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Old 03-03-2021, 02:42 PM   #1
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Default MSRP vs Actual Selling Price

Iíve been reading these pages for a couple of months, and joined today. Thanks for all the great information!

What (I think) Iíve learned is most vehicles sell for 20 - 30% less than MSRP (ďNot these days,Ē the salesmen say).

Question 1: Is that still generally true?

Iím narrowing my search to a TRAVATO or a Leisure Travel Vans Wonder. Just for fun, I used the LTV online pricing guide to build my own rig. It came out around $130K, MSRP. I reached out to a dealer asking what the actual price sales price was, out the door, and he said $134K. He claims they sell at MSRP plus $4K for freight and prep. And it will take around 34 months to get one.

Question 2: Is that claim true?
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Old 03-03-2021, 03:31 PM   #2
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Winnebago models traditionally have high MSRP pricing that discounts 25-30% at competitive retail levels. However Covid driven RV demand has trimmed those discounts recently.

LTV follows a different pricing model with MSRP pretty close to street pricing. No surprise that LTV dealers are demanding MSRP+ during the current RV boom. LTV has had significant wait times in recent years, so you may want to confirm actual times with the factory, but no surprise it would be lengthy.
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Old 03-03-2021, 04:02 PM   #3
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I think if you custom order, especially 34 months down the line, you are not going to get a deal. No one can predict the value of RVs nearly 3 years away. Plus, they got you by the balls if you are willing to wait that long. If you bought from dealer stock to drive away that day you can negotiate. I'm hearing that is rarely the case right now but if that is the case, the standard you are reading of 25-30% off may not hold in a seller's market. I think too, the 25-30% off reports are from people who fell into a good deal by unusual circumstance luck and have bragging rights. Historically, 15-20% probably is more realistic in a buyer's market.
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Old 03-03-2021, 04:44 PM   #4
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MichaelB, Demand exceeds supply for new and used LTV units. If you're a Facebook user, join https://www.facebook.com/groups/1252700688175363
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Old 03-03-2021, 05:20 PM   #5
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In the 1980s, there was a period of time where Japanese semi-luxury cars such as the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord were in incredibly high demand. I once stopped at a Honda dealer and looked at some Accords. The factory sticker had a $2000 line item labeled "Extra dealer profit". I swear that this is true. This was the highest level of honesty I have ever seen in the automotive industry.

Supply and demand always have the last word.
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Old 03-03-2021, 05:33 PM   #6
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COVID caused a strong spike in demand for RVs in general, and especially vans as self-contained travel vehicles. At the same time, increased e-commerce spiked demand for delivery vans, and some upfitters experienced production interruptions in the early part of 2020. Kind of a perfect storm, really.

For the time being, demand remains high and inventories are very thin as we head into peak summer travel season. It is a seller's market and normal discounting is out the window. I doubt we'll ever see pre-COVID prices again. At some point pre-COVID discounting practices will return on mass-market models as dealer inventories rebuild, but I expect higher MSRPs will partially offset the discounts.

That is not to say you can't find a decent deal out there, but I think you'll have to be pretty flexible on model and willing to travel to get it.
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Old 03-04-2021, 02:39 AM   #7
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The supply/demand relationship between the dealer and consumer is definitely in the wholesaler’s favor.

I have heard that some outfitters want in on that action and aren’t simply satisfied with increasing their volume (and some can’t even significantly increase their volume), and so they will be increasing their prices to the dealers confidant that their units will still sell and that it’s still worthwhile for the dealer to carry their product. That is one factor that could keep prices high.

Also, RV manufacturers rely on a reputation and track record which effectively means there is a barrier of entry for new manufacturers to emerge. Would you drop $100k+ on an unproven product?

Also, a purely profit driven company like Winnebago who is beholden to its shareholders is more able and more driven to increase production quickly within an assembly line operation. Their prices may remain relatively low when compared to a company like PleasureWay (and perhaps Leisure Travel) that focuses on quality craftsmanship where vans are built in stalls rather than on a modular assembly line. These latter companies are also more focused on stable profit over rapid growth, so there is a risk to expanding operations with more buildings, training more craftsman, and a risk to quality upon which their reputation is based when the industry may see a sudden downturn. If I were in their shoes, I’d simply take advantage of higher demand by charging dealers an extra $10k per unit. Easy profit with no risk related to expansion. That means consumers won’t be seeing the usual 10-20% off MSRP.
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Old 03-04-2021, 02:24 PM   #8
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People ordering the Winnebago EKKO that goes into production soon have been finding discounts in the 25% area from many dealers...
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Old 03-04-2021, 03:52 PM   #9
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For years the better Class B units (GWV, LTV, RT, PW) have sold from 12-18% off MSRP. Winnebago is the outlier, where dealers jack up the MSRP numbers and then taa daa... we will give you 25-30% off.

LTV no longer makes any B's, only their small high quality Class C rigs. When these units took off in popularity soon after the 2008 recession, the discounts gradually disappeared as the wait lists for new units grew. It was up over a year for some time and it is nearly impossible to ever find one on a lot. So I am not at all surprised that dealers are selling MSRP+. By the way, LTV does use the assembly line system. I have visited the factory and that isn't a bad thing when you have a well trained, highly skilled crew, and enforced systems that aren't dependent on a corporation's stock prices and profits. Family owned is still the best. (like LTV and PW)

Right now high demand means that the dealer lots are empty, so there is little incentive to give big discounts. Plus factories are backed up because of problems getting parts. They are all having problems getting fridges, for instance.

So, this isn't the time to expect big discounts on most of the better products. If price matters a lot, best to haunt the used market websites.
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Old 03-04-2021, 04:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
Iíve been reading these pages for a couple of months, and joined today. Thanks for all the great information!

What (I think) Iíve learned is most vehicles sell for 20 - 30% less than MSRP (ďNot these days,Ē the salesmen say).

Question 1: Is that still generally true?

Iím narrowing my search to a TRAVATO or a Leisure Travel Vans Wonder. Just for fun, I used the LTV online pricing guide to build my own rig. It came out around $130K, MSRP. I reached out to a dealer asking what the actual price sales price was, out the door, and he said $134K. He claims they sell at MSRP plus $4K for freight and prep. And it will take around 34 months to get one.

Question 2: Is that claim true?
Hereís my two cents...

You will have a much easier time finding a Travato. More of those are built and also winnebago is more able to ramp up production to meet demand. You will also have an easier time perceiving a ďdealĒ. But ultimately, itís up to you to evaluate the value you are getting for your dollar and which rig will meet your needs best. Personally, if I had a preference for an LTV and wasnít in a hurry to start adventuring, I would actively keep my eyes open for available units. The fact is that orders fall through when buyers step away. You will want to identify where that type of information tends to get posted and shared, like on a specific Facebook group. You can also try establishing relationships with dealerships to signal your high interest should a unit become available. But since the LTV rigs largely sell themselves, I wouldnít count on salesmen reaching out to you. You may want to reach out every two weeks until they really remember you.

If you settle on a Travato, your task will be much easier, and Iíd check with several dealers, get prices, and then do a round robin between the dealers to see if they would beat each otherís prices.

Good luck!
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Old 03-04-2021, 06:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mumkin View Post
For years the better Class B units (GWV, LTV, RT, PW) have sold from 12-18% off MSRP. Winnebago is the outlier, where dealers jack up the MSRP numbers and then taa daa... we will give you 25-30% off.

LTV no longer makes any B's, only their small high quality Class C rigs. When these units took off in popularity soon after the 2008 recession, the discounts gradually disappeared as the wait lists for new units grew. It was up over a year for some time and it is nearly impossible to ever find one on a lot. So I am not at all surprised that dealers are selling MSRP+. By the way, LTV does use the assembly line system. I have visited the factory and that isn't a bad thing when you have a well trained, highly skilled crew, and enforced systems that aren't dependent on a corporation's stock prices and profits. Family owned is still the best. (like LTV and PW)

Right now high demand means that the dealer lots are empty, so there is little incentive to give big discounts. Plus factories are backed up because of problems getting parts. They are all having problems getting fridges, for instance.

So, this isn't the time to expect big discounts on most of the better products. If price matters a lot, best to haunt the used market websites.
In the case of the EKKO, the MSRP is coming directly from Winnebago pricing sheets and the 25% is coming off of that MSRP. Hard for the dealer to fudge the MSRP in that case when Winnebago is the one setting it...
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Old 03-04-2021, 09:57 PM   #12
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I'd look at the Travato. There are several Facebook groups that you can join which have files and sections dedicated to what prices each rig is selling for. Plus, there is a lot larger base of very dedicated Travato people who can help you if you have any glitches in your rig.
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Old 03-05-2021, 02:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB View Post
And it will take around 34 months to get one.

Question 2: Is that claim true?
I just noticed this and also wonder if this claim is true. I suggest that you call Lake Region RV in Ramsey MN (763-421-1419) and ask for Seth. Ask him if that 34 month number is accurate. wow... 3 year wait for a new one?

They have a great relationship with LTV and even have both a Unity and a Wonder on their lot for show only... not for sale. It is one of the few dealerships that have one that you can look at... (and they have a pre-owned 2018 Wonder on their lot with a sale pending)
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Old 03-05-2021, 12:26 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mumkin View Post
I just noticed this and also wonder if this claim is true. I suggest that you call Lake Region RV in Ramsey MN (763-421-1419) and ask for Seth. Ask him if that 34 month number is accurate. wow... 3 year wait for a new one?

They have a great relationship with LTV and even have both a Unity and a Wonder on their lot for show only... not for sale. It is one of the few dealerships that have one that you can look at... (and they have a pre-owned 2018 Wonder on their lot with a sale pending)
Is Seth the go to guy now? Dale retired and you can see that in his Facebook posts which are more now. He is acting like my brother.
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Old 03-05-2021, 03:22 PM   #15
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Is Seth the go to guy now? Dale retired and you can see that in his Facebook posts which are more now. He is acting like my brother.
I've worked with Seth since Dale pulled out of sales back in 2015, and he has now handed off most of the management at both his dealerships. Seth knows his products. And the good news is that Ted has come back in the service department.
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Old 03-12-2021, 01:21 PM   #16
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Hey, everybody! I wanted you to know I appreciate your comments and wisdom! It's not like Facebook where I can 'like' a comment, so I wanted to say Thanks!
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