chassis will have some things from Ford that will easily allow other changes. First, Ford will offer swiveling cab seats on both sides from the factory, so the OnTours will have them. Currently, NO OnTour has any swivel; if a Transit has a swivel, it is after-market, and requires further crash testing, unlike swivels from the manufacturer, who already did the testing. Similarly, they are hoping that Ford will include factory locations for rear seat outboard shoulder belt anchors, so that 3-point safety belts can be included, as on the Lexors. They have to be tested, too.

The biggest change may be the AWD option. They are awaiting their first one, to make sure they can engineer the OnTour with only minimal changes. They aren't anticipating any problems, though. He said the ride height will be unchanged, but the added weight will reduce total cargo and towing capacity by the difference in chassis weights, which is to be expected.

He also said to expect changes throughout the '21 lineup in things like finish colors and other options. He said they usually change the finishes every two years, so a change is due. He also said the radius interior option may be coming to the OnTour; initially, they just wanted to get them to market, but that the Radius cabinetry was the most popular cabinet finish in the Lexor even at three grand, so it may well show up in the OnTours for '21. I loved it in the Lexor TS they were showing, and it seemed to add elbow room to the bath, as well as a bit more room in the overhead cabinets. I asked about quieter, more efficient 12 volt AC options. He replied that they would like to use them, but that Coleman was not yet letting them have access to the internal codes necessary to allow PW's version of VoltStart to function correctly; he expects they will eventually come around if they want to increase their sales. They do have the code for their Dometic units.

I asked about the OnTour windows, which have been criticized for allowing rain to enter while open when the coach is stopped. He said to expect a running change to awning style windows soon.

I inquired about bigger battery options. He said that current Onan generators use motors from Suzuki, which are noisy. He said there will soon be a switch to Yamaha built motors, which are supposed to be as quiet as the Honda generator, and will be so quiet and efficient that it will make bigger battery packs unnecessary, and that the generators will be able to be run anywhere, anytime! Wouldn't that be great! We shall see. He also said the current UHG technology was "junk"; don't expect to see a PW so-equipped.

I did ask about a model many of us would like to see, a Sprinter based Plateau model like a TS with a front lounge on the extended chassis. He said not to expect one, as both Plateaus are engineered to have the ottomans over the rear wheelhouses; all of the extra length in the 24 footer is BEHIND the rear wheels., and would require a thorough redesign. Never thought about that; it looked so easy on paper!

I did ask about the other chasses. He said the Sprinter chassis had no suspension changes/upgrades from the previous versions. He also said they had no knowledge of any updates pending for the Promaster, which is unfortunate, IMO. It's getting kind of long in the tooth, though it is pretty reliable. Certainly a more modern transmission and engine, with additional safety equipment, more comfortable front seats, and more leg room isn't too much to ask for after all this time.

I didn't get to ask if some of the features from the OnTour would spread to the rest of the line, like the compressor fridge and the induction burner, but I bet that will happen as fridge models become available that would require minimal engineering changes.

Overall, it was a fruitful conversation, and I can hope for an OnTour 2.2 AWD with the Radius interior, quiet AC, and quiet generator in my future.
Great write up and time for coleman to step up with quieter AC's and Class B's use Honda generators. I have a new 2020 Travator and both are loud. I am adding the Sumo suspension to the Ram.
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Old 02-09-2020, 06:51 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachlife View Post
Great write up and time for coleman to step up with quieter AC's and Class B's use Honda generators. I have a new 2020 Travator and both are loud. I am adding the Sumo suspension to the Ram.
Winnebago has switched to the Coleman Mach 10 NDQ (Non Ducted Quiet) A/C in the Travato. We had our older Travato A/C switched out at the Coleman factory last summer and it is noticeably quieter, especially on Low Cool which is where we run it most of the time. Can easily carry on a conversation as compared to the previous Mach 8.

Regarding the generator, quieter would be a start but what about vibration? Wonder if the new engine has less vibration?

BTW, the Travato now comes standard with Sumo springs.
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Old 02-09-2020, 07:33 PM   #12
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Yes, the so-called 2020.5 Travatos have the new Coleman Mach 10 NDQ. Much quieter! (We changed our 2019 out to the new one) Also as mentioned standard Sumo springs at all 4 corners along with much better insulation installs (could still be better)

A few people in the know over on the 2 Travato Facebook groups have been in the field testing a new quieter Onan generator. Sworn to secrecy though so no details.
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Old 02-10-2020, 01:29 AM   #13
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Default Pleasureway interview with Dean...

Here’s an interesting interview about Pleasureway’s models & design efforts... somewhat dated, but good in site into a mfg’s thinking about B vans, etc...




The comments above re awning style windows is good news if indeed true... it’s been a long time coming..!!! These windows would sure ‘open’ up cross ventilation for those times when AC isn’t really needed or to ‘air out’ the interior... I would think the cost factor would almost be a ‘push’ if chassis was supplied from Ford w/o windows, therefore having a lower base price..?
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