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Old 05-08-2020, 12:02 AM   #41
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The Tri-fold electric sofa/bed developed by Martin Geurts founder of Great West Vans was the best and better than the bi-fold with padded ottoman wheel wells and infills sofa/beds. They used side rails so the under bed storage was not compromised and of course you had a full 69-70" wide bed in the Sprinter. ARV uses it as well. You could semi adjust it for a sloping back sofa and the wheel wells could act as ottomans at the correct height. I've had both types.

I've done the twin articulating beds designed and proposed that act like zero-gravity loungers with infinite adjustment in three sections head, back and legs. I'm constantly adjusting mine including when I am sleeping if there is any front to back leveling adjustment or sometimes I slightly elevate my legs or my back which seems to alleviate a stuffy nose. My wife uses hers entirely different than me. Either one of us can sleep while the other adjust to read a book.

My first three vans I have had the holy grail of seeking two zone living when you are on the road a long time with few conversions of space. It is down to turning the cab seats around and with the 144 I will have more space yet to turn the seats around without facing a tall wall with no window. I will still have a full kitchen at my wife's request and a more luxurious space bathroom. This design has been percolating since our 2012 trip to Alaska.

Given that we will be going to a 144" wheel based Sprinter 5 foot less than we currently have, I can't see a bed that dominates over half the interior square footage. So I am stacking them bunk bed style and taking up 26% of the floor space beyond the B pillar and getting a 30" bed width instead of a 27" with a narrow aisle between for twins in a Sprinter. The bunks don't have enough depth vertically to duplicate my articulating beds so will give that idea up. We will gain privacy with walls both sides of the bed and foot so one can read while the other sleeps. Also, they are dedicated beds we can keep made up. I'm still undecided about articulation which would be manual something like this Ikea slat bed is narrow enough vertically if I did it.

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Old 05-08-2020, 01:34 AM   #42
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The Tri-fold electric sofa/bed developed by Martin Geurts founder of Great West Vans was the best ....................
Why was it the best?
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Old 05-08-2020, 02:56 AM   #43
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Why was it the best?
I have to throw my support to this one.
The GWV tri-fold bed is a minor wonder. The beauty of it is that it combines a clear-span design (i.e., it does not touch the floor at any point) with the ability for it to slide forward on it's wall-mounted tracks while in couch mode, providing huge amounts of rear storage when needed. It is comfortable both as a seat and as a bed, converts to a bed at the touch of a switch, has 3-point seat-belts (and an automatic safety latching mechanism), and can be adjusted for backrest tilt.

It is quite elegant.
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Old 05-08-2020, 03:15 AM   #44
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I have to throw my support to this one.
The GWV tri-fold bed is a minor wonder. The beauty of it is that it combines a clear-span design (i.e., it does not touch the floor at any point) with the ability for it to slide forward on it's wall-mounted tracks while in couch mode, providing huge amounts of rear storage when needed. It is comfortable both as a seat and as a bed, converts to a bed at the touch of a switch, has 3-point seat-belts (and an automatic safety latching mechanism), and can be adjusted for backrest tilt.

It is quite elegant.
Any sofa bed with panels riding on the wall mounted rails is tough to beat in simplicity, size or storage. But it can only be done on full width bed which would take too much real-estate for a shorter van. So, it indeed could be the best for 170 WB, but am not sure about shorter vans.

Most if not all Rock and roll sofa bed I have seen are narrower than a van to allow some cabinetry and some could be the best for shorter van.

If I would do another 144WB conversion this would be my choice currently available in USA, I would call it the best.

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Old 05-08-2020, 03:24 AM   #45
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Here is another example of a crush tested rock&roll bed imported from France by Ken in his DIY Sprinter Conversion. https://ourkaravan.com/

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Old 06-15-2020, 01:01 AM   #46
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Davydd,
Do you have a post that you could point me to that details your design plans?
Thank you,
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Old 06-15-2020, 02:00 AM   #47
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Rowie,
Was the SIKA adesive you used
"Sikaflex- 295UV: UV resistant non-chalking moisture cure polyurethane adhesive/sealant: Bonding adhesive for polycarbonate and acrylic windows"
The company has an amazing variety of adhesives for all sorts of applications.
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Old 06-15-2020, 02:26 AM   #48
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Rowie,
Was the SIKA adesive you used
"Sikaflex- 295UV: UV resistant non-chalking moisture cure polyurethane adhesive/sealant: Bonding adhesive for polycarbonate and acrylic windows"
The company has an amazing variety of adhesives for all sorts of applications.
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I believe your question is intended for tgregg instead of me (I probably had his "quote" in my reply). But I've heard only good things about Sika products and I've used their products around my home with success.
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Old 06-15-2020, 11:30 AM   #49
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Davydd,
Do you have a post that you could point me to that details your design plans?
Thank you,
Walk in His Peace,
Scribe With a Stylus
This is the general idea. This is a view sitting in the turned around driver's seat as I envision it. Other than that ARV hasn't started on it so I don't know if it will change much. I gave them my plan to execute. The van has been delivered to their shop. So stay tuned.

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Old 06-15-2020, 12:40 PM   #50
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I believe your question is intended for tgregg instead of me (I probably had his "quote" in my reply). But I've heard only good things about Sika products and I've used their products around my home with success.
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Rowie,
Was the SIKA adesive you used
"Sikaflex- 295UV: UV resistant non-chalking moisture cure polyurethane adhesive/sealant: Bonding adhesive for polycarbonate and acrylic windows"
The company has an amazing variety of adhesives for all sorts of applications.
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Yes.

I also purchased the SIKA activator 100 and the SIKA primer 209N as specified by the SIKA 295 UV product data sheet.

https://usa.sika.com/dms/getdocument...%20information.
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Old 06-30-2020, 01:15 AM   #51
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Davydd,
Thank you. As I recall from years ago (so the recall may be wrong) you work with 2D Mac software. Out of curiousity, which package did you use and how did you convert it to such a nice 3D diagram?
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Old 06-30-2020, 01:30 AM   #52
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RowieBowie,
Thank you for the redirection.

tgregg
Thank you for the prompt reply with the asked for information.

Walk in His Peace, and 6 feet away : - )
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Old 06-30-2020, 01:43 PM   #53
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Davydd,
Thank you. As I recall from years ago (so the recall may be wrong) you work with 2D Mac software. Out of curiousity, which package did you use and how did you convert it to such a nice 3D diagram?
Walk in His Peace,
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Scribe,

Years ago, the 1980s, I was the forum leader for the Mac Graphic & CAD Forum on AOL. I used or tested about every 2D and 3D program in existence at the time. I was partial to 3D programs where you can easily interactively draw with and 2D where you can see in real time without printing out, WYSIWYG, or What You See Is What You Get (screen or print.) After all, I had 30 years prior experience putting pen to paper successfully.

In 2D I was an early advocate of PowerCadd by Engineered Software out of NC. It is remarkably very powerful and still in existence but haven't kept up with 64 bit Macintosh OS. Recently I settled on MacDraft Pro (PC Draft on Windows) with a company out of England, Microspot, which can do most of what PowerCadd can do. MacDraft got its early development in the United States spawned from Apple's MacDraw program as was PowerCadd.

For 3D I work in edges and surfaces rather than solids. I find it easier and more intuitive and closer to the way I think. That is why I settled on SketchUp Pro. I could probably use it for all my 2D and 3D needs. But if you start out with just plans and work through many design options all you need is 2D without the 3D baggage. But once I honed in on a design I had to see it in 3D. The illustration I posted above was just a selected view of a full 3D model captured as a JPEG and then enhanced in photo rendering programs.

If I get a green light from ARV, saying they can execute my design, I will document Mies "Less is more" like I did in Advancing Alvar. That's why I say stay tuned.
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Old 06-30-2020, 02:02 PM   #54
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This is the general idea. This is a view sitting in the turned around driver's seat as I envision it. Other than that ARV hasn't started on it so I don't know if it will change much. I gave them my plan to execute. The van has been delivered to their shop. So stay tuned.


Very interesting, I see this is a view from the front to the rear. If so, what happened to the necessity of having the kitchen on the passenger side?


Also looks a lot like the "old" Roadtrek aisle bathroom design or is there a shower to the right of the toilet?


Who gets to climb to the upper bunk? I don't think that could be sold in our house
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Old 06-30-2020, 02:39 PM   #55
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Old 07-02-2020, 01:52 PM   #56
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Very interesting, I see this is a view from the front to the rear. If so, what happened to the necessity of having the kitchen on the passenger side?


Also looks a lot like the "old" Roadtrek aisle bathroom design or is there a shower to the right of the toilet?


Who gets to climb to the upper bunk? I don't think that could be sold in our house
The video of our impromptu mockup with the bunk beds answers the question. Nancy wants the upper bunk with the skylight but I had to convince her. The height is 50" and it is way simpler to get into than those pop up sleeper vans like Sportsmobile and maybe those back end climb in hiked up beds with under bed garage storage popular with short vans. A curtain can enclose the opening kind of like a train pullman situation. We already got used to twin beds with our current articulating beds. This will give us privacy to read in bed without disturbing the other. I'm losing my articulation which I use a lot and maybe will have a similar solution yet for the lower bunk.

The bathroom is not an aisle situation like the Roadtrek. It is actually a totally enclosed bathroom measuring in plan 31" x 38" ample enough to shower. The best sprinters with aisles front to back have bathrooms about 25" wide. ARV has a design where the bathroom door is a Dutch door so the shower curtain can billow out at shoulder/head height. I won't need that but could install it.

Totally different concept with the galley on the driver's side than the Roadtrek. Roadtreks and Airstreams you have to traverse a narrow aisle to get to the back of the van as narrow as 19" when you have tall cabinets on both sides of the aisle. The galley on the driver's side is less desired than on the passenger side but short vans can't optimize this. The plus is I have more galley than any short van I ever saw and a microwave and refrigerator at the correct height without bending over, squating down or getting on your knees to access. I guess it was a worthwhile trade off.

Technically I don't have a pass through aisle to get anywhere but to the bathroom door which narrows down to 23" wide at a dead end alcove. Between the bed and tall refrigerator cabinet and the galley counter it is 29". The area at the sliding door and to the galley in front of the turned around cab seats with two Lagun tables is 54". Two tables of about TV tray size allows sit down in seating without the "after you" slide over.

I haven't done the numbers but I think I can get everything in this van that I could in an extended van five feet longer. Storage is vertically arranged behind bathroom is 27 cubic feet way more than back sofa/beds and I can get two bicycles inside. Batteries inside the van under the bed can be as much as 844ah of lithium ion.
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Old 07-02-2020, 02:10 PM   #57
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The video of our impromptu mockup with the bunk beds answers the question. Nancy wants the upper bunk with the skylight but I had to convince her. The height is 50" and it is way simpler to get into than those pop up sleeper vans like Sportsmobile and maybe those back end climb in hiked up beds with under bed garage storage popular with short vans. A curtain can enclose the opening kind of like a train pullman situation. We already got used to twin beds with our current articulating beds. This will give us privacy to read in bed without disturbing the other. I'm losing my articulation which I use a lot and maybe will have a similar solution yet for the lower bunk.

The bathroom is not an aisle situation like the Roadtrek. It is actually a totally enclosed bathroom measuring in plan 31" x 38" ample enough to shower. The best sprinters with aisles front to back have bathrooms about 25" wide. ARV has a design where the bathroom door is a Dutch door so the shower curtain can billow out at shoulder/head height. I won't need that but could install it.

Totally different concept with the galley on the driver's side than the Roadtrek. Roadtreks and Airstreams you have to traverse a narrow aisle to get to the back of the van as narrow as 19" when you have tall cabinets on both sides of the aisle. The galley on the driver's side is less desired than on the passenger side but short vans can't optimize this. The plus is I have more galley than any short van I ever saw and a microwave and refrigerator at the correct height without bending over, squating down or getting on your knees to access. I guess it was a worthwhile trade off.

Technically I don't have a pass through aisle to get anywhere but to the bathroom door which narrows down to 23" wide at a dead end alcove. Between the bed and tall refrigerator cabinet and the galley counter it is 29". The area at the sliding door and to the galley in front of the turned around cab seats with two Lagun tables is 54". Two tables of about TV tray size allows sit down in seating without the "after you" slide over.

I haven't done the numbers but I think I can get everything in this van that I could in an extended van five feet longer. Storage is vertically arranged behind bathroom is 27 cubic feet way more than back sofa/beds and I can get two bicycles inside. Batteries inside the van under the bed can be as much as 844ah of lithium ion.

So the bathroom is long for and aft and the toilet in the rear. The table messes up the perspective as you can't see the lower part of the all the bathroom floor.


Actually, the kitchen looks quite similar to Roadrek if you put a cabinet in instead of table. I am talking about the non Sprinter ones like the Chevies, except you cabinets are higher off the counter.



The big thing with the wall of ceiling height cabinets is in a lot B's that have big bathrooms, regardless of which side it one, as it ties up one entire wall. A longer van with a slider usually leaves an opening that add open feel, but often the passenger side is solid from the driver seat to bed in the back. What we have found, having a claustrophobe in the house is that, on the Chevy, we have the open area of the entry on one side, then the open of window and space over the counter on the other side, and then both sides open up in the rear. No problem for her that way, but a solid one side wall is an issue. Never sealed up on side for a long ways, so to speak, and this is also what you look to have. It seems to take space and light to make a big difference, so the kitchen window is a necessity, even though it is much smaller than you show.


We are just a bit over 20' long, so not much longer than you will be, and it is plenty of room for us.
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Old 07-02-2020, 09:50 PM   #58
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So the bathroom is long for and aft and the toilet in the rear. The table messes up the perspective as you can't see the lower part of the all the bathroom floor.
The bathroom is 31" fore and aft and 38" side to side.
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